creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

[Worthy4England]

I think your read is correct in that they want to play entertaining cricket as part of the journey. That's brave face if ever I've seen it, all day long. We enforced the follow-on, which broadly says, "we don't think we'll need to bother batting again"...

[BWFC_Insane]

I think your read is correct in that they want to play entertaining cricket as part of the journey. That's brave face if ever I've seen it, all day long. We enforced the follow-on, which broadly says, "we don't think we'll need to bother batting again"...

I genuinely don't think it is. He also talked about Jimmy walking off smiling and that being 'validation for what we're doing'.

Seriously don't think they think how you or I do about it. They want to win. But I think they are placing other criteria in the mix and that's just a very different approach. We'll see over time.

[Worthy4England]

I doubt they'd have been as jaunty had they lost the last 6 in close fought games...I think the main purpose would then come to the fore...

[Prufrock]

I think they're pleased to be involved in those sort of games but only because over the long term they think it's the best way to win. You can take losing one like that as part of the process, but not if it's not the right way to win over the long term.

[Worthy4England]

I think they're pleased to be involved in those sort of games but only because over the long term they think it's the best way to win. You can take losing one like that as part of the process, but not if it's not the right way to win over the long term.

Yes. In amidst 5 wins on the bounce, you lose one close one, much easier to be magnanimous. I wonder what they'd have said about Rooty had he said this after our 1 win in 17 runs...I doubt Insano would be saying "you could see what he was trying to do!"

[TANGODANCER]

Yes. In amidst 5 wins on the bounce, you lose one close one, much easier to be magnanimous. I wonder what they'd have said about Rooty had he said this after our 1 win in 17 runs...I doubt Insano would be saying "you could see what he was trying to do!"

"Mag-Nanimous" Didn't she run a Vegan cafe outside Lords at one time?

[BWFC_Insane]

I think they're pleased to be involved in those sort of games but only because over the long term they think it's the best way to win. You can take losing one like that as part of the process, but not if it's not the right way to win over the long term.

Yes. In amidst 5 wins on the bounce, you lose one close one, much easier to be magnanimous. I wonder what they'd have said about Rooty had he said this after our 1 win in 17 runs...I doubt Insano would be saying "you could see what he was trying to do!"

Root and Silverwood weren't doing that though were they? They weren't playing a brand of cricket that everyone wants to watch nor did they extend their mission to revitalising test cricket as a spectacle.

I mean I'm about the result. But I don't honestly think that's all Stokes or McCullum care about. They are wired differently. That might be problematic in an ashes series. I heard bumble this morning on the declaration 'Stokes won't do that again' - I beg to differ - he will - and will smile if they lose again.

[TANGODANCER]

Bolton are playing tonight. I'm sure both captains have agreed to have a jolly good entertaining game and it won't matter who loses as both sides are sure to get a great crowd reception at the end. Oh I love sport..

[Worthy4England]

Bolton are playing tonight. I'm sure both captains have agreed to have a jolly good entertaining game and it won't matter who loses as both sides are sure to get a great crowd reception at the end. Oh I love sport..

Quite.

[BWFC_Insane]

Bolton are playing tonight. I'm sure both captains have agreed to have a jolly good entertaining game and it won't matter who loses as both sides are sure to get a great crowd reception at the end. Oh I love sport..

Quite.

Ian Evatt (or Mousinho) isn't trying to save football as a spectacle though is he? And McCullum has said that is one thing he wants to do with test match cricket.

[Worthy4England]

I think they're pleased to be involved in those sort of games but only because over the long term they think it's the best way to win. You can take losing one like that as part of the process, but not if it's not the right way to win over the long term.

Yes. In amidst 5 wins on the bounce, you lose one close one, much easier to be magnanimous. I wonder what they'd have said about Rooty had he said this after our 1 win in 17 runs...I doubt Insano would be saying "you could see what he was trying to do!"

Root and Silverwood weren't doing that though were they? They weren't playing a brand of cricket that everyone wants to watch nor did they extend their mission to revitalising test cricket as a spectacle.

I mean I'm about the result. But I don't honestly think that's all Stokes or McCullum care about. They are wired differently. That might be problematic in an ashes series. I heard bumble this morning on the declaration 'Stokes won't do that again' - I beg to differ - he will - and will smile if they lose again.

You can get away with losing a couple, when you've won a good few, taken a couple against the head (so to speak) and having had a summer and early part of the winter, that in a number of games have set some wonderful records. It's fine under those circumstances (and I know you don't like losing games ) to say "It was a great spectacle" - but if you're trying to tell me that after making them follow on, the spectacle and mission to make good games of cricket, was somehow the desired outcome or that it was somehow more important to Stokes and McCullum than the possibility of a win, then that's where we disagree.

[Worthy4England]

Bolton are playing tonight. I'm sure both captains have agreed to have a jolly good entertaining game and it won't matter who loses as both sides are sure to get a great crowd reception at the end. Oh I love sport..

Quite.

Ian Evatt (or Mousinho) isn't trying to save football as a spectacle though is he? And McCullum has said that is one thing he wants to do with test match cricket.

If that's the one thing McCullum wants to do as his mission - then he shouldn't be coaching England and I'd happily wish him all the best in his new role, tomorrow.

[BWFC_Insane]

Bolton are playing tonight. I'm sure both captains have agreed to have a jolly good entertaining game and it won't matter who loses as both sides are sure to get a great crowd reception at the end. Oh I love sport..

Quite.

Ian Evatt (or Mousinho) isn't trying to save football as a spectacle though is he? And McCullum has said that is one thing he wants to do with test match cricket.

If that's the one thing McCullum wants to do as his mission - then he shouldn't be coaching England and I'd happily wish him all the best in his new role, tomorrow.

Don't get me wrong - he wants to win too. But a key part of his philosophy is risking everything for a win and ignoring playing for a draw.

That does two things - increases excitement - risks losing games like yesterday.

That's his view. He was preaching it to counties a while back as part of his job - to build that mindset into players from the ground up.

We can all disagree with it and it will as you and I have said come unstuck at points. But I don't think he'll change - whether anyone likes it or not.

[Prufrock]

To be part of that game was amazing. That is what you play test cricket for, to be in those moments.

It doesn't mean for a second we're not fussed about winning or losing. We are disappointed when we lose. We also love winning - it's something we will always give ourselves the best opportunity to do

If it doesn't work out that way, we'll hold our hands up and say the opposition were better than us, and New Zealand were better than us this week

[BWFC_Insane]

To be part of that game was amazing. That is what you play test cricket for, to be in those moments.

It doesn't mean for a second we're not fussed about winning or losing. We are disappointed when we lose. We also love winning - it's something we will always give ourselves the best opportunity to do

If it doesn't work out that way, we'll hold our hands up and say the opposition were better than us, and New Zealand were better than us this week

Right - my point is not that England don't care if they win - that would be absurd.

Its that they will carry on their high risk approach - regardless. Bumble saying 'Stokes won't do that again' - I'm going to bet the house he will. Because there is a mantra from McCullum and Stokes has bought into it.

There will be no - bat out a day to seal the Ashes - they'll simply try and win the game and take the risks that come with that.

The idea that they will start to suddenly take 'safe options' doesn't jive with anything McCullum or Stokes has said. They won't. And I think its going to be uncomfortable for some and take a lot of criticism. You already see it - lose a game and 'bad declaration, bad follow on decision etc'...but they won't change. They won't suddenly start trying to be more conventional.

[Worthy4England]

To be part of that game was amazing. That is what you play test cricket for, to be in those moments.

It doesn't mean for a second we're not fussed about winning or losing. We are disappointed when we lose. We also love winning - it's something we will always give ourselves the best opportunity to do

If it doesn't work out that way, we'll hold our hands up and say the opposition were better than us, and New Zealand were better than us this week

Great! That is all.

[Prufrock]

To be part of that game was amazing. That is what you play test cricket for, to be in those moments.

It doesn't mean for a second we're not fussed about winning or losing. We are disappointed when we lose. We also love winning - it's something we will always give ourselves the best opportunity to do

If it doesn't work out that way, we'll hold our hands up and say the opposition were better than us, and New Zealand were better than us this week

Right - my point is not that England don't care if they win - that would be absurd.

Its that they will carry on their high risk approach - regardless. Bumble saying 'Stokes won't do that again' - I'm going to bet the house he will. Because there is a mantra from McCullum and Stokes has bought into it.

There will be no - bat out a day to seal the Ashes - they'll simply try and win the game and take the risks that come with that.

The idea that they will start to suddenly take 'safe options' doesn't jive with anything McCullum or Stokes has said. They won't. And I think its going to be uncomfortable for some and take a lot of criticism. You already see it - lose a game and 'bad declaration, bad follow on decision etc'...but they won't change. They won't suddenly start trying to be more conventional.

I'm not sure it's as clear cut as that.

Firstly they're still learning this as they go. Wouldn't surprise me if next time Stokes batted again but on T20 mode for a bit and then went super aggressive in the field. It'll be "attack" but I don't think they'll think there's only one way of doing that and we might see them try a few things out.

Secondly, I'm not wholly convinced it will stand up in every circumstance.

Ashes first test, offered a draw or go for the win? Sure, they're going to attack. That seems pretty clear. 2-1 up in the 5th test with a day to chase a big total? I don't know. Maybe. But maybe not.

[BWFC_Insane]

To be part of that game was amazing. That is what you play test cricket for, to be in those moments.

It doesn't mean for a second we're not fussed about winning or losing. We are disappointed when we lose. We also love winning - it's something we will always give ourselves the best opportunity to do

If it doesn't work out that way, we'll hold our hands up and say the opposition were better than us, and New Zealand were better than us this week

Right - my point is not that England don't care if they win - that would be absurd.

Its that they will carry on their high risk approach - regardless. Bumble saying 'Stokes won't do that again' - I'm going to bet the house he will. Because there is a mantra from McCullum and Stokes has bought into it.

There will be no - bat out a day to seal the Ashes - they'll simply try and win the game and take the risks that come with that.

The idea that they will start to suddenly take 'safe options' doesn't jive with anything McCullum or Stokes has said. They won't. And I think its going to be uncomfortable for some and take a lot of criticism. You already see it - lose a game and 'bad declaration, bad follow on decision etc'...but they won't change. They won't suddenly start trying to be more conventional.

I'm not sure it's as clear cut as that.

Firstly they're still learning this as they go. Wouldn't surprise me if next time Stokes batted again but on T20 mode for a bit and then went super aggressive in the field. It'll be "attack" but I don't think they'll think there's only one way of doing that and we might see them try a few things out.

Secondly, I'm not wholly convinced it will stand up in every circumstance.

Ashes first test, offered a draw or go for the win? Sure, they're going to attack. That seems pretty clear. 2-1 up in the 5th test with a day to chase a big total? I don't know. Maybe. But maybe not.

Stokes already said follow on was right decision. We'll find out but the bit I know about McCullum he'd risk a 2-1 Ashes on the final day to try and win 3-1.

We'll see if he changes.

[Worthy4England]

To be part of that game was amazing. That is what you play test cricket for, to be in those moments.

It doesn't mean for a second we're not fussed about winning or losing. We are disappointed when we lose. We also love winning - it's something we will always give ourselves the best opportunity to do

If it doesn't work out that way, we'll hold our hands up and say the opposition were better than us, and New Zealand were better than us this week

Right - my point is not that England don't care if they win - that would be absurd.

Its that they will carry on their high risk approach - regardless. Bumble saying 'Stokes won't do that again' - I'm going to bet the house he will. Because there is a mantra from McCullum and Stokes has bought into it.

There will be no - bat out a day to seal the Ashes - they'll simply try and win the game and take the risks that come with that.

The idea that they will start to suddenly take 'safe options' doesn't jive with anything McCullum or Stokes has said. They won't. And I think its going to be uncomfortable for some and take a lot of criticism. You already see it - lose a game and 'bad declaration, bad follow on decision etc'...but they won't change. They won't suddenly start trying to be more conventional.

I'm not sure it's as clear cut as that.

Firstly they're still learning this as they go. Wouldn't surprise me if next time Stokes batted again but on T20 mode for a bit and then went super aggressive in the field. It'll be "attack" but I don't think they'll think there's only one way of doing that and we might see them try a few things out.

Secondly, I'm not wholly convinced it will stand up in every circumstance.

Ashes first test, offered a draw or go for the win? Sure, they're going to attack. That seems pretty clear. 2-1 up in the 5th test with a day to chase a big total? I don't know. Maybe. But maybe not.

I agree it's nowhere near as clear cut as it's being made out to be, without changing the underlying ethos. I think they will continue to let players play their most comfortable game. And that's fine. We're not turning Jimmy into Viv Richards, just by wishing it were so. As I understand it they want players to play their natural game and feel they're not going to be screwed for doing so. That doesn't mean Stokes swings from the arse every ball nor that Jimmy tries to fend off 2 overs if we need 2 to win. The notion that there's only one unadaptable mantra is nonsense.

[Worthy4England]

Lancy 302-1...Owd Keaton unbeaten on 124...