Should I(E) stay or should I(E) go?

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

There's loads to be positive about. It's just hard to be so after such a disappointing finish last term.

We have a team with loads of goals in it, protected by good contracts and with no players aging out.

We've freed up wages and have zero fat.

Plenty of managers will envy Evatt's position this summer. Obviously some on here (and generally) just don't trust Evatt to make the most of the position he's in, but you'd have to be daft not to recognise it as a strong starting position for a League One side.

If we choose to let players go we will be able to reinvest, because it'll involved fees. If teams force us to sell players we'd rather keep then it'll mean significant cash coming in.

It's a brilliant position for a football department to be in. This is the best work on that side of things I've seen as a Bolton fan.

It's only totally doom and gloom if that's your agenda. It's also not all rosy, clearly; but it never will be when we're starting a season in League One. From now on any season we start in League One will follow on from a disappointment.

I'm not doom and gloom, but I don't think we've got a huge amount of room to make enough changes to fix the problems, or at least sufficiently to make the difference. Assuming none of the usual first 11 leave...

Goalkeeper
Not a priority, but a concern if Baxter is out for any length of a run.

Wing backs
We're all agreed we need a couple

Back 3
Without knowing how Johnston will come back this is tricky. Jones, Santos and Toal at LCB cannot be a regular pick next season. If Johnston comes back as we all hope then Toal, Santos Johnston is plenty good enough, but we do need some cover for Santos, or at least someone to push him.

Midfield
Somehow we need to replace Paris.
We need an alternative to Sheehan for the games we know he struggles in
We need someone to help Thomason
Dempsey was the least shit at Wembley, but he isn't consistently ace enough for me
Morley mostly disappoints and I don't think we can rely on him to suddenly kick on as that is a gamble.

Forwards
AC/DC and Vic are all fine/good/ace delete as applicable
If we're doing the subbing forwards every game thing then Dan and Vic aren't doing plan A better and its a shit plan B. Happy for Dan to be the 5th forward and prove us all wrong.
I still don't know what CMG is and when will he be back and how long until he's got any sort of form. We need to replace JDB and Jerome and have a better plan B up there.

There are lots of ways the above can be tackled, but it is still a fair amount to be done with limited funds.

I'll be more confident when I start to see some progress on fixing my list. Until then I reserve the right to be a bit miserable some days

[BWFC_Insane]

I think the minimum we need to have any chance…

A proper commanding no nonsense centre half who doesn’t go missing. Ideally a leader. And preferably one we play in a back four with Toal or Johnston.

Two physically commanding centre mids who can cover ground get round the pitch and do a lot of work. Grafters. Harriers. Ideally one more comfortable sitting in Karl Henry style to properly shield the back four.

One of those three players needs to be the captain and all need to be experienced at this level or above ideally with promotion on their cv.

Wide players. For me we go back four and sign a winger or two. Of wide forwards. One needs to have superb delivery. The other probably needs real pace.

The ideally a goalscorer from midfield or number ten.

I think we can make do with our full back options in a 4.

Keeper seems ok.

[dave the minion]

Ah well, at least our keeper will just about do........


OK, so just to recap. You expect us to sign - as an absolute minimum to even compete in this league:

Top level, captain-ready centre half
+
2 x "Karl Henry-esque" midfielders, at least one who has plied their trade a level above
+
2 good wingers with pace and/or excellent delivery
+
Proven goal-scoring #10

Piece of p*ss this winning league 1 isn't it - just build a premier league level squad and you're there!?!?!

Out of interest, where on god's green earth do you think the budget for these comes from - bearing in mind pretty much anyone we sell to fund these also probably needs replacing as well ??? Especially given you seem to have insider knowledge about the basket case our financials are now we didn't go up??

No wonder you don't see any positivity around if your expectations are set at that level for the bare minimum!!

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Ah well, at least our keeper will just about do........


OK, so just to recap. You expect us to sign - as an absolute minimum to even compete in this league:

Top level, captain-ready centre half
+
2 x "Karl Henry-esque" midfielders, at least one who has plied their trade a level above
+
2 good wingers with pace and/or excellent delivery
+
Proven goal-scoring #10

Piece of p*ss this winning league 1 isn't it - just build a premier league level squad and you're there!?!?!

Out of interest, where on god's green earth do you think the budget for these comes from - bearing in mind pretty much anyone we sell to fund these also probably needs replacing as well ??? Especially given you seem to have insider knowledge about the basket case our financials are now we didn't go up??

No wonder you don't see any positivity around if your expectations are set at that level for the bare minimum!!

He's saying what he thinks we need to fix it. If we're saying we need to know exactly how much and how it will be funded then you're being as ridiculous as anyone. I'd call him out if he was telling us we need Messi as that is patently unrealistic. It remains to be seen exactly what is going to be realistic as we don't know how much money we have or if more investment is in the pipeline

To be fair, I sometimes find the negativity tedious from some posters (I absolutely uphold their right to be so), but it is equally tedious seeing the same posters jumping on certain posters and be as equally steadfast in their negativity about said poster.

its a forum and there is going to be shit posted you disagree with.

[BWFC_Insane]

Ah well, at least our keeper will just about do........


OK, so just to recap. You expect us to sign - as an absolute minimum to even compete in this league:

Top level, captain-ready centre half
+
2 x "Karl Henry-esque" midfielders, at least one who has plied their trade a level above
+
2 good wingers with pace and/or excellent delivery
+
Proven goal-scoring #10

Piece of p*ss this winning league 1 isn't it - just build a premier league level squad and you're there!?!?!

Out of interest, where on god's green earth do you think the budget for these comes from - bearing in mind pretty much anyone we sell to fund these also probably needs replacing as well ??? Especially given you seem to have insider knowledge about the basket case our financials are now we didn't go up??

No wonder you don't see any positivity around if your expectations are set at that level for the bare minimum!!

It is likely contingent on selling players. As most clubs at this level have to do. I do not know the budgets and am merely expressing what I think we’d need to have a chance.

I’m not suggesting these players need to be from a higher level more that they need to have played at this one. Ideally if possible have some track record of promotion.

We’ve spent a lot of time recruiting players to go on a journey with us but the issue is imho in some cases they’ve gone as far as they are able.

[GhostoftheBok]

Until then I reserve the right to be a bit miserable some days

Yup. You have that right.

Something is rotten in the state of Lostock, but not everything.

[Worthy4England]

Ah well, at least our keeper will just about do........


OK, so just to recap. You expect us to sign - as an absolute minimum to even compete in this league:

Top level, captain-ready centre half
+
2 x "Karl Henry-esque" midfielders, at least one who has plied their trade a level above
+
2 good wingers with pace and/or excellent delivery
+
Proven goal-scoring #10

Piece of p*ss this winning league 1 isn't it - just build a premier league level squad and you're there!?!?!

Out of interest, where on god's green earth do you think the budget for these comes from - bearing in mind pretty much anyone we sell to fund these also probably needs replacing as well ??? Especially given you seem to have insider knowledge about the basket case our financials are now we didn't go up??

No wonder you don't see any positivity around if your expectations are set at that level for the bare minimum!!

What do you think we need DTM?

[GhostoftheBok]

Ah well, at least our keeper will just about do........

Small mercies, I suppose.

"Buy half a dozen Championship-ready players" and "We're going to go bankrupt" don't seem to sit well together, but there you go.

The reality is we need more ability in key positions and we new voices in the dressing room.

Whichever system we play you're probably putting most of your money out wide.

You've then got to replace Paris and figure out the leadership group.

We finished 3rd, not 13th. Finding consistency (the key part) and adding a couple of classy players probably gets us up.

Feel free to throw a Roy Keane clone into midfield if one shows up. Bound to be one knocking about on a free for low wages.

[dave the minion]

Ah well, at least our keeper will just about do........


OK, so just to recap. You expect us to sign - as an absolute minimum to even compete in this league:

Top level, captain-ready centre half
+
2 x "Karl Henry-esque" midfielders, at least one who has plied their trade a level above
+
2 good wingers with pace and/or excellent delivery
+
Proven goal-scoring #10

Piece of p*ss this winning league 1 isn't it - just build a premier league level squad and you're there!?!?!

Out of interest, where on god's green earth do you think the budget for these comes from - bearing in mind pretty much anyone we sell to fund these also probably needs replacing as well ??? Especially given you seem to have insider knowledge about the basket case our financials are now we didn't go up??

No wonder you don't see any positivity around if your expectations are set at that level for the bare minimum!!

What do you think we need DTM?

Arse! Knew someone would ask that......

Honest answer is "I don't know", but appreciate thats not helpful.

However, in the spirit of debate, and without thinking about how plausible/possible it is or who is available and how we afford them, where I see the squad:

Keeper
Very pleased with Baxter, and Coleman a more than capable understudy

Defence (assuming same formation)
A fully-fit Santos good for me as the anchor point (I assume his calf injury impacted 2nd half of last season). Maye a few sessions of leadership training wouldn't go amiss, but he can be as good as anyone in the division.
Then any 2 from Johnston/Toal/Iredale/Jones/Forrester, whilst not setting the world on fire, should be as strong as any backline in the division and gives us options & flexibility to tweak.
Whilst it feels a bit light on physicality/leadership, not sure you can bring in another centre half without shipping one or 2 out. I'd really like to see Iredale step up to be more consistent as he adds a bit of steel in there.

Wing-backs
Big fan of both JDC / RW (JDC on a crash course in crossing & passing in final 1/3)
Defintely need cover for both these roles though - I know we can use Jones and Iredale if we have to, but would be good to have someone like Ashworth back or see if Matheson can step up

Up top
AC/DC firing on all cylinders could be very successful, and must be first choice
Dan & Vic as back up is fine for me, but I do think we need maybe 1 more seasoned pro to replace Bod & Jerome (not sure we need 2?). Could Carty make the step up?

Midfield
Core of the midfield for me needs to be Thomasson (maybe a hybrid of the one that was getting booked every game and the one from the 2nd half of the season) & Sheehan (I know he can be played out of some games, but he was player of the season and in the EFL team of the season - genuinely don't get the clamour to ship him out). Think that leaves Morely, Dempsey & CMG? I'm happy with all 3, but think we are missing a Maghoma direct replacement.

So - for me - I think - I'm largely there with the current squad. There's some assumption fringe players can step up, but if they can, then I think for me all I'd be looking for is a direct Maghoma replacment, 1 in for the departed Bod/Jerome, maybe a versatile wing back? And at a pinch, another centre half, contingent on shipping one out?

[GhostoftheBok]

I think for me all I'd be looking for is a direct Maghoma replacment

Okay, I'm not quite that positive.

[Worthy4England]

If we're in the let's have a recap business...

We leaked 51 league goals and no one seems to want any defenders. I'm ok with that, but then we need to limit exposure elsewhere probably in midfield. No one wants to change Sheehan, so replacement Paris is already going to have to be about Roy Keane at his best, probably with chunks of Viera, a dose of Modric and maybe Kante's engine thrown in for good measure.

[GhostoftheBok]

We leaked 51 league goals and no one seems to want any defenders.

The season before we conceded 36, which this season would have been the best defensive record in the league.

Same defenders.

Don't recall Roy rocking up for too many games.

[Worthy4England]

Ah well, at least our keeper will just about do........


OK, so just to recap. You expect us to sign - as an absolute minimum to even compete in this league:

Top level, captain-ready centre half
+
2 x "Karl Henry-esque" midfielders, at least one who has plied their trade a level above
+
2 good wingers with pace and/or excellent delivery
+
Proven goal-scoring #10

Piece of p*ss this winning league 1 isn't it - just build a premier league level squad and you're there!?!?!

Out of interest, where on god's green earth do you think the budget for these comes from - bearing in mind pretty much anyone we sell to fund these also probably needs replacing as well ??? Especially given you seem to have insider knowledge about the basket case our financials are now we didn't go up??

No wonder you don't see any positivity around if your expectations are set at that level for the bare minimum!!

What do you think we need DTM?

Arse! Knew someone would ask that......

Honest answer is "I don't know", but appreciate thats not helpful.

However, in the spirit of debate, and without thinking about how plausible/possible it is or who is available and how we afford them, where I see the squad:

Keeper
Very pleased with Baxter, and Coleman a more than capable understudy

Defence (assuming same formation)
A fully-fit Santos good for me as the anchor point (I assume his calf injury impacted 2nd half of last season). Maye a few sessions of leadership training wouldn't go amiss, but he can be as good as anyone in the division.
Then any 2 from Johnston/Toal/Iredale/Jones/Forrester, whilst not setting the world on fire, should be as strong as any backline in the division and gives us options & flexibility to tweak.
Whilst it feels a bit light on physicality/leadership, not sure you can bring in another centre half without shipping one or 2 out. I'd really like to see Iredale step up to be more consistent as he adds a bit of steel in there.

Wing-backs
Big fan of both JDC / RW (JDC on a crash course in crossing & passing in final 1/3)
Defintely need cover for both these roles though - I know we can use Jones and Iredale if we have to, but would be good to have someone like Ashworth back or see if Matheson can step up

Up top
AC/DC firing on all cylinders could be very successful, and must be first choice
Dan & Vic as back up is fine for me, but I do think we need maybe 1 more seasoned pro to replace Bod & Jerome (not sure we need 2?). Could Carty make the step up?

Midfield
Core of the midfield for me needs to be Thomasson (maybe a hybrid of the one that was getting booked every game and the one from the 2nd half of the season) & Sheehan (I know he can be played out of some games, but he was player of the season and in the EFL team of the season - genuinely don't get the clamour to ship him out). Think that leaves Morely, Dempsey & CMG? I'm happy with all 3, but think we are missing a Maghoma direct replacement.

So - for me - I think - I'm largely there with the current squad. There's some assumption fringe players can step up, but if they can, then I think for me all I'd be looking for is a direct Maghoma replacment, 1 in for the departed Bod/Jerome, maybe a versatile wing back? And at a pinch, another centre half, contingent on shipping one out?

Good points, all, mate. Just as an aside, I'm not necessarily in the "Ship Sheehan and Santos out, camp." Most games they're going to be decent.

The games they're likely to be less good or better covered (and I think most of us can have a pretty decent guess which they might be - at least within 10 mins of KO), I think needs more of a think about formation. If you can drop into DSB's previously suggested two 6's occasionally, that might be the cunning plan. Oftimes we fine with 2 8's, but I worry whether we collectively have enough faith in Morley, and at best it's possibly your second choice option to start.

Captains. I like Santos for the most part, just don't think he's a skipper.

[BWFC_Insane]

There is imo a lack of realism in ‘make santos a better leader’. It doesn’t work like that. He’s in his late twenties has played no higher than this level (for good reason) and lacks the mental focus and concentration across a season and even within games.

You can’t suddenly turn a switch or make him into a leader. He has enough problems in his own game.

Same with JDC - he’s a lad who is what he is. He’s not going to suddenly add the ability to ping great crosses in from all over. We are dealing with lower league players here.

That’s fine. I’m not expecting them to be able to do everything. But that’s why we need better balance in the abilities and sorts we have and more leadership in the group, along with playing people in their natural positions and in roles they can actually deliver.

[Worthy4England]

We leaked 51 league goals and no one seems to want any defenders.

The season before we conceded 36, which this season would have been the best defensive record in the league.

Same defenders.

Don't recall Roy rocking up for too many games.

Can't beat a bit of selective quoting. You know the bit where I said "Don't mind where we solve it." My point, as you well know, is if we don't solve it with new defenders, then we need to look elsewhere in the defensive unit

It clearly can't just be a Maghoma clone, because we had an actual Maghoma, this season. Did I mention how many we leaked this year and that it would have veen the second highest GA of the last 15 promoted teams?

Go look at our line up the season before. Sheehan was mainly injured. Didn't start a lot. Quite a few we played Iredale LWB and had Duracell Bradley on the other side. Early doors, MJ was playing. Johnston played most. Again early, I thought Thommo worked as much at 6 as he did at 8.

Completely different.

[GhostoftheBok]

Go look at our line up the season before. Sheehan was mainly injured. Didn't start a lot. Quite a few we played Iredale LWB and had Duracell Bradley on the other side. Early doors, MJ was playing. Johnston played most. Again early, I thought Thommo worked as much at 6 as he did at 8.

Completely different.

Not a bit of selective quoting. Just making the basic point that the players we have available next season have shown they can defend without a world class mid in front of them.

The suggestion around the place has been, basically, that members of this group simply can't defend. That's demonstrably false.

Of course defending is a team job. Evatt has a number of options as to how he finds that balance. He needs to pick one and get it right.

[Prufrock]

Given how good he was generally I think it's easy to understate how good Bradley was defensively. Evatt was clearly frustrated with JDC after the final, talking about how they'd said their wingers wanted to come inside. It's hypothetical, and only one example, but I don't think we concede that goal with Bradley for example.

I like JDC, he's done well. I'm fact, assuming he was bought as second choice he's done incredibly well. But if we're sticking with a back 3 (or rather, a front two), he can't be the answer.

It's all sliding doors but I do wonder if Kane Wilson decided who finished second (in more ways than one!). Margins margins.

[jimbo]

There is imo a lack of realism in ‘make santos a better leader’. It doesn’t work like that. He’s in his late twenties has played no higher than this level (for good reason) and lacks the mental focus and concentration across a season and even within games.

You can’t suddenly turn a switch or make him into a leader. He has enough problems in his own game.

Same with JDC - he’s a lad who is what he is. He’s not going to suddenly add the ability to ping great crosses in from all over. We are dealing with lower league players here.

That’s fine. I’m not expecting them to be able to do everything. But that’s why we need better balance in the abilities and sorts we have and more leadership in the group, along with playing people in their natural positions and in roles they can actually deliver.

What you say about balancing abilities is correct and is what’s going to make the summer more tricky. We’re not going to be able to find someone who has numerous outstanding attributes in league 1. We might end up solving one problem while creating others.

Sheehan is an interesting one. I completely accept he can be useless in ‘tough’ games and go missing, but I’m not sure the answer is swapping him with Karl Henry mark II. Sheehan’s range of passing and vision is outstanding, and it would be a shame to lose that. Could we maybe look at the two alongside him in those bigger games, and expect them to give him a bit more protection? Maybe flit between 2 sixes and an 8, and a 6 and 2 eights depending on circumstance. We could end up with Henry in there who can break up play but then quickly give the ball back to the opposition.

[Worthy4England]

Go look at our line up the season before. Sheehan was mainly injured. Didn't start a lot. Quite a few we played Iredale LWB and had Duracell Bradley on the other side. Early doors, MJ was playing. Johnston played most. Again early, I thought Thommo worked as much at 6 as he did at 8.

Completely different.

Not a bit of selective quoting. Just making the basic point that the players we have available next season have shown they can defend without a world class mid in front of them.

The suggestion around the place has been, basically, that members of this group simply can't defend. That's demonstrably false.

Of course defending is a team job. Evatt has a number of options as to how he finds that balance. He needs to pick one and get it right.

Well, it was a bit selective!

I agree, we don't necessarily need a world class DM. But last year's defensive unit to me, were all better defensively - probably including Traff.

Defensively:

Traff > Baxter
Bradley > JDC
Iredale > Williams
MJ > Sheehan
And if Thommo drops to 6, then one more for good measure.
Santos = Santos
GT > Toal as LCB
GJ < Toal as RCB

So if JDC, Williams, Sheehan, Baxter, Santos are constants, the same Maghoma isn't likely to solve it. It will need something else, IMO. Coz MJ wasn't the only difference and he ain't Roy Keane.

[Worthy4England]

There is imo a lack of realism in ‘make santos a better leader’. It doesn’t work like that. He’s in his late twenties has played no higher than this level (for good reason) and lacks the mental focus and concentration across a season and even within games.

You can’t suddenly turn a switch or make him into a leader. He has enough problems in his own game.

Same with JDC - he’s a lad who is what he is. He’s not going to suddenly add the ability to ping great crosses in from all over. We are dealing with lower league players here.

That’s fine. I’m not expecting them to be able to do everything. But that’s why we need better balance in the abilities and sorts we have and more leadership in the group, along with playing people in their natural positions and in roles they can actually deliver.

What you say about balancing abilities is correct and is what’s going to make the summer more tricky. We’re not going to be able to find someone who has numerous outstanding attributes in league 1. We might end up solving one problem while creating others.

Sheehan is an interesting one. I completely accept he can be useless in ‘tough’ games and go missing, but I’m not sure the answer is swapping him with Karl Henry mark II. Sheehan’s range of passing and vision is outstanding, and it would be a shame to lose that. Could we maybe look at the two alongside him in those bigger games, and expect them to give him a bit more protection? Maybe flit between 2 sixes and an 8, and a 6 and 2 eights depending on circumstance. We could end up with Henry in there who can break up play but then quickly give the ball back to the opposition.

That's probably more akin to my thinking, assuming we don't switch to 4.