Snog, Marry, Avoid: Summer 2023 Transfer Window

[GhostoftheBok]

The Leeds takeover is official now. That will mean one or two things can now be formally signed off on and it may add some energy to the market.

[GhostoftheBok]

On players dropping down lower than expected, that's probably something to get used to.

There's so much money in the Prem now that clubs don't have to take risks on younger players as much as they used to. If Palmer was coming through 15 years ago there would have been half a dozen clubs in the top flight scrapping for his signature. Now clubs have so many players (often too many) that a player has to offer something unique to get a loan move at that level - like Conor Gallagher's exceptional work rate in midfield landing him a gig at Palace.

Players like Gallagher are hard to find anywhere, but you can find more experienced players who offer what Palmer does, eve if he will one day be better than them.

[The_Gun]

Cole Palmers gone to Leicester. The new Carrs pasty shop on the Middlebrook obviously didn't work its magic.

Sounds like he's heading on loan to Brighton, which would be a good move for him.

Anyway, if Bolton are wanting to bring in players of that calibre, we'll have to be looking at 18 year olds without first team experience. I'm sure there are plenty at City who would be of interest to us.

[Worthy4England]

The excitement of a slow news day...

I think it's worth mentioning that 20 years ago today, one Ivan Campo walked onto the hallowed turf for a PSG. No pressure, Ian!

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

20 years ago today, one Ivan Campo walked onto the hallowed turf for a PSG.

...and in his first three games, we twice lost 4-0 (including to our most hated rivals), and threw away a 2-0 lead at home to some other local rivals.

Worked out alright in the end, thankfully. Sometimes you need patience...

[GhostoftheBok]

I think it's worth mentioning that 20 years ago today, one Ivan Campo walked onto the hallowed turf for a PSG. No pressure, Ian!

Also worth remembering that ambitious aims from Sam saw us miss out on on a number of players that summer, including Ronny Johnsen. We also waited about 2 months for Ivan to finally agree to come here.

So Evatt's in good company when it comes to willingness to wait for quality.

[GhostoftheBok]

...and in his first three games, we twice lost 4-0 (including to our most hated rivals), and threw away a 2-0 lead at home to some other local rivals.

Worked out alright in the end, thankfully. Sometimes you need patience...

Didn't Mark Lawrenson call Campo "a clown" and say he might be the worst defender he'd ever seen?

[BWFC_Insane]

...and in his first three games, we twice lost 4-0 (including to our most hated rivals), and threw away a 2-0 lead at home to some other local rivals.

Worked out alright in the end, thankfully. Sometimes you need patience...

Didn't Mark Lawrenson call Campo "a clown" and say he might be the worst defender he'd ever seen?

He was woeful at centre half. Luckily Allardyce adapted to his players and found the role in front of the back four for him. The ended up with another legend in Hierro. Who had a similar journey for desperate looking centre half to absolute genius in midfield.

Great players are more important than systems.

[GhostoftheBok]

He was woeful at centre half. Luckily Allardyce adapted to his players and found the role in front of the back four for him. The ended up with another legend in Hierro. Who had a similar journey for desperate looking centre half to absolute genius in midfield.

Great players are more important than systems.

Surely that means great players aren't more important than systems? We put a great player in a system that didn't suit him and he was crap. So the system was vitally important to get the most out of the player.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

He was woeful at centre half. Luckily Allardyce adapted to his players and found the role in front of the back four for him. The ended up with another legend in Hierro. Who had a similar journey for desperate looking centre half to absolute genius in midfield.

Great players are more important than systems.

Surely that means great players aren't more important than systems? We put a great player in a system that didn't suit him and he was crap. So the system was vitally important to get the most out of the player.

In both cases, the player also changed from one position in Sam's 4-1-2-2-1 system (centre-back) to another (holding midfielder). Once he settled on it, I can't recall Sam ever changing from that system. So maybe he saw it as important.

[Worthy4England]

I think it's worth mentioning that 20 years ago today, one Ivan Campo walked onto the hallowed turf for a PSG. No pressure, Ian!

Also worth remembering that ambitious aims from Sam saw us miss out on on a number of players that summer, including Ronny Johnsen. We also waited about 2 months for Ivan to finally agree to come here.

So Evatt's in good company when it comes to willingness to wait for quality.

Of course he may have waited 2 months to land the deal, but either way, Ivan was in the building by this point. I don't worry about who we didn't get, because we didn't get 'em...

[Worthy4England]

20 years ago today, one Ivan Campo walked onto the hallowed turf for a PSG.

...and in his first three games, we twice lost 4-0 (including to our most hated rivals), and threw away a 2-0 lead at home to some other local rivals.

Worked out alright in the end, thankfully. Sometimes you need patience...

Happy to give anyone three games. Vic/Dan, is that you?

[BWFC_Insane]

He was woeful at centre half. Luckily Allardyce adapted to his players and found the role in front of the back four for him. The ended up with another legend in Hierro. Who had a similar journey for desperate looking centre half to absolute genius in midfield.

Great players are more important than systems.

Surely that means great players aren't more important than systems? We put a great player in a system that didn't suit him and he was crap. So the system was vitally important to get the most out of the player.

I mean we didn’t change the system but found a way to get the most out of a great player. For me that’s the bit of management Evatt still has to learn. It’s great recruiting to system specifics and he’s largely been afforded that here. But I’d not fancy his chances walking into an established squad he hasn’t built. If he wants to be a premiership manager one day it’s the part he will have to learn. League one you probably don’t have many players who you can’t jettison. As you go up you end up with more especially outside the very top teams. And you have to find ways to get the best out of them.

Allardyce went through that transition and Evatt will I suspect too.

[boltonboris]

Yeah, I mean we can't really judge Evatt until he can sign Champions League, World Cup and European Cup winners on wages that will ultimately almost put us out of business.

Until he does that, he's on the chopping block

[GhostoftheBok]

In terms of Evatt learning to change things to get the best out of his squad, isn't that exactly what happened? He looked at the strengths of the squad overall and decided his best chance of going up was to switch to a 5-3-2 system, which dramatically improved us. We didn't score enough, but he took a load of defenders people claimed were crap and produced the second best defence in the division.

It meant sacrificing the wingers, but he saw what the team could be and he made a difficult call - which is what management is about.

If he got that wrong he'd have been slaughtered. He was man enough to take that pressure on himself and he got it right.

So in terms of finding a way to get the best out of players it's not about individuals, it's about getting the best out of the squad. Isn't that precisely what he's done?

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

20 years ago today, one Ivan Campo walked onto the hallowed turf for a PSG.

...and in his first three games, we twice lost 4-0 (including to our most hated rivals), and threw away a 2-0 lead at home to some other local rivals.

Worked out alright in the end, thankfully. Sometimes you need patience...

Happy to give anyone three games. Vic/Dan, is that you?

in Hierro's case, I seem to recall his nadir was at Norwich in December. Twas only after that, IIRC, that Sam switched him forward.

So you might have to give them six months - as you already have

[Worthy4England]

I only posted the initial thing as a "cheer up"

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

In terms of Evatt learning to change things to get the best out of his squad, isn't that exactly what happened? He looked at the strengths of the squad overall and decided his best chance of going up was to switch to a 5-3-2 system, which dramatically improved us. We didn't score enough, but he took a load of defenders people claimed were crap and produced the second best defence in the division.

It meant sacrificing the wingers, but he saw what the team could be and he made a difficult call - which is what management is about.

If he got that wrong he'd have been slaughtered. He was man enough to take that pressure on himself and he got it right.

So in terms of finding a way to get the best out of players it's not about individuals, it's about getting the best out of the squad. Isn't that precisely what he's done?

Evatt also changed away from his clearly beloved system in the first season, to good effect. Then, when the back four stopped working, changed back again.

While comparisons between managers are as obvious as they are pointless, I can understand why Evatt is being measured against Allardyce* - there's the same sense of big-project empire-building, and indeed the same garrulousness (you'll rarely go long without a quote). However, of all the comparisons that could be made between them (presumably with an eye to criticising the incumbent), "valuing system over players" is a curious hill to die on.

*or, more disparagingly, Neal – with whom, to be fair, Evatt shares some landmarks: Div 4 promotion, followed by Wembley cup win, followed by disappointing play-off semi-final (in which we tepidly draw the home leg then lose to nil away). If he starts talking about "water off a duck's back" and we then reach a play-off final against Tranmere, maybe we should sack him to be safe.

[sonicthewhite]

...and in his first three games, we twice lost 4-0 (including to our most hated rivals), and threw away a 2-0 lead at home to some other local rivals.

Worked out alright in the end, thankfully. Sometimes you need patience...

Didn't Mark Lawrenson call Campo "a clown" and say he might be the worst defender he'd ever seen?

He was the worst defender we'd ever seen at that point. But as a DM he was glorious

[TANGODANCER]

Didn't Mark Lawrenson call Campo "a clown" and say he might be the worst defender he'd ever seen?

He was the worst defender we'd ever seen at that point. But as a DM he was glorious
[/quote]

Ivan made winning free kicks into an art form.