Should I(E) stay or should I(E) go?

[Prufrock]

You'd think for us the money isn't in our academy itself given geography, it's the "didn't quite make its" at those bigger clubs. The likes of a Shoretire or an Mbete. Not good enough it turned out as loanees who you need to make a difference, but as a sixth midfielder or sixth centre half to start with. They're a gamble, but if they weren't everyone would do it! I don't necessarily mean then individually, but as a profile.

[Prufrock]

Sure, not to get into a pissing contest around the actual numbers, I thought the notion was to make significantly more on sales, to fund the improvements.

Yup. Doesn't help when your most likely asset does its knee - Johnston last time and Dion this.

As others have rightly said, a selling model can go wrong for some time due to injuries. You're really judging it over 5+ years. We're arguably now in year 2-3.

This summer who is there? Thommo, Vic, Santos, Toal...not so much beyond that for this summer and we (as a club) probably want to keep them all.

Next summer is a bit more promising - Collins, Charles, Johnston, Forrester, CMG, Nludnulu, Morley, etc can all be added to the "Might fetch us a few bob" list. Still need to add more this summer.

As Posh keep showing, the real money is in fast, skilful attackers under the age of 25. We don't really do those, as a football club. Last time we had close to that Posh profile someone gave us about £3m for Clough.

That's a big part of my 433 drum banging! Wingers are where the money is. Perhaps for another thread...

[BWFC_Insane]

You'd think for us the money isn't in our academy itself given geography, it's the "didn't quite make its" at those bigger clubs. The likes of a Shoretire or an Mbete. Not good enough it turned out as loanees who you need to make a difference, but as a sixth midfielder or sixth centre half to start with. They're a gamble, but if they weren't everyone would do it! I don't necessarily mean then individually, but as a profile.

The trouble is that’s needle in a haystack and you should see the wages these players are on….

I don’t think it’s a viable plan really

[GhostoftheBok]

That's a big part of my 433 drum banging! Wingers are where the money is. Perhaps for another thread...

The biggest money is in strikers. So in that sense playing two of them is better, no?

Regardless, we've probably done that one to death. What matters right now is whether Markham and chums can find the quality we need to have a proper shot again - whichever system we play.

We do need financial assets, but that comes from having players performing on the football pitch.

Can we get this lot (CMG, Dion, Nlundulu, etc) fit? Can we add quality to the group?

[BWFC_Insane]

We’ve no shortage of good players. There are places the squad looks unbalanced but for me the issue is mentality.

But that aside it’s about forging a team that is stronger than the sum of its parts. Last season we relied on individual parts being brilliant. We didn’t have a team. To go up you need a team not a group of individuals.

[Worthy4England]

Sure, not to get into a pissing contest around the actual numbers, I thought the notion was to make significantly more on sales, to fund the improvements.

Yup. Doesn't help when your most likely asset does its knee - Johnston last time and Dion this.

As others have rightly said, a selling model can go wrong for some time due to injuries. You're really judging it over 5+ years. We're arguably now in year 2-3.

This summer who is there? Thommo, Vic, Santos, Toal...not so much beyond that for this summer and we (as a club) probably want to keep them all.

Next summer is a bit more promising - Collins, Charles, Johnston, Forrester, CMG, Nludnulu, Morley, etc can all be added to the "Might fetch us a few bob" list. Still need to add more this summer.

As Posh keep showing, the real money is in fast, skilful attackers under the age of 25. We don't really do those, as a football club. Last time we had close to that Posh profile someone gave us about £3m for Clough.

Is it my imagination, or is the length of the plan (5+ years), getting longer, whilst the amount of time we've been on it (2-3 years), getting shorter?

I think it needs to shit or get off the pot next season. I can already hear the "It would be stupid to change now" being lined up for the end of the season.

[BWFC_Insane]

Sure, not to get into a pissing contest around the actual numbers, I thought the notion was to make significantly more on sales, to fund the improvements.

Yup. Doesn't help when your most likely asset does its knee - Johnston last time and Dion this.

As others have rightly said, a selling model can go wrong for some time due to injuries. You're really judging it over 5+ years. We're arguably now in year 2-3.

This summer who is there? Thommo, Vic, Santos, Toal...not so much beyond that for this summer and we (as a club) probably want to keep them all.

Next summer is a bit more promising - Collins, Charles, Johnston, Forrester, CMG, Nludnulu, Morley, etc can all be added to the "Might fetch us a few bob" list. Still need to add more this summer.

As Posh keep showing, the real money is in fast, skilful attackers under the age of 25. We don't really do those, as a football club. Last time we had close to that Posh profile someone gave us about £3m for Clough.

Is it my imagination, or is the length of the plan (5+ years), getting longer, whilst the amount of time we've been on it (2-3 years), getting shorter?

I think it needs to shit or get off the pot next season. I can already hear the "It would be stupid to change now" being lined up for the end of the season.

Sharon said in her interview that next season is ‘year 6 and she didn’t want to be in league one for it’.

So the 5 year plan is already broken.

[GhostoftheBok]

Is it my imagination, or is the length of the plan (5+ years), getting longer, whilst the amount of time we've been on it (2-3 years), getting shorter?

I think it needs to shit or get off the pot next season. I can already hear the "It would be stupid to change now" being lined up for the end of the season.

It's your imagination.

We were supposed to be in the Championship by now, which might be "the plan" you mean.

The transfers and sustainability model started to be put into practice well after Markham arrived, after they'd sorted out the main recruitment and scouting issues.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

You'd think for us the money isn't in our academy itself given geography, it's the "didn't quite make its" at those bigger clubs. The likes of a Shoretire or an Mbete. Not good enough it turned out as loanees who you need to make a difference, but as a sixth midfielder or sixth centre half to start with. They're a gamble, but if they weren't everyone would do it! I don't necessarily mean then individually, but as a profile.

Dapo, basically. Although perhaps not with the peripatetic route to the Premier side's youth team

[GhostoftheBok]

The "we can't run an academy because of our location" is totally belied by the likes of Wigan and Charlton.

It used to be true, because we ran a Premier League academy in the most stupid away possible - only caring about producing first teamers for Sam and not running it like its own business.

Running an academy as a talent factory, with players moving on for fees or with sell-on clauses, is the way you work.

Charlton have two academy products in the England team at the minute and their academy turns a profit - despite being in the apparently impossible catchment area of London.

I get a bit sick of the arse-covering stuff that used to be put out by our academy staff being taken as gospel. It is more challenging to attract the top regional talent here, but it's not impossible to run a successful (profitable) academy.

Plenty of players who have gone through our academy system went on to have very good careers - we just didn't make money off them. That's a business issue, not a talent issue.

While we talk about it being impossible Blackburn, Wigan and Burnley just get on with it.

[Bertie Wooster]

How many games next season do we think Evatt will get if things don't start well before the fans turn ?

My opinion is 5 or 6.

[Worthy4England]

^^ Going to reserve judgement until fixture list published...Pies at home, tricky Brum, a Wtexham away etc. In first 10, might have some bearing....

[BWFC_Insane]

The "we can't run an academy because of our location" is totally belied by the likes of Wigan and Charlton.

It used to be true, because we ran a Premier League academy in the most stupid away possible - only caring about producing first teamers for Sam and not running it like its own business.

Running an academy as a talent factory, with players moving on for fees or with sell-on clauses, is the way you work.

Charlton have two academy products in the England team at the minute and their academy turns a profit - despite being in the apparently impossible catchment area of London.

I get a bit sick of the arse-covering stuff that used to be put out by our academy staff being taken as gospel. It is more challenging to attract the top regional talent here, but it's not impossible to run a successful (profitable) academy.

Plenty of players who have gone through our academy system went on to have very good careers - we just didn't make money off them. That's a business issue, not a talent issue.

While we talk about it being impossible Blackburn, Wigan and Burnley just get on with it.

I think an academy is different to trying to get the cream of the ‘rejects’ from round local academies. The latter is very difficult given geography though no shortage of resource could be spent trying.

Running a proper academy always would be the preference as well done it should pay for itself. I always had the impression (and opinion of others) that JP wasn’t the right choice, though he is a thoroughly nice bloke.

[GhostoftheBok]

^^ Going to reserve judgement until fixture list published...Pies at home, tricky Brum, a Wtexham away etc. In first 10, might have some bearing....

I suppose the counter to that is that if we lose all those we're no better off than we were this season.

Weirdly, I wouldn't mind Brum early - before their new boss has had time to get everything sorted.

[Bertie Wooster]

^^ Going to reserve judgement until fixture list published...Pies at home, tricky Brum, a Wtexham away etc. In first 10, might have some bearing....

I don't think that the fixtures matter at all, if we are not in the top 10 after the 1st 5-6 games I think that the fans will turn on Evatt.

[Worthy4England]

^^ Going to reserve judgement until fixture list published...Pies at home, tricky Brum, a Wtexham away etc. In first 10, might have some bearing....

I don't think that the fixtures matter at all, if we are not in the top 10 after the 1st 5-6 games I think that the fans will turn on Evatt.

Long transfer window, but yeah outside top 10 would be up there with disaster scenario after 6...don't think it'll happen..

[Worthy4England]

^^ Going to reserve judgement until fixture list published...Pies at home, tricky Brum, a Wtexham away etc. In first 10, might have some bearing....

I suppose the counter to that is that if we lose all those we're no better off than we were this season.

Weirdly, I wouldn't mind Brum early - before their new boss has had time to get everything sorted.

And the counter to that is we're supposed to be learning and not making the same mistakes. Only getting bummed 2-0 to Pies at home, I'd have in the big book of "feck off" on the learning front...

[GhostoftheBok]

And the counter to that is we're supposed to be learning and not making the same mistakes. Only getting bummed 2-0 to Pies at home, I'd have in the big book of "feck off" on the learning front...

I think we're saying the same thing.

If we write-off a bad start because we're losing "difficult" games then we're not ahead of this season and thus not on track to go up.

[Worthy4England]

And the counter to that is we're supposed to be learning and not making the same mistakes. Only getting bummed 2-0 to Pies at home, I'd have in the big book of "feck off" on the learning front...

I think we're saying the same thing.

If we write-off a bad start because we're losing "difficult" games then we're not ahead of this season and thus not on track to go up.

Ahh. Quite. I shall not be writing much off this season. Benefit of the doubt was last.

[Prufrock]

That's a big part of my 433 drum banging! Wingers are where the money is. Perhaps for another thread...

The biggest money is in strikers. So in that sense playing two of them is better, no?

Regardless, we've probably done that one to death. What matters right now is whether Markham and chums can find the quality we need to have a proper shot again - whichever system we play.

We do need financial assets, but that comes from having players performing on the football pitch.

Can we get this lot (CMG, Dion, Nlundulu, etc) fit? Can we add quality to the group?

I'm not sure there's much between strikers and wingers . 3>2.