Should I(E) stay or should I(E) go?

[GhostoftheBok]

Any links?

You should be able to just click on the tweets, mate.

[BWFC_Insane]

It was some night the wolves game. A horrible pitch. A very physical, strong and direct wolves side. It was a horrible horrible slog of a tie. First leg we were lucky to come away still in the tie but 2-1 down - we’d already done that against Swindon over two legs. But it was incredibly tight. Scrambles in the box, scraps. Great stuff tbh. We had a lot of injuries too.

We won the final with 4 forwards strung out across the park, barely a midfield. It was just the sheer character and will of those players that dragged us out of the semi and through that final. Nothing else.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Perusing this week's issue of The New European last night as part of the sporadic but ongoing attempts to fill my head with Not Wanderers, I read Simon Barnes' Champions League final preview and one paragraph, about #narrative, made me think of this forum.

This is how the fabulous fabled fable-telling machinery of sport works: and, as the former England captain Mike Brearley explained, as soon as we know the result it will at once seem a) inevitable and b) morally appropriate.

I'd never thought of it quite like that before, but it seems to stack up. We all know full well that after every defeat there will be those who pore over the smashed remains of the body, pointing out the things they warned about before every game. What I hadn't quite worked out until this summer was how many (and how deeply) people feel the "morally appropriate" part – some with a fervour approaching religiosity. Does Evatt deserve to die of hubris? Were we always doomed to failure? Or were we the third-best team over 46 games who f**ked up at the last?

[Worthy4England]

Perusing this week's issue of The New European last night as part of the sporadic but ongoing attempts to fill my head with Not Wanderers, I read Simon Barnes' Champions League final preview and one paragraph, about #narrative, made me think of this forum.

This is how the fabulous fabled fable-telling machinery of sport works: and, as the former England captain Mike Brearley explained, as soon as we know the result it will at once seem a) inevitable and b) morally appropriate.

I'd never thought of it quite like that before, but it seems to stack up. We all know full well that after every defeat there will be those who pore over the smashed remains of the body, pointing out the things they warned about before every game. What I hadn't quite worked out until this summer was how many (and how deeply) people feel the "morally appropriate" part – some with a fervour approaching religiosity. Does Evatt deserve to die of hubris? Were we always doomed to failure? Or were we the third-best team over 46 games who f**ked up at the last?

Well. In terms of both part a) and b) whilst we fcuked up at the last this year, we also fcuked up at the last the season prior. Litlle bit like 4-0 defeats to Wigan or a scruffy 0-1 to Burton. It's a bit of a nonesense from Mike, this one. If you go out in the play-offs two years running, the team creates the story, not the fans.

Some folks watch footy and focus on the things we did well, some focus on what we did poorly (I'm certainly in that group), but it's not so I can say "Told you," although that might be a byproduct, coz I doubt there's a way to say "We knew Burton were going to lob balls in," without it sounding like "I told you." When I played a bit of cricket, I was rarely overly pleased by doing stuff well, that I knew I could do pretty well, the improvement is going to be pretty marginal. The analogy to the "Lots of goals thing is, if I clobbered a few straight for 6, hitting them further still only gets me 6. I'm not lining them up for Tuesday's nets. I'm lining up the shit bits (there were some long nets ). It's just the way I'm wired. You wouldn't believe how many times my old man said "what are you doing playing THAT shot." I have no problem with being called out for something I should have known not to do. I know I'd much prefer to be in the hyper-critical team, that was usually the self-motivating one that got promoted and won leagues and cups.

I liked Mike as a Captain. Probably not the strongest batsman but a very good man manager.

[BWFC_Insane]

Yeah a team that by its own admission hasn’t turned up for the big games on a consistent basis is doing that for a reason. The conditions and environment the manager has created are driving those performances and results.

It’s not like Oxford was one thing out of the blue. We’ve spent two seasons talking about this.

[TANGODANCER]

Second verse, same as first..All together now...

[nicholaldo]

Perusing this week's issue of The New European last night as part of the sporadic but ongoing attempts to fill my head with Not Wanderers, I read Simon Barnes' Champions League final preview and one paragraph, about #narrative, made me think of this forum.

This is how the fabulous fabled fable-telling machinery of sport works: and, as the former England captain Mike Brearley explained, as soon as we know the result it will at once seem a) inevitable and b) morally appropriate.

I'd never thought of it quite like that before, but it seems to stack up. We all know full well that after every defeat there will be those who pore over the smashed remains of the body, pointing out the things they warned about before every game. What I hadn't quite worked out until this summer was how many (and how deeply) people feel the "morally appropriate" part – some with a fervour approaching religiosity. Does Evatt deserve to die of hubris? Were we always doomed to failure? Or were we the third-best team over 46 games who f**ked up at the last?

Well. In terms of both part a) and b) whilst we fcuked up at the last this year, we also fcuked up at the last the season prior. Litlle bit like 4-0 defeats to Wigan or a scruffy 0-1 to Burton. It's a bit of a nonesense from Mike, this one. If you go out in the play-offs two years running, the team creates the story, not the fans.

Some folks watch footy and focus on the things we did well, some focus on what we did poorly (I'm certainly in that group), but it's not so I can say "Told you," although that might be a byproduct, coz I doubt there's a way to say "We knew Burton were going to lob balls in," without it sounding like "I told you." When I played a bit of cricket, I was rarely overly pleased by doing stuff well, that I knew I could do pretty well, the improvement is going to be pretty marginal. The analogy to the "Lots of goals thing is, if I clobbered a few straight for 6, hitting them further still only gets me 6. I'm not lining them up for Tuesday's nets. I'm lining up the shit bits (there were some long nets ). It's just the way I'm wired. You wouldn't believe how many times my old man said "what are you doing playing THAT shot." I have no problem with being called out for something I should have known not to do. I know I'd much prefer to be in the hyper-critical team, that was usually the self-motivating one that got promoted and won leagues and cups.

I liked Mike as a Captain. Probably not the strongest batsman but a very good man manager.

A good post.

[Mar]

Yeah a team that by its own admission hasn’t turned up for the big games on a consistent basis is doing that for a reason. The conditions and environment the manager has created are driving those performances and results.

It’s not like Oxford was one thing out of the blue. We’ve spent two seasons talking about this.

What's the solution?

Saying new manager wouldn't cut it as the new manager would have to apply those changes to the current contracted squad or even bringing in new players would have to adhere to some new strategy.

I see Evatt as a 90 percent of the way there sort of manager.

Relying upon an over the hill Jerome was an interesting but flawed choice. Perhaps the reliance on JDBs fitness was a mistake also.

Weve had moments throughout the season that required game changers coming off the bench and we just didn't take advantage of them. Unlike the Bod Baka season we were considerably short of making up a gap or turning things in our favour.

Regardless of our off days there should've been some noticeable changes to sway the game in our favour and I can't remember many instances save for the Barnsley draw that curtailed their season

[BWFC_Insane]

Yeah a team that by its own admission hasn’t turned up for the big games on a consistent basis is doing that for a reason. The conditions and environment the manager has created are driving those performances and results.

It’s not like Oxford was one thing out of the blue. We’ve spent two seasons talking about this.

What's the solution?

Saying new manager wouldn't cut it as the new manager would have to apply those changes to the current contracted squad or even bringing in new players would have to adhere to some new strategy.

I see Evatt as a 90 percent of the way there sort of manager.

Relying upon an over the hill Jerome was an interesting but flawed choice. Perhaps the reliance on JDBs fitness was a mistake also.

Weve had moments throughout the season that required game changers coming off the bench and we just didn't take advantage of them. Unlike the Bod Baka season we were considerably short of making up a gap or turning things in our favour.

Regardless of our off days there should've been some noticeable changes to sway the game in our favour and I can't remember many instances save for the Barnsley draw that curtailed their season

I think the flaws we have had are inherent in Evatts approach and character. I suspect he can learn over time but I think he’s hit a ceiling here.

I think a new manager is the only way we will see success next season and I don’t think we need a huge change in the squad if we got a manager with experience who brought a different character and approach.

But with Evatt here I suspect it will need a huge overhaul.

[Worthy4England]

I think there's been little shortage of solutions offered (just by Insano ). Apparently they range from a Sean Dyche parody, to stick and hold your hand.

It's sorta down to "belief" right now, because there are decent arguments, both sides.

We could do with something from the Club that lets us know which way the land lies - it's been 2 weeks now - even though I think it's going to be "stick" - you know, the sort, "we know where we need to strengthen, blah, blah."

That would at least take one option off the table, even if some folks don't like it.

[Bertie Wooster]

I think there's been little shortage of solutions offered (just by Insano ). Apparently they range from a Sean Dyche parody, to stick and hold your hand.

It's sorta down to "belief" right now, because there are decent arguments, both sides.

We could do with something from the Club that lets us know which way the land lies - it's been 2 weeks now - even though I think it's going to be "stick" - you know, the sort, "we know where we need to strengthen, blah, blah."

That would at least take one option off the table, even if some folks don't like it.

I think we would have heard something by now if Evatt had left, however as you say the club should have come out with something to galvanise the fans, the apathy around town about the manager & team is telling & it will only get worse as the silence continues.

As I've said before the PR from the club since Wembley is awful, it almost like they are just hoping that the apathy & hurt felt by the fans will go away, when its actually getting worse by the day.

[BWFC_Insane]

On belief - do people genuinely believe Evatt will win promotion next season given what seem likely budgetary constraints and knowing the other teams in this league?

Because I’m seeing a lot of ‘we don’t want anyone else’ but few people who genuinely seem to think that will be the outcome.

[Bertie Wooster]

On belief - do people genuinely believe Evatt will win promotion next season given what seem likely budgetary constraints and knowing the other teams in this league?

Because I’m seeing a lot of ‘we don’t want anyone else’ but few people who genuinely seem to think that will be the outcome.

No not with the same team & tactics.

What I'm saying about apathy around town is genuine, lots of fans at the moment are not really interested in the club / team, it may change after a signing or two, but at the moment I've not spoke to any fans who think that we'll go up without change.

I'll be honest there are plenty who still think Evatt's the man, but even they say unless he changes and brings in different types of players & different tactics we won't go up - everybody is still really piss*d off.

[dave the minion]

do people genuinely believe Evatt will win promotion next season given what seem likely budgetary constraints and knowing the other teams in this league?

Yup. Genuinely think we will. Couple of half-decent signings, hold onto the core of the team. Upward trajectory continues and we go up in the automatics.

You heard it here first, and you can thank me later...

[BWFC_Insane]

do people genuinely believe Evatt will win promotion next season given what seem likely budgetary constraints and knowing the other teams in this league?

Yup. Genuinely think we will. Couple of half-decent signings, hold onto the core of the team. Upward trajectory continues and we go up in the automatics.

You heard it here first, and you can thank me later...

That’s fine but one assumes we might have to lose a couple and might not have much money given early indications we probably can’t afford the planned safe standing work.

It is going to be a season where we need to over perform against teams with likely better squads and more resources and under an immense amount of pressure.

And can I ask what would happen if again we missed out?

[irie Cee Bee]

The squad is competitive. There will be changes to it, no doubt about that. Already 4 are confirmed gone.. Jerome, DadBod, Maghoma and Ogbeta. I would think we will have to cash in on either Charles or Ade to balance the book and get a few solid replacements in for those who have left. The league this year will be more competitive with strong teams coming up and coming down into the league, but I am sure we can compete with the squad we have.

Can we get promoted with Evatt in charge. I doubt it, and my reason is his stubbornness and proven lack of tactical nuance. He has been found out. There is now a clear blueprint out there as to how to play against Bolton. The top teams will do it successfully against us and Evatt has demonstrated he knows no other way to counter it. His tactic of the press, forwards running themselves into the ground to be substituted at 70 mins, drives me crazy. Making 3 changes at half time when things get tough, as Derby did against us, to find a way to win, is very unEvatt. Likewise, standing up and saying "I got my tactics wrong on the day" is very unEvatt.

Nothing personal, I like him, but I think he has to show more tactical awareness and able to outthink other mangers. This s is where I feel he is below the standard needed. Can he learn, yes as he is still relatively young in the game. But he has to get rid of "the players need to figure it out on the field" and take more responsibility because it is his responsibility to help them find a way to win.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Yeah, I think we can get promoted with Evatt this coming season.

If I didn't believe that I wouldn't have voted "Stay".

[Mar]

Yeah a team that by its own admission hasn’t turned up for the big games on a consistent basis is doing that for a reason. The conditions and environment the manager has created are driving those performances and results.

It’s not like Oxford was one thing out of the blue. We’ve spent two seasons talking about this.

What's the solution?

Saying new manager wouldn't cut it as the new manager would have to apply those changes to the current contracted squad or even bringing in new players would have to adhere to some new strategy.

I see Evatt as a 90 percent of the way there sort of manager.

Relying upon an over the hill Jerome was an interesting but flawed choice. Perhaps the reliance on JDBs fitness was a mistake also.

Weve had moments throughout the season that required game changers coming off the bench and we just didn't take advantage of them. Unlike the Bod Baka season we were considerably short of making up a gap or turning things in our favour.

Regardless of our off days there should've been some noticeable changes to sway the game in our favour and I can't remember many instances save for the Barnsley draw that curtailed their season

I think the flaws we have had are inherent in Evatts approach and character. I suspect he can learn over time but I think he’s hit a ceiling here.

I think a new manager is the only way we will see success next season and I don’t think we need a huge change in the squad if we got a manager with experience who brought a different character and approach.

But with Evatt here I suspect it will need a huge overhaul.

I suspect the defeat to Oxford will be the wake up call Evatt needed. It'll be a humbling defeat no doubt about it and if anything would likely hurt his pride and ego I suspect that result would be it.

How can it be that in the space of a few short months that a team that won 5 nil against the same opposition fail to register a shot on target in the most pivotal match. That would be a massive wake up call.

Evatt may have gone into that final thinking we play our game in our way and we win, failing to take into account the opposition strategy. As soon as our game wasn't working there was no strategy to counter their strategy. Almost as if it's reading a chess board on the current turn and not moves ahead.

I think Evatt will learn from it. The players I'm not so sure. They'll have their ups and downs and no doubt correct some failings but to consistently win against top opposition in the league will take some doing. There needs to be some captain material in there. Weve seen bits from Thomason, Dempsey, but not enough from the squad. We need the structure to be right to drag us over the line when not performing, not wilting against the likes of Wigan or Carlisle.

I think Evatt can get us promoted. It seems a tougher ask than last season certainly but time will tell what the transfer market brings.

At the moment I'm not looking forward to next season. Apathy and anger have set in, the club have responded poorly, as in not at all, and the lack of performance will linger. Perhaps this break will do the players good, perhaps not, but unless we start well next season we'll struggle to remove the stink from last season.

Maybe the no shot final will leave the lasting legacy for Evatt. Hopefully not as it tarnishes the good coming before it. At the minute that's Megson surrendering Europe or Keith Hills diatribe level of remembrance.

[Bertie Wooster]

Not sure what to make of Markham's tweet last night congratulating Ms Brittan on an award.

Good times are coming
Onwards and upwards

[BWFC_Insane]

Yeah a team that by its own admission hasn’t turned up for the big games on a consistent basis is doing that for a reason. The conditions and environment the manager has created are driving those performances and results.

It’s not like Oxford was one thing out of the blue. We’ve spent two seasons talking about this.

What's the solution?

Saying new manager wouldn't cut it as the new manager would have to apply those changes to the current contracted squad or even bringing in new players would have to adhere to some new strategy.

I see Evatt as a 90 percent of the way there sort of manager.

Relying upon an over the hill Jerome was an interesting but flawed choice. Perhaps the reliance on JDBs fitness was a mistake also.

Weve had moments throughout the season that required game changers coming off the bench and we just didn't take advantage of them. Unlike the Bod Baka season we were considerably short of making up a gap or turning things in our favour.

Regardless of our off days there should've been some noticeable changes to sway the game in our favour and I can't remember many instances save for the Barnsley draw that curtailed their season

I think the flaws we have had are inherent in Evatts approach and character. I suspect he can learn over time but I think he’s hit a ceiling here.

I think a new manager is the only way we will see success next season and I don’t think we need a huge change in the squad if we got a manager with experience who brought a different character and approach.

But with Evatt here I suspect it will need a huge overhaul.

I suspect the defeat to Oxford will be the wake up call Evatt needed. It'll be a humbling defeat no doubt about it and if anything would likely hurt his pride and ego I suspect that result would be it.

How can it be that in the space of a few short months that a team that won 5 nil against the same opposition fail to register a shot on target in the most pivotal match. That would be a massive wake up call.

Evatt may have gone into that final thinking we play our game in our way and we win, failing to take into account the opposition strategy. As soon as our game wasn't working there was no strategy to counter their strategy. Almost as if it's reading a chess board on the current turn and not moves ahead.

I think Evatt will learn from it. The players I'm not so sure. They'll have their ups and downs and no doubt correct some failings but to consistently win against top opposition in the league will take some doing. There needs to be some captain material in there. Weve seen bits from Thomason, Dempsey, but not enough from the squad. We need the structure to be right to drag us over the line when not performing, not wilting against the likes of Wigan or Carlisle.

I think Evatt can get us promoted. It seems a tougher ask than last season certainly but time will tell what the transfer market brings.

At the moment I'm not looking forward to next season. Apathy and anger have set in, the club have responded poorly, as in not at all, and the lack of performance will linger. Perhaps this break will do the players good, perhaps not, but unless we start well next season we'll struggle to remove the stink from last season.

Maybe the no shot final will leave the lasting legacy for Evatt. Hopefully not as it tarnishes the good coming before it. At the minute that's Megson surrendering Europe or Keith Hills diatribe level of remembrance.

It’s not one game. It’s the entire mentality and approach he’s had here. None of it as it stands will get us promoted. It needs a reinvention and I’m just not convinced Evatt has that in him here. Needs to do a few jobs to build his experience.

When the going got tough Evatt showed cracks in his belief and the team reflected this in their performances.