The ianevattable sacking

[officer_dibble]

Can’t believe he’s still here. What hold does he have over the Board and/or Sharon? Why can’t they act? Who is in charge?

[BWFC_Insane]

Can’t believe he’s still here. What hold does he have over the Board and/or Sharon? Why can’t they act? Who is in charge?

Doubt it’s a hold. Sharon new to football. Didn’t get on with Keith Hill. Got Evatt. Who has been her insight into the whole thing. Where else does she get anything from?

Broadly I think the club is leaderless, rudderless and without any real direction.

[HMX]

[TANGODANCER]

!Ah well, tomorrow is another day..!!

[jimbo]

Can’t believe he’s still here. What hold does he have over the Board and/or Sharon? Why can’t they act? Who is in charge?

I’m not that surprised really. She backed him earlier in the season, and since then we’ve won 7/8 or whatever, so objectively we’ve improved. If the extent of illness last week is genuine, she might see it as harsh to sack our manager on the back of it. I’d like him gone, but I can see Sharon not doing it this time.

[BWFC_Insane]

Can’t believe he’s still here. What hold does he have over the Board and/or Sharon? Why can’t they act? Who is in charge?

I’m not that surprised really. She backed him earlier in the season, and since then we’ve won 7/8 or whatever, so objectively we’ve improved. If the extent of illness last week is genuine, she might see it as harsh to sack our manager on the back of it. I’d like him gone, but I can see Sharon not doing it this time.

And whereas more weathered savvy chairpeople who’ve been around the game a bit would have known post Wembley it was over and certainly in the past couple of months have known there was no recovery - Sharon has no experience of the game - never seen a fanbase lose its patience before - and probably only receives her inside football advice from Evatt himself.

[boltonboris]

Broadly I think the club is leaderless, rudderless and without any real direction.

On what basis? We've attracted significant investment, grown revenues, have the best crowds since the Premier League era, stadium has been updated.

You can be annoyed at the decision making of the club keeping the manager, but that doesn't translate to what you've said

[BWFC_Insane]

Broadly I think the club is leaderless, rudderless and without any real direction.

On what basis? We've attracted significant investment, grown revenues, have the best crowds since the Premier League era, stadium has been updated.

You can be annoyed at the decision making of the club keeping the manager, but that doesn't translate to what you've said

Yep - we’ve also gone from ‘we will be run sustainably’ to increasing debt year on year and an admission that ‘it’s not possible to run sustainably’.

I don’t think Sharon is bad at business. Indeed she clearly can’t be.

But we are talking about running a football club and in particular the football side.

Why do I think we are leaderless and rudderless? I can only say what I think but following the Huddersfield game we more or less had the manager say (not for the first time) that he didn’t know how to fix it, was out of ideas and offering nothing in the way of leadership. At this point I expect the chairperson, board, owner or whatever to step in and offer some genuine leadership. Even if that’s to not sack the manager they need to be there to show the club is being steered. Instead what we got in public was two days later a coach (the one who wasn’t in the Evatt historic boys club) sacked and the show carrying on. I’ve been in a lot of organisations in a lot of situations and I’m afraid that screams a lack of real leadership and direction. Especially when in the summer the opposite case was made that we are too light on coaching staff after the ‘root and branch’ review. A few months later we suddenly have too many.

[boltonboris]

So basically, because she's got a different opinion than you, despite having more tangible information, more insight and more experts than you and also has a closer link with the players, coaches, etc?

I think the manager should be gone, but I also don't think the fact that he's still here makes her a rudderless and leaderless owner of a football club. If anything, the fact that against all odds and despite screams from the supporters, she kept him on shows more strength than weakness

[BWFC_Insane]

So basically, because she's got a different opinion than you, despite having more tangible information, more insight and more experts than you and also has a closer link with the players, coaches, etc?

I think the manager should be gone, but I also don't think the fact that he's still here makes her a rudderless and leaderless owner of a football club. If anything, the fact that against all odds and despite screams from the supporters, she kept him on shows more strength than weakness

I explained clearly what demonstrated a significant lack of leadership. That’s way beyond having a different opinion.

If allowing someone to be sacrificially sacked following the public face of the business coming out and basically saying they don’t know why it’s failing having subsequently said that your extensive root and branch review of a few months ago needs more coaches not fewer is ‘good leadership’ then I’m afraid you have a very different definition to mine. And all that without even a statement or explanation. Poor doesn’t come close to describing it. And I think you know it too.

Thats way beyond having a different opinion. If what happened was justified then there needed to be some leadership to come out and explain it and answer questions. That had to be whoever is running the club.

If a failing water company sacked some underling whilst protecting the directors responsible we’d all be furious. Especially if they offered no explanation and was conducted in the media. And they might have all the data and insight and a good reason to do it. But without leadership offering an explanation - the criticism would be universal. This is no different.

[Spartan2]

I'm amazed he's still here. How bad does it have to be, would 8-nil have done it? 10-nil? His tactics don't work and will never work and it's so obvious why and how he's failing tactically.

[officer_dibble]

I’m not sure? What things could Ian get away with and still be in a job? We’ve just had to pay his fine for his scrap with an opposition centre forward, so that seems ok. Maybe if he leapt into the fans braveheart style when we all launch into a rendition of “Ian Evatt your football is shite” that might do it? Or if he was found out to be part of a betting syndicate, secretly banking on 4 or 5 goal losses in certain matches? Maybe he could drive the team bus after ten pints, crash into a school bus and Sharon would still back him? Who knows! Her support knows no bounds, it’s a shame we dont all have a boss like Sharon!

[Mar]

Broadly I think the club is leaderless, rudderless and without any real direction.

On what basis? We've attracted significant investment, grown revenues, have the best crowds since the Premier League era, stadium has been updated.

You can be annoyed at the decision making of the club keeping the manager, but that doesn't translate to what you've said

I think this is why he's still in a job. Lots of signs of progress but nothing significant and loads of anecdotal evidence of repeated mistakes.

On paper we're seeing progress, league position, crowds, goals scored. In reality its same problems on the field.

We need to finish 2nd to progress on last season. There will come a point where that won't be possible, playoffs may be the key this season. Feeling sorry for ourselves will only mess up next season too

[BWFC_Insane]

Broadly I think the club is leaderless, rudderless and without any real direction.

On what basis? We've attracted significant investment, grown revenues, have the best crowds since the Premier League era, stadium has been updated.

You can be annoyed at the decision making of the club keeping the manager, but that doesn't translate to what you've said

I think this is why he's still in a job. Lots of signs of progress but nothing significant and loads of anecdotal evidence of repeated mistakes.

On paper we're seeing progress, league position, crowds, goals scored. In reality its same problems on the field.

We need to finish 2nd to progress on last season. There will come a point where that won't be possible, playoffs may be the key this season. Feeling sorry for ourselves will only mess up next season too

The whole progress year on year is a complete mirage and narrative invented by Evatt.

Yes our league one position has improved as we’ve spent millions but that covers up a multitude of factors. We came out of league two and then we had ‘the best team in the league’ according to our manager before he ripped it up a few weeks later and started again in January. Rinse and repeat the next year too.

If Evatt had inherited a young side and gradually coaxed her through with the odd signing here and there - year on year league position in league one would be a reasonable statement. But he’s ripped things up mid season several times had millions and inching Bolton Wanderers up a few places in those circumstances, especially when the league generally got weaker in terms of spending power is not a sign of real progress.

It’s a bit like talking about goals scored - another stat that in isolation doesn’t mean much.

It’s not too dissimilar to if for example a manager picks Man Utd up in 15th spends few hundred million then they finish 8th. Improved league position - but….miles off being a sign they are on the right track.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

League position only matters if you're gaining something from it. Otherwise it is just a consolation for not finishing in the 2 promotion spots. Progress is gaining the one thing that matters. Yes, you're only likely to get there taking steps, but we've been shuffling our feet as if we're approaching the front of the queue for the firing squad.

Top 2 matters. The bottom 3 matters. Everything in between matters not as we all know 3-6 means meekly submitting in the playoffs and we might as well finish 21st.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

League position only matters if you're gaining something from it. Otherwise it is just a consolation for not finishing in the 2 promotion spots. Progress is gaining the one thing that matters. Yes, you're only likely to get there taking steps, but we've been shuffling our feet as if we're approaching the front of the queue for the firing squad.

Top 2 matters. The bottom 3 matters. Everything in between matters not as we all know 3-6 means meekly submitting in the playoffs and we might as well finish 21st.

So if we finished 7th one year and 21st the next, you wouldn't think that's a lack of progress?

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

League position only matters if you're gaining something from it. Otherwise it is just a consolation for not finishing in the 2 promotion spots. Progress is gaining the one thing that matters. Yes, you're only likely to get there taking steps, but we've been shuffling our feet as if we're approaching the front of the queue for the firing squad.

Top 2 matters. The bottom 3 matters. Everything in between matters not as we all know 3-6 means meekly submitting in the playoffs and we might as well finish 21st.

So if we finished 7th one year and 21st the next, you wouldn't think that's a lack of progress?

Ultimately the difference doesn't mean much aside from maybe feeling a bit better about 7th. Assuming our aim is promotion and avoiding relegation then both those results achieve the same thing.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

League position only matters if you're gaining something from it. Otherwise it is just a consolation for not finishing in the 2 promotion spots. Progress is gaining the one thing that matters. Yes, you're only likely to get there taking steps, but we've been shuffling our feet as if we're approaching the front of the queue for the firing squad.

Top 2 matters. The bottom 3 matters. Everything in between matters not as we all know 3-6 means meekly submitting in the playoffs and we might as well finish 21st.

So if we finished 7th one year and 21st the next, you wouldn't think that's a lack of progress?

Ultimately the difference doesn't mean much aside from maybe feeling a bit better about 7th. Assuming our aim is promotion and avoiding relegation then both those results achieve the same thing.

Ultimately, aye. But as you say, you want to see progress. I don't think anyone can honestly say we were worse last season (3rd, PO final, 87pts) than the two seasons prior (5th, PO semis, 81pts // 9th, non PO, 73pts) - even if the end result each time was staying in the division. Just saying that if they happened in the opposite direction - 3rd then 5th then 9th - that would be deeply unsatisfactory, so it's a bit reductive IMO to say none of that matters.

However. For there to be progress this season we need to finish 2nd, or at the very least be promoted via the playoffs. And, again, we have to analyse whether there's been progress on that front. And frankly there hasn't - after 14 games of 46, nearly 1/3, we're 10th, and on course for fewer goals and more concessions (if slightly more points) than that first seaosn back at this level. That's the lack of progress that makes me think we're better off getting shut.

[Worthy4England]

League position only matters if you're gaining something from it. Otherwise it is just a consolation for not finishing in the 2 promotion spots. Progress is gaining the one thing that matters. Yes, you're only likely to get there taking steps, but we've been shuffling our feet as if we're approaching the front of the queue for the firing squad.

Top 2 matters. The bottom 3 matters. Everything in between matters not as we all know 3-6 means meekly submitting in the playoffs and we might as well finish 21st.

So if we finished 7th one year and 21st the next, you wouldn't think that's a lack of progress?

Ultimately the difference doesn't mean much aside from maybe feeling a bit better about 7th. Assuming our aim is promotion and avoiding relegation then both those results achieve the same thing.

Ultimately, aye. But as you say, you want to see progress. I don't think anyone can honestly say we were worse last season (3rd, PO final, 87pts) than the two seasons prior (5th, PO semis, 81pts // 9th, non PO, 73pts) - even if the end result each time was staying in the division. Just saying that if they happened in the opposite direction - 3rd then 5th then 9th - that would be deeply unsatisfactory, so it's a bit reductive IMO to say none of that matters.

However. For there to be progress this season we need to finish 2nd, or at the very least be promoted via the playoffs. And, again, we have to analyse whether there's been progress on that front. And frankly there hasn't - after 14 games of 46, nearly 1/3, we're 10th, and on course for fewer goals and more concessions (if slightly more points) than that first seaosn back at this level. That's the lack of progress that makes me think we're better off getting shut.

Think this is reasonable, mate, but I also think there's elements of the other posts reasonable too (and some not!)

I reckon it's fair to say, up until this season we improved year on year, in terms of measurable results. I don't think it's unfair to say, well we'd have expected to, with a stable core squad, holding on to some key players, rather than taking the cash and additional investment. I think both are reasonable statements. I'm pretty sure Sharon (post Wembley interview) said something akin to "we believe we are in the top 4," investment wise. That probably means we think we're 4th (last season), because if you think you're first, you don't pitch "top 4." So for me, it's a fine margins conversation - we're saying we outperformed budget by 1 win/3 points. We want to finish promoted, we'd prefer top 2 (our "only way to structure a club / way to play model" was supposed to be one element of bridging that gap), we'd probably all settle for a P/O win, had he got that, there would be a different conversation going on, based on where we were sat 1 division up. He didn't, we didn't overall perform well in the P/O's (we lost 2 of the 3 games). We've won 1? P/O game out of 5 (I think). So I'm not at the it's all shit stage, just not quite good enough to give the confidence he's learnt much.

As to Sharon, it's easy to give her the "not a football person" tag. But if I look at say Garty is she doing significantly worse? Garty didn't have to do a sacking for most of his early time as ED poured cash in. When Allardyce left, it became obvious pretty quickly, that Succession Plan Sammy wasn't the answer, Megson was never a fan favourite, then we had Coyle, Freedman and Lennon...Not sure how many of those appointments would be considered great, good, inspirational etc. I doubt few will be remembered fondly. Sharon jettisoned Hill pretty quickly (although some might say not quickly enough!) and has overall for me done a pretty good job. The Chairman isn't just about football, they're about running the whole club, she's managed to get investment in and attendances are certainly up over recent years - oh and there were shitloads of outstanding bills to pay from admin and COVID, which we've navigated. Does anyone really believe, Sharon is searching the Champ Manager database for possible replacements with no advisers (or that Garty did?) What an absolute nonsense. The Chairman of an NHS trust isn't necessarily the best brain surgeon they have.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Ultimately, aye. But as you say, you want to see progress. I don't think anyone can honestly say we were worse last season (3rd, PO final, 87pts) than the two seasons prior (5th, PO semis, 81pts // 9th, non PO, 73pts) - even if the end result each time was staying in the division. Just saying that if they happened in the opposite direction - 3rd then 5th then 9th - that would be deeply unsatisfactory, so it's a bit reductive IMO to say none of that matters.

However. For there to be progress this season we need to finish 2nd, or at the very least be promoted via the playoffs. And, again, we have to analyse whether there's been progress on that front. And frankly there hasn't - after 14 games of 46, nearly 1/3, we're 10th, and on course for fewer goals and more concessions (if slightly more points) than that first seaosn back at this level. That's the lack of progress that makes me think we're better off getting shut.

I'll admit to being a bit reductive, but you can't forever point to progress towards the same goals. I lost any belief we can achieve promotion under Evatt during the Huddersfield game. If I'm honest, probably before then, but I'd been prepared to give a modicum of benefit of belief until then. From here progress to me would be getting a manager in that can work with our squad and make me believe we might just get promoted this season. I need to believe we're approaching our potential and we're currently miles off and have been for a good 12 months (some might argue longer).