Who's the Rioch to Evatt's Neal?

[BWFC_Insane]

Seems plausible that we've been unable to agree terms with Schumacher and might be looking elsewhere. No reason we should pay any new appointee more than Evatt was on.

Starting to seem that way. Iles has said it could be down to haggling over terms or even contractural issues from previous clubs. I guess it’s possible stoke were/are still paying him and that’s causing a delay especially if we want to pay him less.

What I’d say is that Evatt came from non league so I do think it reasonable we pay someone more if they have more relevant experience.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

What I’d say is that Evatt came from non league so I do think it reasonable we pay someone more if they have more relevant experience.

Evatt signed a contract extension in early May 2023, which may have been more or less his high-water mark (it was just before the play-off semis we lost).

Think lots of people are leaping to lots of conclusions. Possible I'm among them but i too listened to Iles' podcast and didn't think "Well that's Schumacher gone then" - quite the opposite.

[BWFC_Insane]

What I’d say is that Evatt came from non league so I do think it reasonable we pay someone more if they have more relevant experience.

Evatt signed a contract extension in early May 2023, which may have been more or less his high-water mark (it was just before the play-off semis we lost).

Think lots of people are leaping to lots of conclusions. Possible I'm among them but i too listened to Iles' podcast and didn't think "Well that's Schumacher gone then" - quite the opposite.

You listened to the one he did post match?

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

What I’d say is that Evatt came from non league so I do think it reasonable we pay someone more if they have more relevant experience.

Evatt signed a contract extension in early May 2023, which may have been more or less his high-water mark (it was just before the play-off semis we lost).

Think lots of people are leaping to lots of conclusions. Possible I'm among them but i too listened to Iles' podcast and didn't think "Well that's Schumacher gone then" - quite the opposite.

You listened to the one he did post match?

Yep, this very morning, on the A316

[Mar]

Getting closer to the end of the transfer window.

Any new manager coming in will have less and less time to make acquisitions if we're going down that route. Maybe we'll end up working with what we've got, but I can't help but think that there's likely to be some players going.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Getting closer to the end of the transfer window.

Any new manager coming in will have less and less time to make acquisitions if we're going down that route. Maybe we'll end up working with what we've got, but I can't help but think that there's likely to be some players going.

Randell Williams hasn't played a minute since Rotherham; he was an unused sub in the midweek cup game at Lincoln immediately afterwards, but not even in the 18 since.

CMG hasn't played a minute since Mansfield on New Year's Day. Unused sub at Exeter and Lincoln but, like Williams, not in the 18 since.

Arfield hasn't played a minute since Boxing Day (arguably his best showing in a Bolton shirt) - was unusued sub for the three games after but then out of the 18 for Evat''s final four games. Unused sub in both Darby's games.

It's possible that the new man may try to get one or more of these off the books to bring in fresh blood. But then, it's also possible everyone gets a clean slate.

[Mar]

Getting closer to the end of the transfer window.

Any new manager coming in will have less and less time to make acquisitions if we're going down that route. Maybe we'll end up working with what we've got, but I can't help but think that there's likely to be some players going.

Randell Williams hasn't played a minute since Rotherham; he was an unused sub in the midweek cup game at Lincoln immediately afterwards, but not even in the 18 since.

CMG hasn't played a minute since Mansfield on New Year's Day. Unused sub at Exeter and Lincoln but, like Williams, not in the 18 since.

Arfield hasn't played a minute since Boxing Day (arguably his best showing in a Bolton shirt) - was unusued sub for the three games after but then out of the 18 for Evat''s final four games. Unused sub in both Darby's games.

It's possible that the new man may try to get one or more of these off the books to bring in fresh blood. But then, it's also possible everyone gets a clean slate.

I suspect for a few of them it would be madness not to get something arranged ahead of time. Especially for the likes of Randell Williams, talented player bit injury prone, needs to really get a long term deal somewhere. CMG's still got a good year and a half left on his deal so no urgency there other than perhaps Bolton trying to break even.

Arfield, possibly sunset contract wanted if he's carrying on after us, can't imagine he'll get a new deal here.

[BWFC_Insane]

I know many will disagree with me but if the talk that stoke are paying Schumacher still and we don’t want to pick up his whole wage is true…it feels quite amateurish. You don’t get this far without that due diligence.

If we resolve it and get Schumacher in the end then apart from I think losing significant transfer ground it’s still ok.

But if they can’t and we have to settle for what would quite obviously be second choice at best - then I don’t see a name that would go down well with the fans short of giving it to Jules till the end of the season.

Nobody wants Buckingham. O Neil presumably is very out if Schuey is too much money and Wagner is very off putting from the stuff he served up at Norwich which was reminiscent of Evatt football on sleeping pills.

[Worthy4England]

Feels more like negotiation than DD. I doubt anyone thought he wasn't getting anything from Stoke, still...

[Bertie Wooster]

I know many will disagree with me but if the talk that stoke are paying Schumacher still and we don’t want to pick up his whole wage is true…it feels quite amateurish. You don’t get this far without that due diligence.

If we resolve it and get Schumacher in the end then apart from I think losing significant transfer ground it’s still ok.

But if they can’t and we have to settle for what would quite obviously be second choice at best - then I don’t see a name that would go down well with the fans short of giving it to Jules till the end of the season.

Nobody wants Buckingham. O Neil presumably is very out if Schuey is too much money and Wagner is very off putting from the stuff he served up at Norwich which was reminiscent of Evatt football on sleeping pills.

Wagner's Huddersfield side played fantastic football.

[BWFC_Insane]

Feels more like negotiation than DD. I doubt anyone thought he wasn't getting anything from Stoke, still...

Yeah I guess you are right. I suspect it was and is an issue given all the out of work lot are from at least the level above. So presumably paid more than we want to.

[BWFC_Insane]

I know many will disagree with me but if the talk that stoke are paying Schumacher still and we don’t want to pick up his whole wage is true…it feels quite amateurish. You don’t get this far without that due diligence.

If we resolve it and get Schumacher in the end then apart from I think losing significant transfer ground it’s still ok.

But if they can’t and we have to settle for what would quite obviously be second choice at best - then I don’t see a name that would go down well with the fans short of giving it to Jules till the end of the season.

Nobody wants Buckingham. O Neil presumably is very out if Schuey is too much money and Wagner is very off putting from the stuff he served up at Norwich which was reminiscent of Evatt football on sleeping pills.

Wagner's Huddersfield side played fantastic football.

You think? They went up but had the lowest goals scored in the top 6 (and beyond) and a negative goal difference. I know at their best they were a bit Klopp Liverpool esque but in their promotion season I saw a few of their games and I’d not describe them as ‘fantastic to watch’.

Better than Evatts side absolutely - but Norwich it really was dire there.

I’m not that convinced. Like him as a character but feel very very quickly we’d be back in Evatt sort of territory.

[Bertie Wooster]

I know many will disagree with me but if the talk that stoke are paying Schumacher still and we don’t want to pick up his whole wage is true…it feels quite amateurish. You don’t get this far without that due diligence.

If we resolve it and get Schumacher in the end then apart from I think losing significant transfer ground it’s still ok.

But if they can’t and we have to settle for what would quite obviously be second choice at best - then I don’t see a name that would go down well with the fans short of giving it to Jules till the end of the season.

Nobody wants Buckingham. O Neil presumably is very out if Schuey is too much money and Wagner is very off putting from the stuff he served up at Norwich which was reminiscent of Evatt football on sleeping pills.

Wagner's Huddersfield side played fantastic football.

You think? They went up but had the lowest goals scored in the top 6 (and beyond) and a negative goal difference. I know at their best they were a bit Klopp Liverpool esque but in their promotion season I saw a few of their games and I’d not describe them as ‘fantastic to watch’.

Better than Evatts side absolutely - but Norwich it really was dire there.

I’m not that convinced. Like him as a character but feel very very quickly we’d be back in Evatt sort of territory.

I just remember them at the Reebok under Wagner in the championship and they absolutely ripped us apart - played good football, fast, physical, pacy. I'd still prefer Schumacher but I wouldn't be gutted if it was Wagner.

[BWFC_Insane]

I know many will disagree with me but if the talk that stoke are paying Schumacher still and we don’t want to pick up his whole wage is true…it feels quite amateurish. You don’t get this far without that due diligence.

If we resolve it and get Schumacher in the end then apart from I think losing significant transfer ground it’s still ok.

But if they can’t and we have to settle for what would quite obviously be second choice at best - then I don’t see a name that would go down well with the fans short of giving it to Jules till the end of the season.

Nobody wants Buckingham. O Neil presumably is very out if Schuey is too much money and Wagner is very off putting from the stuff he served up at Norwich which was reminiscent of Evatt football on sleeping pills.

Wagner's Huddersfield side played fantastic football.

You think? They went up but had the lowest goals scored in the top 6 (and beyond) and a negative goal difference. I know at their best they were a bit Klopp Liverpool esque but in their promotion season I saw a few of their games and I’d not describe them as ‘fantastic to watch’.

Better than Evatts side absolutely - but Norwich it really was dire there.

I’m not that convinced. Like him as a character but feel very very quickly we’d be back in Evatt sort of territory.

I just remember them at the Reebok under Wagner in the championship and they absolutely ripped us apart - played good football, fast, physical, pacy. I'd still prefer Schumacher but I wouldn't be gutted if it was Wagner.

Fair few Norwich threads about him. For example….

https://forum.pinkun.com/index.php?/top ... /#comments

If that doesn’t break you out in Evatt smelling cold sweats I don’t know what will.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Wagner's Huddersfield: having registered a negative goal difference during the regular season, they went up through the playoffs without scoring a goal themselves - drew the semi home leg 0-0, drew the away leg 1-1 (own goal), won on penalties partly thanks to Sheffield Wednesday's Jordan Rhodes refusing to take a spotkick, then won again on penalties at Wembley. I mean, it all counts, but it's not exactly glowing.

Wagner did very well to keep them up, albeit on 37pts. That's the season West Brom went through four managers - Pulis, Megson, Pardew and Moore, it's like the four horsemen of the apocalypse - while Stoke were also awful under Hughes/Lambert and Swansea finally succumbed to gravity under Paul Clement and Carlos Carvalhal.

After that, it's been awful. Went to Schalke, they didn't win from Jan to Jun. Sacked. Went to Young Boys, who'd won three successive league titles - he didn't and got sacked again. Went to Norwich in January 2023; they won 1 of their last 11 and finished 13th; they kept him on, and fair enough the following season they reached the playoffs (albeit 23pts behind their 2nd-placed local rivals Ipswich) – but guess what happened there? 0-0 at home, bummed 4-0 at Leeds, sacked.

[BWFC_Insane]

Wagner's Huddersfield: having registered a negative goal difference during the regular season, they went up through the playoffs without scoring a goal themselves - drew the semi home leg 0-0, drew the away leg 1-1 (own goal), won on penalties partly thanks to Sheffield Wednesday's Jordan Rhodes refusing to take a spotkick, then won again on penalties at Wembley. I mean, it all counts, but it's not exactly glowing.

Wagner did very well to keep them up, albeit on 37pts. That's the season West Brom went through four managers - Pulis, Megson, Pardew and Moore, it's like the four horsemen of the apocalypse - while Stoke were also awful under Hughes/Lambert and Swansea finally succumbed to gravity under Paul Clement and Carlos Carvalhal.

After that, it's been awful. Went to Schalke, they didn't win from Jan to Jun. Sacked. Went to Young Boys, who'd won three successive league titles - he didn't and got sacked again. Went to Norwich in January 2023; they won 1 of their last 11 and finished 13th; they kept him on, and fair enough the following season they reached the playoffs (albeit 23pts behind their 2nd-placed local rivals Ipswich) – but guess what happened there? 0-0 at home, bummed 4-0 at Leeds, sacked.

Yeah this. But maybe, and I mean this seriously, maybe he’s modern day Rioch for us?

Bruce had a pretty mixed bag before coming here. But he changed the whole culture of the place. Wagner strikes me as maybe a modern day equivalent character wise?

However like you I don’t see in his record a lot beyond what you might characterise as a fortunate promotion at Huddersfield followed by a riding the crest of the wave survival. And that doesn’t seem enough. Schumacher with a relatively modest budget won the league we are in now, that wasn’t realiant on penalty shoot outs, he won it. That encourages me more than Wagner I’m afraid.

[Bertie Wooster]

Its probably someone messing about on the betting market, even if there was some interest in Wagner I would would have thought that his salary would be out of our league.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Yeah this. But maybe, and I mean this seriously, maybe he’s modern day Rioch for us?

Bruce had a pretty mixed bag before coming here. But he changed the whole culture of the place. Wagner strikes me as maybe a modern day equivalent character wise?

However like you I don’t see in his record a lot beyond what you might characterise as a fortunate promotion at Huddersfield followed by a riding the crest of the wave survival. And that doesn’t seem enough. Schumacher with a relatively modest budget won the league we are in now, that wasn’t realiant on penalty shoot outs, he won it. That encourages me more than Wagner I’m afraid.

As I've said before, Riochs are incredibly rare. Can't think of any bar Chris Wilder and Kieran McKenna in the 30 years since Bruce. Although of course Bruce did it twice, having done it with Boro before us - which rather outweighed his "only" getting Millwall to the tier-2 playoffs.

[Harry Genshaw]

That was my main recollection of Wagner ^^, churning out dull football at a dull football club, that was briefly successful. I'd sooner take a punt on Buckingham.

[GhostoftheBok]

Lots of managers being linked who are better than the usual calibre at this level.

Hopefully they get the right one. The idea that there's only one possible man for the job and anyone else is a disaster is a bit silly, to be honest.

The trouble is that, after social has gone mental about him, anyone who isn't Schumacher will necessarily always be worse than Schumacher definitely would have been.