Should I(E) stay or should I(E) go?

[GhostoftheBok]

Specifically I’d say a 4231!

Meh, numbers.

Players have roles. The numbers don't really matter.

If we switch to whatever your preferred system is who do YOU rely on being able to win League One next season? I'm not setting a trap, just wondering how many first 11 players you feel we'd need to top the table.

[boltonboris]

The squad is shaped up to play the system which it has done for 2 seasons now - It won't change and I don't think it needs to. We just need to improve in a few positions. It feels like we're a million miles away right now, but I don't think we are

[Worthy4England]

There are fewer wing backs - they are highly specialised roles and I think the quality we need in those positions to specifically make this system work is exceptionally high. You are looking for players with everything in their game.

I don’t think it’s the same for example at centre half in a normal setup.

Evatts said previously he prefers a 4-3-3.

If his reaction to this season just gone is to switch I am fine with that.

Getting considerably better players than we have is likely to be expensive regardless, though. Not many clubs are letting leaders with real quality go. Switching to a 4-3-3 will likely mean we have to do more business than we otherwise would.

Guess we have to hope this new scouting and analysis relationship pays its way.

Yeah, was going to add that bit at the bottom myself. Whilst you could see some natural churn of a few players, there would likely have to be some outgoings (even with some if the incoming narrative having been "X can play as LWB, LB or LCB). Either said player can fulfill those roles in a team expecting to be somewhere near the top end, or people are being disingenuous - either Fred can play all three at a sufficient level or there's no point in including it in "reasons to buy Fred"

I'm not really tied to a particular formation, it's sort of why Managers exist. 352, 433, 442 which ever one gets us up.

[GhostoftheBok]

I'm not really tied to a particular formation, it's sort of why Managers exist. 352, 433, 442 which ever one gets us up.

Most "formations" are meaningless now.

Almost all teams play different shapes based on where the ball is at the time and players are expected to know.

Very little static stuff on show outside the lowest levels now.

Many ways to flense a feline.

[BWFC_Insane]

Specifically I’d say a 4231!

Meh, numbers.

Players have roles. The numbers don't really matter.

If we switch to whatever your preferred system is who do YOU rely on being able to win League One next season? I'm not setting a trap, just wondering how many first 11 players you feel we'd need to top the table.

I think that it’s a hard discussion to have because I feel that if we stop trying to play such an expansive possession based game become more compact and let quality at the top end win games we will do better. And I think for example that Toal could be an outstanding centre back in a back four doing a normal Cb job than he is on the left of a back three where he’s a fish out of water and certainly not comfortable with a lot of the role he is asked to do.

I think the more we simplify it the better. I think Gethin could be perfectly acceptable as a normal right back same with Cogley. He’s just not good enough for WB in our system now. But he’s a decent sort who could be a fine RB. Same with Iredale. I think Thommo is fine in midfield with an older head alongside him to do the ‘trenches work’. Collins is somewhere in the three. Charles if here plays up top.

I think there is work to do but I just think the gap from where we are to where we want to be with a high line possession based 352 is huge in quality and expenditure terms but much smaller if we are happy to be a compact side - hard to break down with some real quality (which we already have) in attacking areas to win us games.

[Worthy4England]

I'm not really tied to a particular formation, it's sort of why Managers exist. 352, 433, 442 which ever one gets us up.

Most "formations" are meaningless now.

Almost all teams play different shapes based on where the ball is at the time and players are expected to know.

Very little static stuff on show outside the lowest levels now.

Many ways to flense a feline.

I'm still working out which players need flensing tbh!

That's pretty much where I'm at. 442 doesn't have to be hoofball. 352 isn't all on the deck as we've seen recently with long diagonals. Just needs to work enough...

[GhostoftheBok]

The issue for me is we score so many goals and have just added a 750k forward who is thriving in this system.

My instinct is 100% to fix the issues and save what's clearly working.

I do understand the "change completely and go simple" stuff, but there's so much that works.

Changing the formation won't fix "character", so really it seems like it's just an excuse to scrap an approach some don't like.

If we do that I am fine with it and it's good to know who people rate and who they don't.

I do struggle with the idea that you switch formation to make the group better and then only want 5 (I think?) current players to start, though.

I'm still not ready to rewatch Saturday. When I am (and rewatch load of other losses from this season) I might be a bit more vociferous in my opinions. Right now I've no issue with the pitchforks and torches.

[BWFC_Insane]

It’s because I believe the system and how we play is exposed when stressed by pressure, well structured teams with enough quality. And I don’t think that is easily changed because I think the weak points are numerous and needing very specific players with very specific qualities.

I don’t think we can become better defensively whilst maintaining our attacking threat without significantly upgrading a lot of players.

Toal I think is very good. He’s absolutely not a left sided CB in a three though. I don’t think realistically he’s the answer in a back three. Neither is jones. Santos for me can go. So you need potentially a whole new back three. 4 new wing backs….

Whereas I think in a simpler less expansive structure you have a lot of players who can do well.

Leadership on field is needed but it will be easier to recruit that in the form of a solid and consistent league one CB than it will one who can defend also has pace to deal with space in behind and who can pass the ball and carry it forward comfortably.

[officer_dibble]

I think if you’re keeping the system we have to upgrade the wingbacks. Cooley was on the whole excellent this season but he isn’t Connor Bradley. We won’t get Connor Bradley but perhaps loaning one from above might be the way to go there.

Randell I think is as good a signing as you get at this level for wingback, but he is breakable. Won’t play 40 games a season.

The other two I look at are Sheehan and Santos. That’s where you want leaders. Neither offer that.

[GhostoftheBok]

4 new wingbacks seems a stretch when Randell has mostly done well and Cogley was in the Team of the Year.

I'm sick of talking about (the now promoted) Kane Wilson. Get me two wingbacks of that level, please, so I can shut up about it.

[Worthy4England]

The bottom line isn't in the details, I suspect, for many fans (even though it's a game of opinions). We go up this season by either route and this conversation is probably, pretty much sidelined.

Given we didn't and will now be moving to our 4th L1 season, it's more of a problem. I don't like this style of football but could live with it, if it got us up. You can't always have eveything you want. That's not an "excuse to bash it," I don't need one. Other folks have some fairly fixed opinions on both sides of the argument. Fundamentally, we can still have our flaws (as indeed most teams have) if we get promoted.

We've had three years of being told this system is the best and most advantageous so I'd expect it to be the most adaptable for when shit happens. I'm not convinced that for the same outlay with a different system we wouldn't get better results. (Equally we could get worse results).

In short, it needs to shit or get off the pot.

[GhostoftheBok]

In short, it needs to shit or get off the pot.

That much, yes. You win or it doesn't matter.

This is the first time, for me, Evatt has objectively failed. I think previously each season could be seen as successful. This one can't.

Most managers fail. The question is how they react.

I don't like Ian much as a person and I could see him walking. I'd personally see that as indicative of a character flaw. I'd like to be proven wrong and see him come back stronger.

Him walking is preferable to him staying on for a pay check and waiting for a better offer.

New manager or renewed Evatt. Anything else is a disaster.

[jmjhb]

Out of interest, Ghost, who would top your list of replacement managers?

[GhostoftheBok]

Out of interest, Ghost, who would top your list of replacement managers?

My appointment would be really unpopular.

Stephen Robinson.

[officer_dibble]

4 new wingbacks seems a stretch when Randell has mostly done well and Cogley was in the Team of the Year.

I'm sick of talking about (the now promoted) Kane Wilson. Get me two wingbacks of that level, please, so I can shut up about it.

Sounds easy doesn’t it!!

[Worthy4England]

Out of interest, Ghost, who would top your list of replacement managers?

My appointment would be really unpopular.

Stephen Robinson.

You're not selling me on the vision here, Ghost!

[Bertie Wooster]

I think if you’re keeping the system we have to upgrade the wingbacks. Cooley was on the whole excellent this season but he isn’t Connor Bradley. We won’t get Connor Bradley but perhaps loaning one from above might be the way to go there.

Randell I think is as good a signing as you get at this level for wingback, but he is breakable. Won’t play 40 games a season.

The other two I look at are Sheehan and Santos. That’s where you want leaders. Neither offer that.

I actually think that Sheehan is over rated, he maybe has 1 decent game in 3 or 4 and in many games goes missing, Thomason who can sometimes be a leader on the pitch and has improved is IMO over rated (football wise) and isn't good enough for a top 2 or top 3 league 1 team. We need better midfielders than these to improve enough to go up, I honestly think that our midfield is the major weak link in this team / squad as was evident quite clearly on Saturday and in the 2nd half against Barnsley (when we where up against it until Dempsey came on and settled things down).

I also don't think we have enough players good enough to play Evatt's brand of possession football, which again is baffling as to why he keeps trying to play that way with some players who are just not good enough or comfortable on the ball enough to play that way.

[GhostoftheBok]

You're not selling me on the vision here, Ghost!

I know, I know

He's had three proper jobs. Absolutely excelled in two and made real mistakes in the third. I actively want a manager who has experienced failure and come back better.

He's played multiple styles of football with different groups and shown his sides will always have fight and excitement about them regardless.

I think he'd slot into our set up, root-out any lads who aren't up for it and keep what works.

Plus I've met him. He's knowledgeable about the English game and has good relationships with the upper levels of the game on both sides of the border.

I don't think the fans would be happy initially and I don't think our board would appoint him. I do think he'd do a very good job, though.

[Worthy4England]

You're not selling me on the vision here, Ghost!

I know, I know

He's had three proper jobs. Absolutely excelled in two and made real mistakes in the third. I actively want a manager who has experienced failure and come back better.

He's played multiple styles of football with different groups and shown his sides will always have fight and excitement about them regardless.

I think he'd slot into our set up, root-out any lads who aren't up for it and keep what works.

Plus I've met him. He's knowledgeable about the English game and has good relationships with the upper levels of the game on both sides of the border.

I don't think the fans would be happy initially and I don't think our board would appoint him. I do think he'd do a very good job, though.

Sounds promising, thankd. I don't think you necessarily need an unblemished record as long as you now understand what you'd do differently.

In some ways similar to IE (if you view this season as an underperformance), I'm just not convinced he can drive enough change (and I mean enough, rather than wholesale) to get what's maybe the required 10% improvement.

[GhostoftheBok]

I'm just not convinced he can drive enough change (and I mean enough, rather than wholesale) to get what's maybe the required 10% improvement.

Neither am I, as things stand.

I think he's capable, in theory. I'm not sure the current man, as he exists in the real world, can.

He needs to show it.