The Politics Thread

[BWFC_Insane]

Another PM to be imposed on us. This time by 350 or so individuals.

General election now.

Well, at least the membership don't get to vote this time.

BTW, were you as indignant about it when GB was imposed upon us?

I wasn’t that indignant by a PM to replace Johnson being imposed on us. That happens.

The bit I’m indignant about and so is the country is the Tories have been an unmitigated disaster and the last month the worst piece of government we’ve ever endured the effect of which people will suffer with for years and beyond.

They’ve treated the country like playthings and time after time after time put their party ahead of our interests. Cameron started it with failed austerity, Brexit (which only happened due to the need to seal divided in his party), and it’s rolled on since.

They have failed and not just in the last month but over the last twelve years. 5 PMs in 6 years. Not two in 13.

[Bruce Rioja]

The issue, and why this is a disgrace, to borrow a phrase, is that there isn't a Tory who can command the confidence of the house, in the sense they can form a government and run the fecking country, but there's enough of them who would back them in a confidence vote because of their self interest and knowing they'd get pasted if there was an election.

I think a Sunak/Mordaunt pairing is their/our only hope in this disastrous scenario.

Anything else and I reckon I'll be shouting for a GE too.

[BWFC_Insane]

The issue, and why this is a disgrace, to borrow a phrase, is that there isn't a Tory who can command the confidence of the house, in the sense they can form a government and run the fecking country, but there's enough of them who would back them in a confidence vote because of their self interest and knowing they'd get pasted if there was an election.

I think a Sunak/Mordaunt pairing is their/our only hope in this disastrous scenario.

Anything else and I reckon I'll be shouting for a GE too.

Mordaunt who sat in Truss’ cabinet? Jeez. Sunak hated by a large proportion of the parliamentary party. Same old politics that’s failed for twelve years!

The only hope now is Keir Starmer. Someone who has a history of leadership and has a new agenda that is absolutely desperately needed.

[Prufrock]

The issue, and why this is a disgrace, to borrow a phrase, is that there isn't a Tory who can command the confidence of the house, in the sense they can form a government and run the fecking country, but there's enough of them who would back them in a confidence vote because of their self interest and knowing they'd get pasted if there was an election.

I think a Sunak/Mordaunt pairing is their/our only hope in this disastrous scenario.

Anything else and I reckon I'll be shouting for a GE too.

I can see that from a Parliamentary perspective, but another factor in this is both parties going down the daft route of giving the final say on the leader of the parliamentary party (i.e. MPs) to party members, not MPs.

So your Sunak/Morduant might (might) solve the parliamentary issue, but they've also both been explicitly rejected by the Tory party membership within the past 4 months.

And as a consequence I'm also less confident it fixes the Parliamentary party issue because MPs are going to have unhappy constituency members in their ears 24/7.

Maybe I'm wrong on the above, but I suspect there is no possible Tory MP who could govern.

[Hoboh]

The issue, and why this is a disgrace, to borrow a phrase, is that there isn't a Tory who can command the confidence of the house, in the sense they can form a government and run the fecking country, but there's enough of them who would back them in a confidence vote because of their self interest and knowing they'd get pasted if there was an election.

I think a Sunak/Mordaunt pairing is their/our only hope in this disastrous scenario.

Anything else and I reckon I'll be shouting for a GE too.

Mordaunt who sat in Truss’ cabinet? Jeez. Sunak hated by a large proportion of the parliamentary party. Same old politics that’s failed for twelve years!

The only hope now is Keir Starmer. Someone who has a history of leadership and has a new agenda that is absolutely desperately needed.

Oh dear, oh dear you really believe that don't you.

You seriously think labour has crushed the rabid left in their party? all they are doing is sitting quietly in the corner waiting for Starmer to get them in power, has the largest most influential group in there momentum simply vanished? His right hand little miss doc marts is there because of them, they tried Corbyn and that failed so now it's time biding, sit and wait. Would not suprise me in the least if they win Corbyn rejoins the party, all the background people in the local constituency party are of that ilk.
Tories are toast and rightly so but pining hopes on a new labour revival is pie in the sky Starmer and the few decent moderates will never keep the tide of the left at bay, they ain't strong enough.

Said it before and I'll say it again, you cannot trust politicians now heard much from Bolton Wests Labour MP recently?

[Hoboh]

The issue, and why this is a disgrace, to borrow a phrase, is that there isn't a Tory who can command the confidence of the house, in the sense they can form a government and run the fecking country, but there's enough of them who would back them in a confidence vote because of their self interest and knowing they'd get pasted if there was an election.

I think a Sunak/Mordaunt pairing is their/our only hope in this disastrous scenario.

Anything else and I reckon I'll be shouting for a GE too.

I can see that from a Parliamentary perspective, but another factor in this is both parties going down the daft route of giving the final say on the leader of the parliamentary party (i.e. MPs) to party members, not MPs.

So your Sunak/Morduant might (might) solve the parliamentary issue, but they've also both been explicitly rejected by the Tory party membership within the past 4 months.

And as a consequence I'm also less confident it fixes the Parliamentary party issue because MPs are going to have unhappy constituency members in their ears 24/7.

Maybe I'm wrong on the above, but I suspect there is no possible Tory MP who could govern.

Any prospective Tory leader with any sense will suddenly find 101 reasons why they cannot do it at the moment, opening doors using the handle in Russia would be safer.

[BWFC_Insane]

The issue, and why this is a disgrace, to borrow a phrase, is that there isn't a Tory who can command the confidence of the house, in the sense they can form a government and run the fecking country, but there's enough of them who would back them in a confidence vote because of their self interest and knowing they'd get pasted if there was an election.

I think a Sunak/Mordaunt pairing is their/our only hope in this disastrous scenario.

Anything else and I reckon I'll be shouting for a GE too.

I can see that from a Parliamentary perspective, but another factor in this is both parties going down the daft route of giving the final say on the leader of the parliamentary party (i.e. MPs) to party members, not MPs.

So your Sunak/Morduant might (might) solve the parliamentary issue, but they've also both been explicitly rejected by the Tory party membership within the past 4 months.

And as a consequence I'm also less confident it fixes the Parliamentary party issue because MPs are going to have unhappy constituency members in their ears 24/7.

Maybe I'm wrong on the above, but I suspect there is no possible Tory MP who could govern.

They can govern by muddling along and playing party games rather than acting in the country’s interest for a while. But this is the problem I have.

Until the Tory party is rid of their extremists like JRM or the ERG or Braverman etc….until they are actively pushed out the party can’t ever be the centre ground one nation Tory party it needs to be in the interests of the country. And you see those sorts of Tories having in the leadership election try and meekly pander to those extremists because they are so prevalent in the backbenches and membership.

And I don’t think any potential next PM is capable of standing up to those types because to do so would put the Tory party at risk but be far better for the country.

So it’s a decade plus of party first. You don’t have to like Thatcher and boy I did not but she was the opposite. Country first (again not saying her policies worked for the country but not the issue) and stand up against those in her party who didn’t agree.

Like Labour under Corbyn you cannot unite the wings of the party anymore because the extremists have grown too large to be hived off into a corner and ignored like they were for two decades. The ONTs are too few to really coalesce around someone and the 2019 entrants don’t know what they are or stand for or even in many cases seem to really believe in much beyond their own survival.

The party needs to lose an election and then have that internal squabble and fight in opposition because Christ knows we can’t afford it now and frankly haven’t been able to for some time.

[Worthy4England]

Nowt new there, Hobes, I haven't trusted politicians, pretty much all my life.

The counter to the rabid left, is who is going to control the rabid right? Have the ERG suddenly disappeared? Who's paying for all the idiots in 55 Tufton Street and the IEA (who tried to compare themselves to Oxfam on a TV interview)? When are we going to stop unelected people like Aaron Banks control the right wing's narrative, just because he's rich?

[BWFC_Insane]

The issue, and why this is a disgrace, to borrow a phrase, is that there isn't a Tory who can command the confidence of the house, in the sense they can form a government and run the fecking country, but there's enough of them who would back them in a confidence vote because of their self interest and knowing they'd get pasted if there was an election.

I think a Sunak/Mordaunt pairing is their/our only hope in this disastrous scenario.

Anything else and I reckon I'll be shouting for a GE too.

I can see that from a Parliamentary perspective, but another factor in this is both parties going down the daft route of giving the final say on the leader of the parliamentary party (i.e. MPs) to party members, not MPs.

So your Sunak/Morduant might (might) solve the parliamentary issue, but they've also both been explicitly rejected by the Tory party membership within the past 4 months.

And as a consequence I'm also less confident it fixes the Parliamentary party issue because MPs are going to have unhappy constituency members in their ears 24/7.

Maybe I'm wrong on the above, but I suspect there is no possible Tory MP who could govern.

Any prospective Tory leader with any sense will suddenly find 101 reasons why they cannot do it at the moment, opening doors using the handle in Russia would be safer.

Long time ago a place I worked was going down the Swanee and I remember the CFO or some such leaving and the incredulity that they actually advertised for a replacement for a position that in all likelihood would not last another year, and someone remarking ‘anyone internal who applies for that is absolutely the wrong person for that job’. And we laughed. Until said remarked applied and got the job….he lasted 4 months….

[Worthy4England]

Telegraph and Times both carrying stories Johnson will stand (not really that surprising.)

I think if he does, they'll all forget that they voted him out...

[BWFC_Insane]

Telegraph and Times both carrying stories Johnson will stand (not really that surprising.)

I think if he does, they'll all forget that they voted him out...

I don’t really think they could. Firstly they got rid of him because he was deeply unpopular with voters. He may have a rabid following but they’d had the worst run of polls on a long basis which is why they got rid. They also had many resignations and lots of MPs saying he had to go.

If he is the new leader then it’s an absolute end of their party I think. They would just split and fracture, whilst trying to govern.

Already Tory MPs are briefing they will defect if it’s him.

I think it will be Mordaunt on the basis that Sunak is too divisive. Mordaunt clearly isn’t suitable after her initially promising but then disastrous under pressure bid last time but I suspect she’s the only one (unless Wallace stands) who can command enough MP support to get to a members ballot should they actually be bonkers enough to go through with that.


There are wildcards like the thoroughly unpleasant sorts like Braverman or Badenoch who I guess could get to members and win. But neither know what they are doing at all and very obviously don’t and I suspect (though I’m willing to be shocked) that Tory MPs won’t fancy such a wildcard in current circumstances.

Mordaunt is no good. I think she’s probably just least offensive to their two wings bar Wallace who still looks like he might not want it.

The other factor is you have an unsackable chancellor in Hunt who is a Cameron one nation Tory and seems to be prepared to go rogue. Meaning it will be very very hard for someone outside that ilk to do much.

[Worthy4England]

Well you wouldn't have thought they'd have elected a "tax giveaway" PM when it was clear we're pretty fcuking skint. But they did...and initially applauded the budget, before the markets told them it was fooked (which didn't take long)...

A week's a long time etc...

[BWFC_Insane]

Well you wouldn't have thought they'd have elected a "tax giveaway" PM when it was clear we're pretty fcuking skint. But they did...and initially applauded the budget, before the markets told them it was fooked (which didn't take long)...

A week's a long time etc...

Yeah. Rule nothing out. But Johnson would be disastrous for them. And they are the self preservation party…so…..and I get they went for Truss….but yeah. I can’t see it - obviously different if he gets to members but then if he does I reckon they will instantly lose their majority. Loads of those MPs couldn’t serve in any sort of good faith.

[Harry Genshaw]

I didn't think we could get worse than Johnson until Truss came along. I'd be fairly confident that they couldn't do worse this time but then I hear Braverman being mentioned. She sounds way too dim for any member to vote for her but then I thought that about Truss.

If we're not having a GE then Mordant/Sunak is about as good as we could hope for I reckon.

[BWFC_Insane]

https://twitter.com/ionewells/status/15 ... HbndrNc-_Q

[Bruce Rioja]

Mordaunt who sat in Truss’ cabinet? Jeez. Sunak hated by a large proportion of the parliamentary party. Same old politics that’s failed for twelve years!

It didn't say I expect to see it happen, I said, quite clearly, I thought, that that's my preference.

Further - being sat in someone's cabinet doesn't automatically tar them with the same brush of ineptitude.

[Worthy4England]

Well you wouldn't have thought they'd have elected a "tax giveaway" PM when it was clear we're pretty fcuking skint. But they did...and initially applauded the budget, before the markets told them it was fooked (which didn't take long)...

A week's a long time etc...

Yeah. Rule nothing out. But Johnson would be disastrous for them. And they are the self preservation party…so…..and I get they went for Truss….but yeah. I can’t see it - obviously different if he gets to members but then if he does I reckon they will instantly lose their majority. Loads of those MPs couldn’t serve in any sort of good faith.

The balance is, whether they think the members (and Tory voting public) would buy it, better than anything else they could offer, in an economic environment that will likely still look tough in 2 years. There were lots of people I know, who still had Johnson down as best of a bad bunch and they aren't voting for Starmer any time soon no matter how bad it gets as "the other lot" will always be worse.

[Worthy4England]

Mind the announcement that any candidates would need 100 nominations, might scupper it somewhat...

There were only 3 passed 100 on the last election - Sunak, Mordaunt and Truss and to be fair, the looney right had to vote for one of their own and she was the last one standing...

[BWFC_Insane]

Mordaunt who sat in Truss’ cabinet? Jeez. Sunak hated by a large proportion of the parliamentary party. Same old politics that’s failed for twelve years!

It didn't say I expect to see it happen, I said, quite clearly, I thought, that that's my preference.

Further - being sat in someone's cabinet doesn't automatically tar them with the same brush of ineptitude.

The problem I have with anyone in the cabinet is they all supported the policies. And only worried when the markets crashed and everyone was condemned to hundreds of pounds on their mortgages and rents for the next decade.

There are two options. Either they are as dense as Truss. Or spineless enough to go along with it just to grab onto power.

Sunak is obviously best equipped to lead the country - in the Tory party. But some elements of the party hate him. So what mandate would he have really?

Mordaunt is most likely for me but for reasons above it wouldn’t be satisfactory and she’d be a continuation of the failed policies.

The fact for me is that however you cut it right now the Tories are disastrous for this country. We desperately need two parties in the centre ground with ideas and some sense of shape. I only see Labour there and realistically that won’t change till the Tories reform and they can’t do that in power. You only need to see some of their MPs championing Johnson’s return and others saying they will defect if that happens. You can’t reconcile that madness.

[Hoboh]

Oh for a decent centrist party with people who work for, the people.