In, Out, Shake It All About: January 2025 Transfer Window

[boltonboris]

To summarise. I think George is being hamstrung by his role and the system he's being played in, like other players too, is setting him up to fail

[Prufrock]

If we are going to pay a million quid or over then it really is ridiculous imho.

He’s played almost all his career in the lower leagues. He’s 25. He’s not unlike the litany of technically gifted midfield players we already have.

It’s just hope that he happens to rock up on form and fires us up rather than ‘yeah he’s the missing piece’. But even ignoring judgement on what we need, I find us paying million pound fees for players in their mid 20’s who have had a season or two at best of success (at the level we operate at) completely off putting when we have a history of signing players for far far less in relative terms who have done an awful lot more.

Maybe Randall will unlike the long list of other expensive fees we’ve paid tip the balance. Nowt against him. Who wouldn’t want away from that chairman?

But in 1995 we signed Gudni Bergson from premiership Spurs. We paid £60,000 ish for him. In today’s terms that would be spending circa £150,000. One of Rioch’s few cash signings. Also one of the absolute best.

For the money we are spending we shouldn’t be getting good players. They should be absolute instant game changers. Players that drive the team, show the physicality and speed of a league above and make the sort of difference you expect from players of a higher level.

We’ve spent similar amounts on a number and to my mind every single one hasn’t come close - not even a millionth of the way to where a Bergsson or a Farrelly who cost tiny amounts in comparison could take us,


I could go through them but there isn’t a single player we’ve signed in the last two seasons I’d be happy for us to have spent Rioch’s record fee of £400K on let alone over a million quid.

I'm uneasy about the sum but it's hardly ridiculous at L1 level. I'm not sure consumer inflation is an exactly fair comparison for how much Gudni "would cost now".

As an alternative measure, the world record transfer fee at the time was £13m. Post sky, globalisation of football etc, it's now £200m, 15 times higher. That would make Gudni's 60k (plus add ons to 110k) 900k rising to £1.7m, so this ballpark.

Obviously the top level of football isn't a perfect measure either when you're looking at lower league football and probably overcooks it a bit, but it'll be nearer than comparing Bergsons with oranges.

It's not like he's getting a blank chequebook. He's getting backed well though, and ran out of excuses some time ago. I'm glad there is money to spend, and I haven't seen much of Randell, but he's going to have to be good or he'll be playing for a new manager next season.

[Worthy4England]

His footballing attributes mean little if we have nobody of substance to do the dirty work. If we had the latter, we would already have the former on the books

I think it's possibly easier to carry "a talent" who doesn't do the dirty work in a four. But we think this fella is 10-ish, so we could end up with Sheehan as 6 and this guy further forwards in a 3. Thommo going to need new legs.

[GhostoftheBok]

As a cross-over post from the Exeter thread, one thing our money is buying us is fitness.

The lads we are spending more money on tend to have the best availability in the squad.

Dion, McAtee, Schon, Vic, Collins...they are usually there to be picked.

If we do get a new manager in the summer he may at least be able to improve the availability of the squad and help us kick on.

Randall hasn't had significant injury issues for a long time. Hopefully he'll be another that will be able to play at 100% for more than half a season.

If we can get a defender that can also be relied on to be available then that would be huge.

[BWFC_Insane]

If we are going to pay a million quid or over then it really is ridiculous imho.

He’s played almost all his career in the lower leagues. He’s 25. He’s not unlike the litany of technically gifted midfield players we already have.

It’s just hope that he happens to rock up on form and fires us up rather than ‘yeah he’s the missing piece’. But even ignoring judgement on what we need, I find us paying million pound fees for players in their mid 20’s who have had a season or two at best of success (at the level we operate at) completely off putting when we have a history of signing players for far far less in relative terms who have done an awful lot more.

Maybe Randall will unlike the long list of other expensive fees we’ve paid tip the balance. Nowt against him. Who wouldn’t want away from that chairman?

But in 1995 we signed Gudni Bergson from premiership Spurs. We paid £60,000 ish for him. In today’s terms that would be spending circa £150,000. One of Rioch’s few cash signings. Also one of the absolute best.

For the money we are spending we shouldn’t be getting good players. They should be absolute instant game changers. Players that drive the team, show the physicality and speed of a league above and make the sort of difference you expect from players of a higher level.

We’ve spent similar amounts on a number and to my mind every single one hasn’t come close - not even a millionth of the way to where a Bergsson or a Farrelly who cost tiny amounts in comparison could take us,


I could go through them but there isn’t a single player we’ve signed in the last two seasons I’d be happy for us to have spent Rioch’s record fee of £400K on let alone over a million quid.

I'm uneasy about the sum but it's hardly ridiculous at L1 level. I'm not sure consumer inflation is an exactly fair comparison for how much Gudni "would cost now".

As an alternative measure, the world record transfer fee at the time was £13m. Post sky, globalisation of football etc, it's now £200m, 15 times higher. That would make Gudni's 60k (plus add ons to 110k) 900k rising to £1.7m, so this ballpark.

Obviously the top level of football isn't a perfect measure either when you're looking at lower league football and probably overcooks it a bit, but it'll be nearer than comparing Bergsons with oranges.

It's not like he's getting a blank chequebook. He's getting backed well though, and ran out of excuses some time ago. I'm glad there is money to spend, and I haven't seen much of Randell, but he's going to have to be good or he'll be playing for a new manager next season.

I accept all your points. It just feels like we are signing lower league players for very high money. I always feel the value in transfers is either the very very high end or the very very cheap end. We are middling spending and I never think there is value there.

I think we spent best part of two decades spending not much relatively yet unearthing some of the best players we’ve ever watched. Gudni, Eidur, Per, Stelios, Ricketts etc….all cheap signings relatively and yet some of the best we’ve watched. I’m just very unconvinced that assembling a team of lower league players from other clubs who failed to go up for millions is a good plan. Certainly doesn’t feel that exciting to me. At best we end up with a 27 year old with moderate interest from one or two bigger clubs.

[GhostoftheBok]

I think it's reasonable to say "We're not getting enough bang for our buck on the big signings right now." We're not.

It's entirely reasonable for any player, regardless of price tag, to need time to settle in. Especially when a team is generally all over the shop.

So there's conflict there. We'd expect the players we bought to be doing more, but I don't think it's unacceptable from the players for them to be working their way in. Again, it's more blame for Evatt - as he's not provided a stable environment for the incoming lads. McAtee and Schon haven't actually been bad, just not as god as their price tags require. We'll see how they go.

Most of our squad to get us to within a whisker of promotion was bargains, so again I don't think it's fair to say we don't bargain hunt. Of course we do. It's basically all we've done for years. We've gone from on our arses to the play-off final almost exclusively on bargain bin players.

In the case of Randall we're actually ahead of the curve if we've got him for the price doing the rounds. It's hardly more than Posh paid for him a few years ago and he's a much better player now. So Posh paid over £1m for a young, raw prospect from League Two and we're paying almost the same amount for one of the best creative players in League One. Posh have put in years of work and got nothing out of him, but he has improved a lot. By that measure we've won.

[GhostoftheBok]

Who are the lads we've spent money on before last summer - beyond minimal fees to get players out of contracts?

Morley - Undoubtedly a good deal
Toal - Again, excellent deal
Charles - Excellent
Vic - Not lived up to his fee yet
Forrester - I think he's showing he was worth the fee
Collins - I'd say definitely worth it, given his goals return
Dempsey - Injuries have been an issue, but clearly a good player for what we paid
Mendes Gomez - Wracked by injuries. Thus far a waste of money, unfortunately.

I think that's a good record, generally. One real failure - with injuries being the primary issue. One who hasn't done enough yet. Some brilliant deals. Some solid ones.

Who have I missed? Sadlier, probably counts...that was a mistake. Anyone else? Have we had to write-off a significant investment yet?

[nicholaldo]

Personally I think that Randall would be a good signing, as we need someone creative in midfield - however IMO you couldn't play Randall & Sheehan in the same side.

A good point, and I do wonder if Sheehan might be one to make way this month.

[nicholaldo]

Who are the lads we've spent money on before Who have I missed? Sadlier, probably counts...that was a mistake. Anyone else? Have we had to write-off a significant investment yet?

Dan Nlundulu

[GhostoftheBok]

Dan Nlundulu

Thanks.

Yes, clearly not worked out. Can again maybe blame injuries, but that's out own fault. Every man and his dog knew he needed his hamstrings looking after and we didn't bother.

Still annoyed about it.

[Prufrock]

Personally I think that Randall would be a good signing, as we need someone creative in midfield - however IMO you couldn't play Randall & Sheehan in the same side.

A good point, and I do wonder if Sheehan might be one to make way this month.

Just signed a new contract hasn't he? A 10 who can take the ball in tight spaces would be excellent with Josh on the ball.

But there other mon in there would need some legs!

[GhostoftheBok]

Just signed a new contract hasn't he? A 10 who can take the ball in tight spaces would be excellent with Josh on the ball.

But there other mon in there would need some legs!

...and the back three needs sorting. The spare man has to be able to step out and play ball-winner.

Jamie Carragher gave a decent explanation of it in the Man Utd system vs Liverpool.

The 3/5 at the back has to be able to become a 4, with the free man "jumping" into midfield to win the ball, when it's demanded. Otherwise it doesn't work.

One of our biggest issues this season has been Johnston failing to react to triggers fast enough as he comes back from his injury. Same with Jones on the other side.

[Prufrock]

Aye, but they've also got Ugarte in front of them. Agree it's both.

[GhostoftheBok]

Aye, but they've also got Ugarte in front of them. Agree it's both.

Yep. The in-possession stuff should be a very easy fix for us with the players coming in and coming back to fitness. The other side of the game - seconds balls, etc - has always been the challenge.

Schon on the left is an absolute terrier - though sometimes too wild. Williams has been flying up and down the wing to cover his mates.

It's the central transitions and second balls we have to cut out. You can't be as soft through the middle as we have been and get anywhere.

[GhostoftheBok]

Some account on Twitter just linked our old friend Jack Iredale with a move to Rotherham.

Would be an odd one. Hibs fans are head over heels for him at the minute and he only just went there.

Slow start, but has recently been cited as their best defender by a distance and possible captain next season.

[officer_dibble]

I always thought Iredale was harshly done to here - ok he’s no Ricardo santos but he’s a left sided defender who was decent in the air, decent distribution and wasn’t a fanny as well. Having said that I think he was injured a bit wasn’t he…

[Bertie Wooster]

I always thought Iredale was harshly done to here - ok he’s no Ricardo santos but he’s a left sided defender who was decent in the air, decent distribution and wasn’t a fanny as well. Having said that I think he was injured a bit wasn’t he…

Like many of Evatt's signings.

[Worthy4England]

It's the central transitions and second balls we have to cut out. You can't be as soft through the middle as we have been and get anywhere.

I think with ball, heading towards their goal, we can generally show enough control to hit the final third. Not gonna lie, sometimes goes in a circuitous route, but usually gets somewhere near. Better on a sunny day and light pressing than a team that sets about us.

The soft through the middle bit with Randall/Sheehan quite frankly terrifies me, and that's acknowledging Josh has worked at his defensive side.

Randall might open them up, but he could open us up too. And we are already an open door on occasion with Demps (although he usually gives the defensive side a good shot).

It sounds like more overly complex defensively as it is attacking. And that's with a defence that's leaky as shit from fairly simple things like set piece. Probably the most basic of defensive drills.

[GhostoftheBok]

Sounds like this is happening, so we'll see. Iles is basically saying what was understood by the general footy world - Posh want their money back. It's interesting he says the *up front* money is less now than in the summer, with the rest being made up from bonuses.

I thought until yesterday the bonuses being talked about (sell-on and promotion, etc) were to give Posh a small profit. Sounds now like it'll just be the sell-on that offers that, with the other bonuses being break-even. That may be what Darragh meant by having to firm up details and if it's already concluded may mean we got more of what we wanted than Posh did what they wanted.

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/2 ... playmaker/

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Iles also says Nlundulu stays on loan at Cambridge unless we accept a cash offer.