The ianevattable sacking

[irie Cee Bee]

I became a Bolton Wanderers supporter in the 97/98 season when Bibi Gardener signed when he was 19. We were in the Premiere League. Stayed there until the 2011/12 season. (12 years). Then Championship to 2015/16 season (4 years). Then one year in League 1 before promotion back to the Championship where we spent another 2 years.
Plummeted to League 2 after successive demotions. Spent 1 year in L2. We are now in our 4th year in Division 3 (L1).

Where is the progress ? Someone tell me what am I missing?

[Worthy4England]

I became a Bolton Wanderers supporter in the 97/98 season when Bibi Gardener signed when he was 19. We were in the Premiere League. Stayed there until the 2011/12 season. (12 years). Then Championship to 2015/16 season (4 years). Then one year in League 1 before promotion back to the Championship where we spent another 2 years.
Plummeted to League 2 after successive demotions. Spent 1 year in L2. We are now in our 4th year in Division 3 (L1).

Where is the progress ? Someone tell me what am I missing?

I think the bit that's missing is the bit where we had shitloads of TV and ED money. I have no major expectation that we'll approach that level any time soon, without a sugar daddy.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I became a Bolton Wanderers supporter in the 97/98 season when Bibi Gardener signed when he was 19. We were in the Premiere League. Stayed there until the 2011/12 season. (12 years). Then Championship to 2015/16 season (4 years). Then one year in League 1 before promotion back to the Championship where we spent another 2 years.
Plummeted to League 2 after successive demotions. Spent 1 year in L2. We are now in our 4th year in Division 3 (L1).

Where is the progress ? Someone tell me what am I missing?

We got relegated that first season, ICB.

I think we all have to face up to the near-certainty that those 11 seasons in the top flight were as good as it's going to get, particularly the four successive top-eight finishes 2004-07. And as Worthy notes, it was based on unsustainable finances.

Sadly for you, ICB, it's a bit like someone who started supporting Leicester in say 2013 wondering why they don't win the Premier League more often. Life's not a Hollywood narrative. More like Waiting for Godot...

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I'll admit to being a bit reductive, but you can't forever point to progress towards the same goals. I lost any belief we can achieve promotion under Evatt during the Huddersfield game. If I'm honest, probably before then, but I'd been prepared to give a modicum of benefit of belief until then. From here progress to me would be getting a manager in that can work with our squad and make me believe we might just get promoted this season. I need to believe we're approaching our potential and we're currently miles off and have been for a good 12 months (some might argue longer).

In each of the previous four seasons we have made progress on the previous campaign, which is why I just about wanted Evatt to stay over summer. That progress has now stopped - which is why, like you, I lost faith after Huddersfield - but it doesn't mean it didn't happen. If it's not going to happen again, fair enough, that's the time to change.

As to Sharon, it's easy to give her the "not a football person" tag. But if I look at say Garty is she doing significantly worse? Garty didn't have to do a sacking for most of his early time as ED poured cash in. When Allardyce left, it became obvious pretty quickly, that Succession Plan Sammy wasn't the answer, Megson was never a fan favourite, then we had Coyle, Freedman and Lennon...Not sure how many of those appointments would be considered great, good, inspirational etc. I doubt few will be remembered fondly. Sharon jettisoned Hill pretty quickly (although some might say not quickly enough!) and has overall for me done a pretty good job. The Chairman isn't just about football, they're about running the whole club, she's managed to get investment in and attendances are certainly up over recent years - oh and there were shitloads of outstanding bills to pay from admin and COVID, which we've navigated. Does anyone really believe, Sharon is searching the Champ Manager database for possible replacements with no advisers (or that Garty did?) What an absolute nonsense. The Chairman of an NHS trust isn't necessarily the best brain surgeon they have.

Reeeeeally interesting comparison to Gartside. I knew him and liked him, and he was a fierce force behind the aforementioned greatest times in the memory of most BWFC fans (say those under the age of 80), but there is a strong argument that this club was extremely fortunate to find not just a generationally brilliant manager in Allardyce but also a sugar daddy to bankroll the club into nine-figure territory. Certainly, as you point out, Garty's appointments thereafter were significantly less successful, whether we measure that by results or fan satisfaction.

Sharon made the wrong choice in Hill (although I doubt many would have saved us in that situation), then the right one in Evatt (although she might have pulled the flush quicker). Third time lucky?

[irie Cee Bee]

I became a Bolton Wanderers supporter in the 97/98 season when Bibi Gardener signed when he was 19. We were in the Premiere League. Stayed there until the 2011/12 season. (12 years). Then Championship to 2015/16 season (4 years). Then one year in League 1 before promotion back to the Championship where we spent another 2 years.
Plummeted to League 2 after successive demotions. Spent 1 year in L2. We are now in our 4th year in Division 3 (L1).

Where is the progress ? Someone tell me what am I missing?

We got relegated that first season, ICB.

I think we all have to face up to the near-certainty that those 11 seasons in the top flight were as good as it's going to get, particularly the four successive top-eight finishes 2004-07. And as Worthy notes, it was based on unsustainable finances.

Sadly for you, ICB, it's a bit like someone who started supporting Leicester in say 2013 wondering why they don't win the Premier League more often. Life's not a Hollywood narrative. More like Waiting for Godot...

DSB, is it unreasonable to expect that being in the Championship is a reasonable goal for our club to attain? I just don't like us settling for the mediocrity that seems to be creeping in. We should have goals. I would have thought that last season, promotion was a reasonable goal. We missed it, but now seem to have gone backwards. I don't think this is something that is acceptable, and the club's management should not accept this either. By their actions or non action, it appears they have.

[truewhite15]

I became a Bolton Wanderers supporter in the 97/98 season when Bibi Gardener signed when he was 19. We were in the Premiere League. Stayed there until the 2011/12 season. (12 years). Then Championship to 2015/16 season (4 years). Then one year in League 1 before promotion back to the Championship where we spent another 2 years.
Plummeted to League 2 after successive demotions. Spent 1 year in L2. We are now in our 4th year in Division 3 (L1).

Where is the progress ? Someone tell me what am I missing?

We got relegated that first season, ICB.

I think we all have to face up to the near-certainty that those 11 seasons in the top flight were as good as it's going to get, particularly the four successive top-eight finishes 2004-07. And as Worthy notes, it was based on unsustainable finances.

Sadly for you, ICB, it's a bit like someone who started supporting Leicester in say 2013 wondering why they don't win the Premier League more often. Life's not a Hollywood narrative. More like Waiting for Godot...

Yep. Without an oil baron, the bottom.half of the Premier League is likely as good as we're going to get in the near, or indeed far, future.

Targets change every year. Realistically, you can only judge progress off the previous season. Considering that certain posters on here have, in the past, been very pushy with the "Parky was great, first manager in ages to manage us to a better league position than the season before" narrative, it seems churlish (but definitely not unexpected) that we're now dismissing that Evatt achieving that four years running is a success.

However, we're all correct that the target for the last two years has been, unequivocally, promotion. 22/23 had other factors that qualified the season as a success - the FL Trophy win, though much maligned with the benefit of hindsight, was a massive positive. And I remember talking to many people at the time who were of the opinion that had we been promoted that time, it was likely too soon and we'd have been in for unrelenting spankings in the Championship.

Last season was different. Having been right up there with a chance of automatic promotion all season, it's right and just that we expected to go up via the playoffs. That we didn't is, undoubtedly, a failure. But it was the first real failure on Evatt's record.

The issue for Evatt is that he wants us to look at everything that's happened from Wembley onwards in isolation, and it just can't be. Despite the successes of previous years, there have still been worrying patterns - struggling against physical sides, not showing up in games of increased significance. And post-January, our form has been so poor - we limped towards the playoffs, having been right in the title fight beforehand.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

DSB, is it unreasonable to expect that being in the Championship is a reasonable goal for our club to attain? I just don't like us settling for the mediocrity that seems to be creeping in. We should have goals. I would have thought that last season, promotion was a reasonable goal. We missed it, but now seem to have gone backwards. I don't think this is something that is acceptable, and the club's management should not accept this either. By their actions or non action, it appears they have.

Not at all, mate - I think it's where we probably 'should' be (whatever that means), and hopefully pushing for promotion. We're therefore underachieving in this division - I've never argued against that, I've just said in some respects I'd rather be winning most games in this tier than losing most in the tier above while fearing for our financial future.

The question in summer was whether we should stick or twist. I was stick, just, because I thought we'd made enough process for the incumbent to get one more go; but now I'm twisting like Chubby feckin Checker.

[Worthy4England]

I'll admit to being a bit reductive, but you can't forever point to progress towards the same goals. I lost any belief we can achieve promotion under Evatt during the Huddersfield game. If I'm honest, probably before then, but I'd been prepared to give a modicum of benefit of belief until then. From here progress to me would be getting a manager in that can work with our squad and make me believe we might just get promoted this season. I need to believe we're approaching our potential and we're currently miles off and have been for a good 12 months (some might argue longer).

In each of the previous four seasons we have made progress on the previous campaign, which is why I just about wanted Evatt to stay over summer. That progress has now stopped - which is why, like you, I lost faith after Huddersfield - but it doesn't mean it didn't happen. If it's not going to happen again, fair enough, that's the time to change.

As to Sharon, it's easy to give her the "not a football person" tag. But if I look at say Garty is she doing significantly worse? Garty didn't have to do a sacking for most of his early time as ED poured cash in. When Allardyce left, it became obvious pretty quickly, that Succession Plan Sammy wasn't the answer, Megson was never a fan favourite, then we had Coyle, Freedman and Lennon...Not sure how many of those appointments would be considered great, good, inspirational etc. I doubt few will be remembered fondly. Sharon jettisoned Hill pretty quickly (although some might say not quickly enough!) and has overall for me done a pretty good job. The Chairman isn't just about football, they're about running the whole club, she's managed to get investment in and attendances are certainly up over recent years - oh and there were shitloads of outstanding bills to pay from admin and COVID, which we've navigated. Does anyone really believe, Sharon is searching the Champ Manager database for possible replacements with no advisers (or that Garty did?) What an absolute nonsense. The Chairman of an NHS trust isn't necessarily the best brain surgeon they have.

Reeeeeally interesting comparison to Gartside. I knew him and liked him, and he was a fierce force behind the aforementioned greatest times in the memory of most BWFC fans (say those under the age of 80), but there is a strong argument that this club was extremely fortunate to find not just a generationally brilliant manager in Allardyce but also a sugar daddy to bankroll the club into nine-figure territory. Certainly, as you point out, Garty's appointments thereafter were significantly less successful, whether we measure that by results or fan satisfaction.

Sharon made the wrong choice in Hill (although I doubt many would have saved us in that situation), then the right one in Evatt (although she might have pulled the flush quicker). Third time lucky?

It's easy to overlook the timeframe associated with Hill's appointment. I think folks expected Parky (having shouldered more shit than should hit any manager) to stay. Parky resigned around the same time as bad actors were trying to scupper the deal 21st Aug. The deal looked to be going South, completely, the weekend before it signed on 28th Aug. Hill was appointed 31st Aug, after the first match...

[BWFC_Insane]

I'll admit to being a bit reductive, but you can't forever point to progress towards the same goals. I lost any belief we can achieve promotion under Evatt during the Huddersfield game. If I'm honest, probably before then, but I'd been prepared to give a modicum of benefit of belief until then. From here progress to me would be getting a manager in that can work with our squad and make me believe we might just get promoted this season. I need to believe we're approaching our potential and we're currently miles off and have been for a good 12 months (some might argue longer).

In each of the previous four seasons we have made progress on the previous campaign, which is why I just about wanted Evatt to stay over summer. That progress has now stopped - which is why, like you, I lost faith after Huddersfield - but it doesn't mean it didn't happen. If it's not going to happen again, fair enough, that's the time to change.

As to Sharon, it's easy to give her the "not a football person" tag. But if I look at say Garty is she doing significantly worse? Garty didn't have to do a sacking for most of his early time as ED poured cash in. When Allardyce left, it became obvious pretty quickly, that Succession Plan Sammy wasn't the answer, Megson was never a fan favourite, then we had Coyle, Freedman and Lennon...Not sure how many of those appointments would be considered great, good, inspirational etc. I doubt few will be remembered fondly. Sharon jettisoned Hill pretty quickly (although some might say not quickly enough!) and has overall for me done a pretty good job. The Chairman isn't just about football, they're about running the whole club, she's managed to get investment in and attendances are certainly up over recent years - oh and there were shitloads of outstanding bills to pay from admin and COVID, which we've navigated. Does anyone really believe, Sharon is searching the Champ Manager database for possible replacements with no advisers (or that Garty did?) What an absolute nonsense. The Chairman of an NHS trust isn't necessarily the best brain surgeon they have.

Reeeeeally interesting comparison to Gartside. I knew him and liked him, and he was a fierce force behind the aforementioned greatest times in the memory of most BWFC fans (say those under the age of 80), but there is a strong argument that this club was extremely fortunate to find not just a generationally brilliant manager in Allardyce but also a sugar daddy to bankroll the club into nine-figure territory. Certainly, as you point out, Garty's appointments thereafter were significantly less successful, whether we measure that by results or fan satisfaction.

Sharon made the wrong choice in Hill (although I doubt many would have saved us in that situation), then the right one in Evatt (although she might have pulled the flush quicker). Third time lucky?

It's easy to overlook the timeframe associated with Hill's appointment. I think folks expected Parky (having shouldered more shit than should hit any manager) to stay. Parky resigned around the same time as bad actors were trying to scupper the deal 21st Aug. The deal looked to be going South, completely, the weekend before it signed on 28th Aug. Hill was appointed 31st Aug, after the first match...

Yes to the timeline. Reality was Sharon knew Parky was going to go for a bit longer than it would suggest, He’d indicated in the July that he would stay only to sort the transition out. Indeed likelihood was he would have gone earlier if deal had been done, Sharon did try and persuade him to stay but that was always a massive long shot.

Now more hearsay than anything but not sure hill was Sharon’s choice. Came down to Nolan or Hill in a hurry and from what I hear there were others who steered towards the experience of Hill.

Regardless it doesn’t much matter who made the calls I feel like we are very different now to then, Hill was sacked when it was the right call to do so but we have got into a right pickle with Evatt. You can’t and shouldn’t invest so much in a manager as an owner till they’ve done a bit more than win one promotion from league two. One might argue never regardless…looking at Allardyce as an example. As good as he was we got into a pickle there too.

[Worthy4England]

I can just imagine the furore of not investing what you can in the manager? No ambition etc.

[BWFC_Insane]

I can just imagine the furore of not investing what you can in the manager? No ambition etc.

I mean emotional investment. Gartside was intrinsically linked to Big Sam to the point where he was effectively in in his pocket. There was never any way past a certain point he could have been sacked.

[Worthy4England]

I can just imagine the furore of not investing what you can in the manager? No ambition etc.

I mean emotional investment. Gartside was intrinsically linked to Big Sam to the point where he was effectively in in his pocket. There was never any way past a certain point he could have been sacked.

TBF, Evatt has delivered 1 promotion, 1 cup and our highest divisional points tally since we hit 98 about a quarter of a century back, with a win rate of nearly 50%. I don't agree that he's not achieved anything much, my gripe is I don't think he'll get us up!

[officer_dibble]

Finished third in the bottom division behind Cheltenham and Cambridge…. Last years points total aye but still fecked the play off final against a team we’d beaten 5-0 months earlier… hes no allardyce, Rioch, todd or parkinson

[boltonboris]

With no game this weekend, it was a chance to pot him and let someone else have a chance at Tuesday nights home game.

Another opportunity missed. It seems he’s almost bullet proof. What exactly will it take?

[officer_dibble]

He’s bullet proof. We’re stuck with him.

Wigan at home, 2-1 down fans streaming out on 80 minutes as we tap it across the back, just for Gethin jones to slip up and hand a third to them on a plate. Those that are left boo…”Ian Evatt your football is shit” starts up…. Post match after he’s been carded by the ref for challenging him, we get the same spiel about us losing the game psychologically but how we’re only 8 points of 6th, our luck will turn. No sacking from Sharon who is still not sure what the score was after her 18th Prosecco.

Boxing Day, Barnsley have the whole end. There’s less than 10000 home fans. Turgid draw. Attendance given as 25000. Still no sacking.

January hits. Toughsheet becomes morgue like, fans not attending in their thousands. He gets to spend another million quid on another forward. Lolos leaves on loan to Crawley. Defender signs to use the spare squad space. Forino makes his comeback with another injury. Johnston and Forester have a white water rafting accident at a team bonding day and are out for the season. Still no sacking!

[Worthy4England]

[Mar]

Today would've been a great day for football. Shame both teams decided to avoid it.

No doubt we'll be complaining about fixture congestion in the latter half of the season. It certainly didn't help last season.

[officer_dibble]

Ha yeah, all this we will try to get the games in asap we’ve learnt our lessons. Evans and Evatt are bottle jobs. Still with any luck Huddersfield will dump us out of the nothing cup, no distractions/excuses.

[jimbo]

Is it 23pts from the last 11 games that we’ve taken? I think until that starts to dip, he’s safe. We can all look at the manner of individual performances and the same patterns repeating, but I think the board will try and be more objective. I’m not saying I agree, but I think it’ll take more than one or two defeats for them to act. Christmas period looks tricky with some tough games, so that could well be problematic for him.

[BWFC_Insane]

Evatt hiring his mate Brett Ormerod as kit man. Literally jobs for the boys. We are paying to watch Evatt take the piss.