Snog, Marry, Avoid: Summer 2023 Transfer Window

[BWFC_Insane]

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/2 ... r-targets/

It feels as though missing out on Wilson and Baccus has significantly set us back. This feels less like working on a list and just hoping that some players become available.

[GhostoftheBok]

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/2 ... r-targets/

It feels as though missing out on Wilson and Baccus has significantly set us back. This feels less like working on a list and just hoping that some players become available.

Just seems like a realistic assessment, no?

If we want top Championship talent most of the lads we want will end up in the Championship. So if we have a list of a dozen players we're hoping only some of them get the move they want the we can then get the others.

If there are lads from the Premier League we want then they're unlikely to immediately jump at our offer of not a huge amount of money in League One.

If Paris Maghoma is after a move this summer he'll stay on the tour of the USA with Brentford until his agent tells him it's time to make a decision. It sounds like we're after players like Maghoma, Weir, etc. Which is exactly where we should be looking if we can get there.

[officer_dibble]

That’s what I thought but without the name check! The very few great free transfer opportunities go straight away, then you have to wait for players on the fringes of better and bigger clubs to become available. As long as they are through the door in August and we don’t wait until it’s too late in January that’s fine…

[BWFC_Insane]

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/2 ... r-targets/

It feels as though missing out on Wilson and Baccus has significantly set us back. This feels less like working on a list and just hoping that some players become available.

Just seems like a realistic assessment, no?

If we want top Championship talent most of the lads we want will end up in the Championship. So if we have a list of a dozen players we're hoping only some of them get the move they want the we can then get the others.

If there are lads from the Premier League we want then they're unlikely to immediately jump at our offer of not a huge amount of money in League One.

If Paris Maghoma is after a move this summer he'll stay on the tour of the USA with Brentford until his agent tells him it's time to make a decision. It sounds like we're after players like Maghoma, Weir, etc. Which is exactly where we should be looking if we can get there.

But we are mainly looking at buys according to Evatt. So the question is we have to wait for the players to decide they can’t do any better. Then sign them. What if those players do decide they can do better?

And is that really consistent with identifying a list of targets for each position and working down them? If Wilson and Baccus were near the top of a list are we really working on ones below them but saying they are so good we can only sign them when we are their very last resort?

What happens if we get to August and for one reason or another these targets aren’t available - what is the plan then to have a top two squad? And any players available then it’s not like we will be the only ones fishing in the pool……

[TANGODANCER]

If you could take the wheeler dealer agents out of the equation it would all be so much simpler. The finance ferrets have all but taken over football transactions in their efforts to get "you" (read me) a better deal. I'd fire the lot of them. Their wages are secure before a ball is kicked. ....But then again, life was so much simpler yesterday....

[GhostoftheBok]

But we are mainly looking at buys according to Evatt. So the question is we have to wait for the players to decide they can’t do any better. Then sign them. What if those players do decide they can do better?

And is that really consistent with identifying a list of targets for each position and working down them? If Wilson and Baccus were near the top of a list are we really working on ones below them but saying they are so good we can only sign them when we are their very last resort?

What happens if we get to August and for one reason or another these targets aren’t available - what is the plan then to have a top two squad? And any players available then it’s not like we will be the only ones fishing in the pool……

Wilson and Baccus were available, so we went for them. As soon as we get the green light for anyone else we'll move for them.

There's no guarantee Baccus was first choice, more than one of a few who could all be called a "top target", with whoever was available first being the one we tried to get done.

Typically you'll be trying to line up deals for several players per position and waiting for one to fall into place.

If we thought a player who could kick us on was available we'd have gone for them, so it's not like we're putting off realistic Championship players until August.

I rate Baccus, but he's not necessarily better than some other players I could think of. If we'd got him he'd still have been superb business.

It sounds like you think we're chasing impossible dreams instead of "settling" for players who are still exceptional for this level. I don't see that here at all.

What we definitely shouldn't be doing now is buying players for hundreds of thousands who aren't significantly better than what we have. We're nowhere near that stage in the window.

[BWFC_Insane]

But we are mainly looking at buys according to Evatt. So the question is we have to wait for the players to decide they can’t do any better. Then sign them. What if those players do decide they can do better?

And is that really consistent with identifying a list of targets for each position and working down them? If Wilson and Baccus were near the top of a list are we really working on ones below them but saying they are so good we can only sign them when we are their very last resort?

What happens if we get to August and for one reason or another these targets aren’t available - what is the plan then to have a top two squad? And any players available then it’s not like we will be the only ones fishing in the pool……

Wilson and Baccus were available, so we went for them. As soon as we get the green light for anyone else we'll move for them.

There's no guarantee Baccus was first choice, more than one of a few who could all be called a "top target", with whoever was available first being the one we tried to get done.

Typically you'll be trying to line up deals for several players per position and waiting for one to fall into place.

If we thought a player who could kick us on was available we'd have gone for them, so it's not like we're putting off realistic Championship players until August.

I rate Baccus, but he's not necessarily better than some other players I could think of. If we'd got him he'd still have been superb business.

It sounds like you think we're chasing impossible dreams instead of "settling" for players who are still exceptional for this level. I don't see that here at all.

What we definitely shouldn't be doing now is buying players for hundreds of thousands who aren't significantly better than what we have. We're nowhere near that stage in the window.

I’ve been around a long time and I’d say broadly there are two types of windows, there are windows where you get your targets in by now and have a clear idea where you are going.

There are windows where by mid July you are still trying to secure your targets and there are few if any rumours because those deals are still quite distant.

One isn’t necessarily worse or better because sometimes you sign players early and they aren’t what you hoped. I do think though that in my experience more often than not when you hit the 3 weeks before a window and still are clearly not that close to signing key positions that more often than not you end up with much less than you need come the end of the window.

My question I guess is - we are waiting on availability - what happens if the players we want now aren’t available in the end - or end up being snapped up by those more keen or whatever - it’s not like past seasons where we could take a kid on loan and just muddle through. We need the top two. And are clearly miles off. There is pressure because fans have invested here…so I’m asking in say early August if we haven’t got these 4 or 5 we need what will the plan be to ensure we are not going to slip too far off the pace?

[GhostoftheBok]

I’ve been around a long time and I’d say broadly there are two types of windows, there are windows where you get your targets in by now and have a clear idea where you are going.

There are windows where by mid July you are still trying to secure your targets and there are few if any rumours because those deals are still quite distant.

One isn’t necessarily worse or better because sometimes you sign players early and they aren’t what you hoped. I do think though that in my experience more often than not when you hit the 3 weeks before a window and still are clearly not that close to signing key positions that more often than not you end up with much less than you need come the end of the window.

My question I guess is - we are waiting on availability - what happens if the players we want now aren’t available in the end - or end up being snapped up by those more keen or whatever - it’s not like past seasons where we could take a kid on loan and just muddle through. We need the top two. And are clearly miles off. There is pressure because fans have invested here…so I’m asking in say early August if we haven’t got these 4 or 5 we need what will the plan be to ensure we are not going to slip too far off the pace?

Having been on the other side of the curtain (albeit at a higher level than this where things work slightly differently) I'd not be panicking.

If players we felt could improve us enough to win this division were available, they'd be here.

It may be that we won't be able to attract all the players we want this window. That doesn't mean we've done anything wrong, as sometimes the market just isn't there for you.

Any player we get now for the sake of it won't be of the level we want, so why rush it?

Like I say, we're aiming high and we should be. If we miss, we cover and then do again in January. If we miss all four (?) it'll be really bad. The chances are we will miss at least one. The squad is currently good enough for us to miss one or two and still be up there come the next window.

[BWFC_Insane]

I’ve been around a long time and I’d say broadly there are two types of windows, there are windows where you get your targets in by now and have a clear idea where you are going.

There are windows where by mid July you are still trying to secure your targets and there are few if any rumours because those deals are still quite distant.

One isn’t necessarily worse or better because sometimes you sign players early and they aren’t what you hoped. I do think though that in my experience more often than not when you hit the 3 weeks before a window and still are clearly not that close to signing key positions that more often than not you end up with much less than you need come the end of the window.

My question I guess is - we are waiting on availability - what happens if the players we want now aren’t available in the end - or end up being snapped up by those more keen or whatever - it’s not like past seasons where we could take a kid on loan and just muddle through. We need the top two. And are clearly miles off. There is pressure because fans have invested here…so I’m asking in say early August if we haven’t got these 4 or 5 we need what will the plan be to ensure we are not going to slip too far off the pace?

Having been on the other side of the curtain (albeit at a higher level than this where things work slightly differently) I'd not be panicking.

If players we felt could improve us enough to win this division were available, they'd be here.

It may be that we won't be able to attract all the players we want this window. That doesn't mean we've done anything wrong, as sometimes the market just isn't there for you.

Any player we get now for the sake of it won't be of the level we want, so why rush it?

Like I say, we're aiming high and we should be. If we miss, we cover and then do again in January. If we miss all four (?) it'll be really bad. The chances are we will miss at least one. The squad is currently good enough for us to miss one or two and still be up there come the next window.

The judgement call here is we'll have a better squad than Wycombe, Blackpool, Derby, Portsmouth etc...some of whom have been pretty active in the market. We're saying 'yeah fine but we're going to sign better than Wilson and Leahy and Poole etc'.

Which is ok. But if the players don't become available are we confident we are better than them regardless?

[Bertie Wooster]

Agree with BWFCI - what happens if these players Evatt is waiting for don't become available ? or if they do become available are not interested in dropping down to League 1 or won't come due to the wages we are offering - surely Evatt & Markham will have concentrated their efforts over the past few months chasing players who will be available & would have already made the said players or their agents aware of our interest.

The summer will have been wasted if the targeted players don't want to come to us, and they could / should have concentrated on available players who want to play for BWFC and fit in with the wages we are willing to offer.

I hope that I'm wrong, but this is looking more like Shoretire & Mbete type last minute loans as the club couldn't secure the players they wanted.

[Worthy4England]

I'm pretty sure there's going to be a spread across all months of the transfer window - sure you might tend to get free's in early, but when you start talking money changing hands and competitive bids, they're probably not happening quick, unless you've put in a offer that couldn't be turned down or beaten. I doubt we're in that market space. I also doubt any agent worth their salt is advising anyone to take the first bid in May. Surely part of the reason there's so much traffic on deadline day, is that you arrive at a "final decision point" - so teams and players have no option other than to make up their mind. Maybe my experience of windows, needs me to buff them up a bit sharper, but I recall more like the ones I've described than the ones where all bits of the jigsaw were in early doors.

As to waiting on players to become available, should we have only looked for signings across free players and ones we know might be available, even if they're not as good as some others on the target list? Baccus and Wilson may or may not have been the best players we had on the list - we don't know - they might have been the best we thought we could get and a reasonable balance between the chance they might come to us and expenditure. We don't know if there were people Evatt/Markahm considered "better" but at significantly higher (but affordable) expense and a more competitive market for said player nor do we know whether Wilson and Baccus were asking significantly more than we thought they were worth. Baccus hasn't walked straight into another Club of his choosing, he's still at St Mirren. Is that because actually he's a bit shit? Asking too much? medically unfit? I dunno, but either way, he's still where he was at the start of the window.

I don't think anyone's sat here thinking "we've done great" so far, but until it's run its course, it's difficult to judge.

[Mar]

Barnsley in a spot of bother. Might help make it easier for getting promotion:

https://www.efl.com/news/2023/july/efl- ... arnsley-fc

[boltonboris]

Barnsley in a spot of bother. Might help make it easier for getting promotion:

https://www.efl.com/news/2023/july/efl- ... arnsley-fc

Do we know what the ramifications could be, if they fail to satisfy the EFL within the 14 days?

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Barnsley in a spot of bother. Might help make it easier for getting promotion:

https://www.efl.com/news/2023/july/efl- ... arnsley-fc

Do we know what the ramifications could be, if they fail to satisfy the EFL within the 14 days?

Potentially, points deduction and/or fine. But only potentially.

The two names are ex-directors, so the club will probably say "blame them not us" - but we know as much as anyone about the sins of the previous owners... and besides, the two names still own nearly 40% of the club, and some of the charges include "the club" failing to disclose etc.

I suspect it will get tidied up, possibly with a fine. But it's very far from optimal for them.

[Mar]

Barnsley in a spot of bother. Might help make it easier for getting promotion:

https://www.efl.com/news/2023/july/efl- ... arnsley-fc

Do we know what the ramifications could be, if they fail to satisfy the EFL within the 14 days?

Not sure. I suspect there will be precedent somewhere. Suspect at the minute this is a public boot up the arse more than a penalty of sorts.

[GhostoftheBok]

Agree with BWFCI - what happens if these players Evatt is waiting for don't become available ? or if they do become available are not interested in dropping down to League 1 or won't come due to the wages we are offering - surely Evatt & Markham will have concentrated their efforts over the past few months chasing players who will be available & would have already made the said players or their agents aware of our interest.

The summer will have been wasted if the targeted players don't want to come to us, and they could / should have concentrated on available players who want to play for BWFC and fit in with the wages we are willing to offer.

I hope that I'm wrong, but this is looking more like Shoretire & Mbete type last minute loans as the club couldn't secure the players they wanted.

I'm not sure the argument that we should sign players that the manager doesn't feel are good enough now, because we don't want to have to sign players that aren't good enough at the end of the window holds up.

The fact is that when you look at the players moving at the minute they're not ones who we'd think were amazing signings. Wilson, obviously; but who else? I'd suggest not many.

Some players have moved who would offer useful options and we'd not move on if they were already here, but you're not seeing stunning players sign for rivals. It's mostly a reshuffling of standard league one bods from one club to another.

[BWFC_Insane]

Agree with BWFCI - what happens if these players Evatt is waiting for don't become available ? or if they do become available are not interested in dropping down to League 1 or won't come due to the wages we are offering - surely Evatt & Markham will have concentrated their efforts over the past few months chasing players who will be available & would have already made the said players or their agents aware of our interest.

The summer will have been wasted if the targeted players don't want to come to us, and they could / should have concentrated on available players who want to play for BWFC and fit in with the wages we are willing to offer.

I hope that I'm wrong, but this is looking more like Shoretire & Mbete type last minute loans as the club couldn't secure the players they wanted.

I'm not sure the argument that we should sign players that the manager doesn't feel are good enough now, because we don't want to have to sign players that aren't good enough at the end of the window holds up.

The fact is that when you look at the players moving at the minute they're not ones who we'd think were amazing signings. Wilson, obviously; but who else? I'd suggest not many.

Some players have moved who would offer useful options and we'd not move on if they were already here, but you're not seeing stunning players sign for rivals. It's mostly a reshuffling of standard league one bods from one club to another.

The bottom line is that it doesn't really matter to anyone who we sign or don't. The end result is what matters and being in that top 2. What is being questioned is more whether the approach taken is the right one or not. And whilst we won't know that till August and maybe even beyond that there isn't much else to do over the summer than discuss it.

If we unveil a host of established top players and storm the league then nobody will be unhappy at all.

But there aren't any excuses this season. It purely comes down to how good a manager Evatt is and his judgement. That's what determines where we finish.

[GhostoftheBok]

The bottom line is that it doesn't really matter to anyone who we sign or don't. The end result is what matters and being in that top 2. What is being questioned is more whether the approach taken is the right one or not. And whilst we won't know that till August and maybe even beyond that there isn't much else to do over the summer than discuss it.

If we unveil a host of established top players and storm the league then nobody will be unhappy at all.

But there aren't any excuses this season. It purely comes down to how good a manager Evatt is and his judgement. That's what determines where we finish.

Na, you're wrong here.

We do need to go up. That's the aim, but it's not all that matters.

If that was all Evatt was thinking about then he would be a bad manager and Markham would also be bad at his job.

We are looking to spend money and we can't spend it twice. If we go up and then have to immediately replace the players we've just signed in order to stay up, that's a transfer failure. Previously it wasn't as much of an issue, as we were signing frees. When you spend a decent fee it has to have longer than a 12 months impact.

Likewise you can suffer a raft of injuries and other issues that can derail even the best sides, or you can hit a market that doesn't offer you what you need.

By your reasoning Jurgen Klopp is a bad manager with bad judgement, because he's just had a bad season. He's not, because there were various factors at play. He has failed this season, but remains a good manager.

Evatt needs to get us up and also produce a squad that can offer us a platform to build on in the Championship. Every player we spend money on this summer needs to still be important next summer a division up, because we can't afford to go again in positions we've just spent on - certainly not more than a couple, anyway.

Evatt's spoken enough times about clubs who go up in an unsustainable way. Playing the wrong football and signing the wrong types of players. He's right about it.

[Worthy4England]

What happens if we don't unveil a host of established top players and go up? Will that make Evatt great? The judgement of how good a transfer window is, will be where we finish (or maybe where we are when the next window opens), rather than the window itself. There's been plenty of big signature signings that have flopped.

I don't think anyone disagrees that the goal is promotion, this year.

[GhostoftheBok]

I don't think anyone disagrees that the goal is promotion, this year.

Has to be, yes.

More than that, it's to establish over this season the core of a squad that can survive in the Championship next season.