Who's the Rioch to Evatt's Neal?

[Prufrock]

He does look the obvious candidate.

[BWFC_Insane]

On Schumacher who I’m warming to by the hour as I’ve listened to his interviews etc…what happened at stoke? Would that be a failure or just ‘he did as well as anyone would do there?’

EVERYBODY fails at Stoke, it's just a matter of when and in which order. As I see HMX has explained, they are in a half-decade Groundhog Day of lower-mid-table finishes - never really threatened by relegation and thus never even having that joyous release.

As for Schumacher, I'll copy-paste what I posted yesterday about him in the division above:

Plymouth were 16th when he left in December; he improved Stoke from 19th to 17th that season and they were 13th when they sacked him to hire someone they also sacked after three months with them 19th again.

Thanks so for me although he’s relatively new to management you can’t say he’s failed anywhere really. Took Plymouth up. Had them above the relegation spots in the championship. Kept Stoke in the championship and left them in mid table after which they ended up worse.

It’s a record with positives in and nothing horrendously scary. Now that might be by virtue of being a relatively small record but it’s also a relevant record for where we are.

It’s harder to know for example how GON’s premiership record translates to a league one side which pressure to go up.

Schumacher who I instinctively didn’t feel excited by has worked down here and with similar sorts of players to what we possess.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Thanks so for me although he’s relatively new to management you can’t say he’s failed anywhere really. Took Plymouth up. Had them above the relegation spots in the championship. Kept Stoke in the championship and left them in mid table after which they ended up worse.

It’s a record with positives in and nothing horrendously scary. Now that might be by virtue of being a relatively small record but it’s also a relevant record for where we are.

It’s harder to know for example how GON’s premiership record translates to a league one side which pressure to go up.

Schumacher who I instinctively didn’t feel excited by has worked down here and with similar sorts of players to what we possess.

I posted on here at the time that I half-expected (or perhaps hoped) Schumacher to fail at Plymouth when Lowe went and he stayed. Hands held up, he did better than his old boss*.

I'll also repaste this potted list of Schuey's claims.
• Has experience of promotion from this division (and how - with 101pts on a lower budget)
• Didn't shit the bed in the Champo
• Can play with a back three or a back four (Plymouth did both)
• Can work with a DoF type (Plymouth had Neil Dewsnip, Stoke had Jonny Wallets)
• Has a great record with loanees (they fired Plymouth to promotion and some stuck around for longer)
• Is available (and local, by birth)

As Pru says, it makes a lot of sense - unless the club specifically want to go "unheralded Head Coach type" route, which might be a bit of a risk when the mood is bad...

*although Lowe also has promotions on his CV (albeit from a lower level) and a reasonable tier-2 record, and therefore has his own claims, which can be examined separately if he throws his hat in the ring.

[Prufrock]

Preston fans hated Lowe for similar reasons it went toxic here. Sideways and backwards, initially with an excellent defensive record that fell apart.

Also more wedded to a five. Though my worry with Schumacher is he's played that before and might think it suits the players.

Lowe would not be my choice, though he's not the worst option on the list!

[BWFC_Insane]

The other advantage with Schumacher for me is just first half season with Plymouth they looked set for the play offs only to blow up at the end and not win in 5 and ultimately blow it on the final day 5-0 defeat at home to MK Dons. So he’s had hard times and a failure. Next season he took them up with 101 points. I think that’s encouraging. Managers who have seen difficult things and come back from them for me it’s important. You need that experience.

Also obviously got thumped by us at Wembley in the pizza cup but won 7 out of 8 after to win promotion.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Preston fans hated Lowe for similar reasons it went toxic here. Sideways and backwards, initially with an excellent defensive record that fell apart.

Also more wedded to a five. Though my worry with Schumacher is he's played that before and might think it suits the players.

Lowe would not be my choice, though he's not the worst option on the list!

Yeah, maybe 2 years ago I was figuring Lowe could replace Evatt if IE was taken by a club higher up. How things change...

[jmjhb]

I suspect we will want to avoid paying compensation if possible.

Unlikely anything will happen before Northampton game at earliest.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I suspect we will want to avoid paying compensation if possible.

Unlikely anything will happen before Northampton game at earliest.

Cheers for the update. I guess we need to interview some candidates if we're not just rushing it...

Of the poll list (other options are available) the non-compo 'candidates' are Steven Schumacher, Leam Richardson, Rob Edwards, Ryan Lowe, Sam Allardyce, Des Buckingham, Neil Harris, Gary O'Neil, Mark Warburton and Dean Holden. Compo at some or other level would be required for Dave Challinor, Leighton Baines, Damien Duff, Nigel Clough, Richie Wellens and presumably "A promising unknown".

[BWFC_Insane]

I suspect we will want to avoid paying compensation if possible.

Unlikely anything will happen before Northampton game at earliest.

Thanks. I wouldn’t have expected anything before Northampton. Just the logistics of talking to agents, setting up meetings with prospective managers, assessing options takes longer than a few days. And it’s clear we didn’t have an instant ‘plan’ so one can assume that middle of next week is absolutely earliest but I’d also assume they won’t want to drag it on much beyond that given transfer window considerations.

[DJBlu]

Russell Martin will want a Championship job (perfectly reasonably), and the board would hopefully realise that his style of football is *too* similar to the bits of Evatt's that infuriated people. I don't mind the idealised style of football but we don't want an even more fanatical ideologue.

More realistically, Iles' BN piece this morning says Schumacher is "understood to be interested in speaking to Bolton" so that's good. Obviously such a conversation may flounder if he wants a £5m wage and £10m to spend but it suggests he's open to the idea.

I’m more worried about our decision making. On Schumacher who I’m warming to by the hour as I’ve listened to his interviews etc…what happened at stoke? Would that be a failure or just ‘he did as well as anyone would do there?’

Got to look at the expectation vs time given, if we're a longer term project as in get out of League One and consolidate in the Championship then work towards getting towards the higher end of the league. He might see us as a reputation repair too.

Got to imagine the pressure from Stoke's board to ours will be slightly different. Whether he can cope with the demands we would have to wait and see but it would be nicer to be in the Championship making that decision than this league. He's proven he knows how to get out of this league and with a bit more time and his experience at Stoke maybe it's a better gamble than an unknown.

[The_Gun]

It’s worth remembering that managers who have been in work very recently are likely still being paid by their former employers. It’s probable that they will have clauses in place which mean that if they take another job the payments from previous clubs would end.

[jmjhb]

It’s worth remembering that managers who have been in work very recently are likely still being paid by their former employers. It’s probable that they will have clauses in place which mean that if they take another job the payments from previous clubs would end.

The same reason why in Italy a lot of managers get re-employed by the same club after about 3 months

[BWFC_Insane]

Russell Martin will want a Championship job (perfectly reasonably), and the board would hopefully realise that his style of football is *too* similar to the bits of Evatt's that infuriated people. I don't mind the idealised style of football but we don't want an even more fanatical ideologue.

More realistically, Iles' BN piece this morning says Schumacher is "understood to be interested in speaking to Bolton" so that's good. Obviously such a conversation may flounder if he wants a £5m wage and £10m to spend but it suggests he's open to the idea.

I’m more worried about our decision making. On Schumacher who I’m warming to by the hour as I’ve listened to his interviews etc…what happened at stoke? Would that be a failure or just ‘he did as well as anyone would do there?’

Got to look at the expectation vs time given, if we're a longer term project as in get out of League One and consolidate in the Championship then work towards getting towards the higher end of the league. He might see us as a reputation repair too.

Got to imagine the pressure from Stoke's board to ours will be slightly different. Whether he can cope with the demands we would have to wait and see but it would be nicer to be in the Championship making that decision than this league. He's proven he knows how to get out of this league and with a bit more time and his experience at Stoke maybe it's a better gamble than an unknown.

Yeah he’s managed big sides with expectation so I feel that he’s well prepared and has the best CV of most obvious candidates though the caveat is it’s limited in scope.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

It’s worth remembering that managers who have been in work very recently are likely still being paid by their former employers. It’s probable that they will have clauses in place which mean that if they take another job the payments from previous clubs would end.

Depends on the terms of the exit deal - that's more like gardening leave than compo - and the manager's desire to get back into work.

Schumacher's Stoke contract was until 2027, but if he waits that long everybody will have forgotten his Plymouth success of four years previously. (The manager who won League One in 2021? Grant McCann.)

[The_Gun]

It’s worth remembering that managers who have been in work very recently are likely still being paid by their former employers. It’s probable that they will have clauses in place which mean that if they take another job the payments from previous clubs would end.

Depends on the terms of the exit deal - that's more like gardening leave than compo - and the manager's desire to get back into work.

Schumacher's Stoke contract was until 2027, but if he waits that long everybody will have forgotten his Plymouth success of four years previously. (The manager who won League One in 2021? Grant McCann.)

My assumption is that when managers are fired their contracts are at least partially paid up, but that would almost certainly not be done as a lump sum. It probably wouldn’t be spread over the entire contract duration, but I doubt many clubs are paying those sums in one go.

This of course is going to vary from situation to situation, but, making another assumption, I’m going to say clubs are likely to agree clauses with outgoing managers to say the payments will stop if they take another job.

Lots of guesswork there from me, so perhaps I’m wide of the mark.

[Bijou Bob]

I'm hoping for/ expecting an announcement for Monday next week. We're in direct competition for several candidates who also appear on Wycombe's possible list. Local journos there seem to think Leam Richardson is current favourites, which is fine by me. Given the number of candidates out of work, I'd be amazed if their agents weren't crawling over broken glass to get an interview sorted this week.

Would/ could we try to steal Challinor, which would take much longer and take funds out of our transfer budget? Is Dean Holden still in the middle east or back home?

Exciting times. Hopeful times.

[sonicthewhite]

I'm hoping for/ expecting an announcement for Monday next week. We're in direct competition for several candidates who also appear on Wycombe's possible list. Local journos there seem to think Leam Richardson is current favourites, which is fine by me. Given the number of candidates out of work, I'd be amazed if their agents weren't crawling over broken glass to get an interview sorted this week.

Would/ could we try to steal Challinor, which would take much longer and take funds out of our transfer budget? Is Dean Holden still in the middle east or back home?

Exciting times. Hopeful times.

Holden is home and has already said he'd take the job without an interview.

[Frank Drebin]

Russell Martin will want a Championship job (perfectly reasonably), and the board would hopefully realise that his style of football is *too* similar to the bits of Evatt's that infuriated people. I don't mind the idealised style of football but we don't want an even more fanatical ideologue.

More realistically, Iles' BN piece this morning says Schumacher is "understood to be interested in speaking to Bolton" so that's good. Obviously such a conversation may flounder if he wants a £5m wage and £10m to spend but it suggests he's open to the idea.

I’m more worried about our decision making. On Schumacher who I’m warming to by the hour as I’ve listened to his interviews etc…what happened at stoke? Would that be a failure or just ‘he did as well as anyone would do there?’

“What happened at Stoke?”
Last September, I was talking to a Stoke supporter at the airport, as you do. I asked about Schumacher and he said, after one game Jon Walters came into the dressing room and started kicking off with Schumacher and they came to blows.
Walters is a director or holds a senior position at the club, so Schumacher had to go.
I don’t know if that fan is ‘in the know’ but it would be one explanation why his contract came to an end prematurely.

[nicholaldo]

What kind of football do Schumacher teams play?

[BWFC_Insane]

Challinor would be an excellent choice - maybe the best choice but I just can’t see Sharon wanting to go there - too much time and too high a cost and he’s still a risky appointment. Like any it may or may not work.