Between the lines. Home to Reading, Sat 21st Sept/ 3'oclock.

[TonyDomingos]

I saw this quote from Evatt in the BN earlier:

"And I am not naïve to think that if we don’t win the next six games that things will change. Do I think we are capable of that? Absolutely, probably discounting Arsenal, I don’t think that is quite as realistic."

Got me wondering whether he's been set a six game target. Anyone aware? (Apols if this has already been raised)

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/2 ... ers-start/

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I saw this quote from Evatt in the BN earlier:

"And I am not naïve to think that if we don’t win the next six games that things will change. Do I think we are capable of that? Absolutely, probably discounting Arsenal, I don’t think that is quite as realistic."

Got me wondering whether he's been set a six game target. Anyone aware? (Apols if this has already been raised)

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/2 ... ers-start/

There were a few interesting quotes this morning (from yesterday's presser) but I've been a bit too busy to dig in. Maybe later.

The next six are Reading (H), Arsenal (A, LC3), Crawley (A), Northampton (A), Shrewsbury (H) and Villa Kids (H, EFLT G2) – then it's the international break (Stevenage away very likely to be postponed). So yes, a team seeking automatic promotion should win all six of those bar Arsenal. And he's therefore right IMO to think the dark cloud won't lift without a string of wins.

What's the more interesting hypothetical is whether the mood will improve even if they do. And while only results matter, it's hard not think that other less tangible things - "attitude" and "desire" and so on - will also come into play.

[BWFC_Insane]

I’m clearly no fan of Evatt but I don’t agree with a board giving a manager ‘x’ number of games. It makes no sense. Surely it has to be a decision against target. Arbitrary numbers of games just create a mess. 5 wins followed by 5 defeats for example. Do you reset the clock?

Managers imho have to be judged not on winning runs but on their ability to get teams where they need to be more often than not. Some of the most destructive spells of management involve ‘nearly men’. See derby as a classic example. Lampard a nearly man. Almost killed the club.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Lampard didn't nearly kill Derby, Mel Morris did.

I agree that "6 games to save the job" is rarely a good idea – it simply makes a drama out of a crisis. But Evatt's quotes thusly do interest me, in the spirit of those old ladies who sat knitting by the guillotine.

If she's said he's got to get say 10pts from the four league games or clear his desk, that seems to me to be "a decision against target". The big target is clearly promotion; maybe she's said if you don't get these numbers by then, someone else gets the job.

And what are the alternatives now? Given that Sharon didn't sack him last weekend, she had to either give him a timescale to turn it round or simply let him think he can keep his job as long as he likes. The latter seems daft; I would rather she gave him six games to pull his socks up so far that his balls are nestling in them.

[Bertie Wooster]

It's a huge game for Evatt, I do suspect that if we lose then he may be relieved of his duties this weekend. I 100% think that Craddock was the wrong choice, it was the easy choice we should have brought in a more senior external coach to challenge Evatt.

I'm not sure of his (Craddock) influence v Evatt's influence in regards to style of play, player attitude, intensity, tempo, training, messaging etc. but we are going to find out tomorrow. I fully expect a 3-0 win, and a slight break in the dark clouds - however if we don't win if he thought last weekend was bad then....

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

It's a huge game for Evatt, I do suspect that if we lose then he may be relieved of his duties this weekend. I 100% think that Craddock was the wrong choice, it was the easy choice we should have brought in a more senior external coach to challenge Evatt.

I'm not sure of his (Craddock) influence v Evatt's influence in regards to style of play, player attitude, intensity, tempo, training, messaging etc. but we are going to find out tomorrow. I fully expect a 3-0 win, and a slight break in the dark clouds - however if we don't win if he thought last weekend was bad then....

I was slightly disappointed when Craddock got the job, but I had to trust the process, as it were. It would seem odd to interview applicants and not choose the best one, and as I wasn't party to the process, I had to believe he was the best man for the job.

Results seem to indicate he perhaps wasn't - which might mean we missed Sam Hird, but then again Hird's appointment also made me slightly suspicious (another old boy? really?) so it shows it can go either way.

I don't believe first team coaches generally have much influence at all on "style of play", to use Bertie's words. They can make the plan be executed better, but it's not their plan. (I can also see how experts can hugely improve specific skill-sets - there was an extraordinary stat after last week's North London derby that since they nicked a set-piece expert from Man City in summer 2021, Arsenal have broken the deadlock 19 times from corners; in all, they've scored 24 set-piece goals since summer 2023 alone.)

I am more than half-expecting a tactical change. It might be a reversion to last season's 3-1-4-2. It might even be back four. I think he knows he has to change something, and not just sacking a patsy.

[Mar]

It's a huge game for Evatt, I do suspect that if we lose then he may be relieved of his duties this weekend. I 100% think that Craddock was the wrong choice, it was the easy choice we should have brought in a more senior external coach to challenge Evatt.

I'm not sure of his (Craddock) influence v Evatt's influence in regards to style of play, player attitude, intensity, tempo, training, messaging etc. but we are going to find out tomorrow. I fully expect a 3-0 win, and a slight break in the dark clouds - however if we don't win if he thought last weekend was bad then....

I was slightly disappointed when Craddock got the job, but I had to trust the process, as it were. It would seem odd to interview applicants and not choose the best one, and as I wasn't party to the process, I had to believe he was the best man for the job.

Results seem to indicate he perhaps wasn't - which might mean we missed Sam Hird, but then again Hird's appointment also made me slightly suspicious (another old boy? really?) so it shows it can go either way.

I don't believe first team coaches generally have much influence at all on "style of play", to use Bertie's words. They can make the plan be executed better, but it's not their plan. (I can also see how experts can hugely improve specific skill-sets - there was an extraordinary stat after last week's North London derby that since they nicked a set-piece expert from Man City in summer 2021, Arsenal have broken the deadlock 19 times from corners; in all, they've scored 24 set-piece goals since summer 2023 alone.)

I am more than half-expecting a tactical change. It might be a reversion to last season's 3-1-4-2. It might even be back four. I think he knows he has to change something, and not just sacking a patsy.

I am under the impression that we got a good run of results when Craddock came in and then it dropped off. I feel like we gave it to Craddock based upon those results at the time, not necessarily how he would be improving the squad.

Maybe the improvement was down to fresh ideas on the training ground?

Or maybe i'm under a false impression.


Either way, it did seem strange that we didn't get a candidate from outside the club at the time, given that it would be fresh ideas.

[BWFC_Insane]

Big Sam weighs in. I suspect this has become a significant issue for Evatt now. When greats of the club are openly criticising him in public over his one note style then well it’s bad news.

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/2 ... att-style/

[Bertie Wooster]

The initial improvement in the 5-6 games prior to the new year under Craddock may simply have been a hangover from Hird, which gradually wore off - and then Craddock's methods took over ? It could be like Mjallby with Lennon.

Again I've no idea how much influence in League 1 a coach has against the manager in regards to how the team plays, instructions etc. I do suspect that its mainly Evatt, therefore Craddock was the scapegoat - however as I said earlier I think it was the wrong (the easy) appointment at the time, so not really bothered about Craddock.

I assume that it will be Crainey now as coach, as they won't bring another coach in whilst Evatt's job is at risk as any new manager would probably want to bring in his own man.

[Bertie Wooster]

Big Sam weighs in. I suspect this has become a significant issue for Evatt now. When greats of the club are openly criticising him in public over his one note style then well it’s bad news.

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/2 ... att-style/

Aye he's not holding back is he, sounds like a few of us on the forums. Perhaps he's touting for the job ?

[BWFC_Insane]

Big Sam weighs in. I suspect this has become a significant issue for Evatt now. When greats of the club are openly criticising him in public over his one note style then well it’s bad news.

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/2 ... att-style/

Aye he's not holding back is he, sounds like a few of us on the forums. Perhaps he's touting for the job ?

I mean I find Allardyce pretty hard work, but I’d be absolutely doing cartwheels if he was to come back for a season. I’m pretty certain he’d take us up. And imagine the scenes?

As a manager of a club I can’t help but feel experience and pragmatism are the two things we are crying out for.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Aye he's not holding back is he, sounds like a few of us on the forums. Perhaps he's touting for the job ?

Far more likely that he's touting for attention, he has a new podcast to promote. It's a much easier life in an unanswerable bully pulpit than on a cold windy training pitch. I love Sam and I consider the times I spent interviewing him to have been a privilege, but it's a bit icky now.

The initial improvement in the 5-6 games prior to the new year under Craddock may simply have been a hangover from Hird, which gradually wore off - and then Craddock's methods took over ? It could be like Mjallby with Lennon.

Again I've no idea how much influence in League 1 a coach has against the manager in regards to how the team plays, instructions etc. I do suspect that its mainly Evatt, therefore Craddock was the scapegoat - however as I said earlier I think it was the wrong (the easy) appointment at the time, so not really bothered about Craddock.

I assume that it will be Crainey now as coach, as they won't bring another coach in whilst Evatt's job is at risk as any new manager would probably want to bring in his own man.

Mjallby, I'd forgotten about him. Rarely can anyone have left town as quickly.

"Craddock as scapegoat" certainly seems more likely than "Craddock as curiously powerful malign influence previously unchecked for some reason even during root-and-branch summer analysis".

I agree that either Crainey, Atherton or both will be putting the cones out, because (1) there's been no talk of a replacement (2) twould be a bit daft to let Evatt hire one while there's still a huge question mark over him and (3) twas always a bit odd to have two assistant managers anyway. Speaking of which, that's its own melodrama: it's entirely possible that neither of those two would want to be "demoted" to the coach role, but equally they may want to prove themselves more indispensible now that Evatt has Lady Macbeth'd Craddock out of the door. As with Sam's podcast, it's all a bit icky. Football often is. It's a selfish business, as Craddock has been shown.

[The_Gun]

Big Sam weighs in. I suspect this has become a significant issue for Evatt now. When greats of the club are openly criticising him in public over his one note style then well it’s bad news.

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/2 ... att-style/

Aye he's not holding back is he, sounds like a few of us on the forums. Perhaps he's touting for the job ?

I mean I find Allardyce pretty hard work, but I’d be absolutely doing cartwheels if he was to come back for a season. I’m pretty certain he’d take us up. And imagine the scenes?

As a manager of a club I can’t help but feel experience and pragmatism are the two things we are crying out for.

I doubt Allardyce would want the job, and I’m fairly certain he wouldn’t be offered it even if he were interested.

I’d also be of the opinion that going back to Big Sam 17 years after he left would be an absolutely atrocious move, and the complete opposite of what we should be looking to do.

[BWFC_Insane]

Big Sam weighs in. I suspect this has become a significant issue for Evatt now. When greats of the club are openly criticising him in public over his one note style then well it’s bad news.

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/2 ... att-style/

Aye he's not holding back is he, sounds like a few of us on the forums. Perhaps he's touting for the job ?

I mean I find Allardyce pretty hard work, but I’d be absolutely doing cartwheels if he was to come back for a season. I’m pretty certain he’d take us up. And imagine the scenes?

As a manager of a club I can’t help but feel experience and pragmatism are the two things we are crying out for.

I doubt Allardyce would want the job, and I’m fairly certain he wouldn’t be offered it even if he were interested.

I’d also be of the opinion that going back to Big Sam 17 years after he left would be an absolutely atrocious move, and the complete opposite of what we should be looking to do.

I wouldn’t have thought he’d have wanted it but who knows? It’s not happening but would be great imho.

As for your latter point I can see the issue. Going back and hoping for a temporary fix wouldn’t feel great. But I also worry that all these new fangled managers are a bit emperors new clothes. Where is the substance? Very few seem to really make it these days. Season or two of success rarely backed up.

Where are the contemporary Warnock’s, Pulis’, Hodgson’s, Basset’s etc…folk who did the job more often than not across a variety of circumstances? Thin on the ground.

[truewhite15]

Big Sam weighs in. I suspect this has become a significant issue for Evatt now. When greats of the club are openly criticising him in public over his one note style then well it’s bad news.

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/2 ... att-style/

Aye he's not holding back is he, sounds like a few of us on the forums. Perhaps he's touting for the job ?

I mean I find Allardyce pretty hard work, but I’d be absolutely doing cartwheels if he was to come back for a season. I’m pretty certain he’d take us up. And imagine the scenes?

As a manager of a club I can’t help but feel experience and pragmatism are the two things we are crying out for.

I doubt Allardyce would want the job, and I’m fairly certain he wouldn’t be offered it even if he were interested.

I’d also be of the opinion that going back to Big Sam 17 years after he left would be an absolutely atrocious move, and the complete opposite of what we should be looking to do.

I wouldn’t have thought he’d have wanted it but who knows? It’s not happening but would be great imho.

As for your latter point I can see the issue. Going back and hoping for a temporary fix wouldn’t feel great. But I also worry that all these new fangled managers are a bit emperors new clothes. Where is the substance? Very few seem to really make it these days. Season or two of success rarely backed up.

Where are the contemporary Warnock’s, Pulis’, Hodgson’s, Basset’s etc…folk who did the job more often than not across a variety of circumstances? Thin on the ground.

Can't help but think there's probably a reason for that. I'm hearing the word, "archaic"...

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Depending how one defines such a nebulous term, the percentage of "successful" managers is probably broadly similar to what it ever was. Like politics, it's a career that usually ends in failure: quite reasonable to define Rioch's post-Bolton career as such, and he'd been fired from his two previous jobs. Doesn't change the fact he gave us heaven. Someone else might do it again now.

We can remember the ones from years ago that "worked". There were probably dozens of two-bob Danny Bergaras that didn't, and they've thankfully slipped from the memory.

[BWFC_Insane]

Depending how one defines such a nebulous term, the percentage of "successful" managers is probably broadly similar to what it ever was. Like politics, it's a career that usually ends in failure: quite reasonable to define Rioch's post-Bolton career as such, and he'd been fired from his two previous jobs. Doesn't change the fact he gave us heaven. Someone else might do it again now.

We can remember the ones from years ago that "worked". There were probably dozens of two-bob Danny Bergaras that didn't, and they've thankfully slipped from the memory.

But I mean there were always managers floating round like Warnock, Pulis, Big Mick etc…who would mostly do a decent job…dependable and what not. Who are their equivalents today? Where are the experienced relatively successful (at least to a point) managers of today?

[officer_dibble]

Thomason captain then? Can’t have done much for santos confidence?

[Mar]

Thomason captain then? Can’t have done much for santos confidence?

Sometimes it's just worth taking Santos out of the firing line. Captaincy doesn't help him avoid pressure.

[officer_dibble]

Thomason captain then? Can’t have done much for santos confidence?

Sometimes it's just worth taking Santos out of the firing line. Captaincy doesn't help him avoid pressure.

It’s a decision that should have been made this summer. Reactive, not proactive now.