Pointing the way. Stevenage at home Sat, 3rd May 3-0'clock

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

He's going to have to do some coaching too. He talked yesterday about the players still doing mad things. Couple of times they played themselves into trouble. Still a hangover of the last content for me. There's a lot of quality in there still. Unless there's absolutely no money and no wiggle room we should be play offs minimum. I think we can win it, but there's work to be done.

Yep. One in each half, as I recall; one of them genuinely made me laugh, it was that inept, like a small girl falling over in her mother's high-heeled shoes.

I like to think Schumacher will be coaching them out of these habits but will also be bolstered by one or two (or six) new players saying "er, WTF are you doing?!"

[TANGODANCER]

I feel that it’s a total rebuild time and that doesn’t necessarily correspond to a cracking start to the season. I don’t know what reaction that gets but for me it will very much depend on what resources he’s had and how many spaces he’s managed to free up. If he can only add 3 or 4 in the summer then I’d buckle up for needing another two windows to sort it - no doubt many will not have that patience but comes down to how the club sees it.

Okay, like the rest of us I'd obviously like us to become better and achieve consistency but will that be enough? How much success will Schumacher actually need to have proved his worth? I'm not deliberately being obstructive, but your previous posts indicate that nothing less than promotion will do, in which case failure means he's no different than Evatt?

Even for the Premier heroes, money can't always buy titles and silverware, a fact that can no longer be denied.

[Worthy4England]

I think most people will trade seeing progress for more time. If they rock up August with new additions and look like the last three months, I think legitimate questions will follow.

Yeah I agree but football progress is not always apparent or indeed linear. Bruce Rioch had a pretty poor start and indeed there were catcalls in McGinlay’s debut iirc. Allardyce lost three semi finals in his first season including to Tranmere which many considered a sackable offence at the time.

I feel that it’s a total rebuild time and that doesn’t necessarily correspond to a cracking start to the season. I don’t know what reaction that gets but for me it will very much depend on what resources he’s had and how many spaces he’s managed to free up. If he can only add 3 or 4 in the summer then I’d buckle up for needing another two windows to sort it - no doubt many will not have that patience but comes down to how the club sees it.

Aye as evidenced in 2020, 10 games in, after being bought a team using the Phoenix lottery machine.

Evattout

Be interesting to contemplate this side of the window what would be a decent expectation if he only manages 3/4 additions, but for me it also depends what additions. If they're a 9, 2 wingers and a LB, then it feels like a lot further uphill than if he gets a CD (leader type), DM, 9 and a different 10, to the ones we have.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Be interesting to contemplate this side of the window what would be a decent expectation if he only manages 3/4 additions, but for me it also depends what additions. If they're a 9, 2 wingers and a LB, then it feels like a lot further uphill than if he gets a CD (leader type), DM, 9 and a different 10, to the ones we have.

Fair enough but if he doesn't get a left-back, we can't play the back four he's on record as preferring, unless we trust Conway can step up or we pull a square-peg rabbit out of the hat (Johnston? Thomason?!)

I don't think a 10 will be high on the list as he says the squad is too full of them (and we have a lot of other stuff to do). Obviously we'll find out more this week but I guess just to plug holes we'll need a GK, LB, CF (or two) & at least one winger. But most of us also feel we need a new type of CB and DM.

And of course it depends on the 'slower' exits (not released but listed or available).

The order of importance might not be reflected in the order of hiring - some deals are easier than others - but obviously Schumacher and Harkin will have to allocate slices of their budget to certain things. Good luck to them.

[Worthy4England]

Aye. Not expecting a 10.

And as you say, mate, there is plenty to do, just to hit the new shape. If we just sort up front, then we'll have a new roof, but the walls are still broken, bit like Evatt's signings. We seem over the last few years to have been more focussed on Champ Man attackers. I'd have much rather spent one point two million on a DM than Randall...

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Aye. Not expecting a 10.

And as you say, mate, there is plenty to do, just to hit the new shape. If we just sort up front, then we'll have a new roof, but the walls are still broken, bit like Evatt's signings. We seem over the last few years to have been more focussed on Champ Man attackers. I'd have much rather spent one point two million on a DM than Randall...

Randall feels a very hubristic signing, largely not of his fault. Largely but not entirely because if he'd hit the ground running we might understand the fuss and fee.

[Worthy4England]

Aye. Not expecting a 10.

And as you say, mate, there is plenty to do, just to hit the new shape. If we just sort up front, then we'll have a new roof, but the walls are still broken, bit like Evatt's signings. We seem over the last few years to have been more focussed on Champ Man attackers. I'd have much rather spent one point two million on a DM than Randall...

Randall feels a very hubristic signing, largely not of his fault. Largely but not entirely because if he'd hit the ground running we might understand the fuss and fee.

Indeed. Wasn't just a poke at Randall. I'd have rather we spent McAtee money on a better DM too!

[BWFC_Insane]

I think most people will trade seeing progress for more time. If they rock up August with new additions and look like the last three months, I think legitimate questions will follow.

Yeah I agree but football progress is not always apparent or indeed linear. Bruce Rioch had a pretty poor start and indeed there were catcalls in McGinlay’s debut iirc. Allardyce lost three semi finals in his first season including to Tranmere which many considered a sackable offence at the time.

I feel that it’s a total rebuild time and that doesn’t necessarily correspond to a cracking start to the season. I don’t know what reaction that gets but for me it will very much depend on what resources he’s had and how many spaces he’s managed to free up. If he can only add 3 or 4 in the summer then I’d buckle up for needing another two windows to sort it - no doubt many will not have that patience but comes down to how the club sees it.

Aye as evidenced in 2020, 10 games in, after being bought a team using the Phoenix lottery machine.

Evattout

Be interesting to contemplate this side of the window what would be a decent expectation if he only manages 3/4 additions, but for me it also depends what additions. If they're a 9, 2 wingers and a LB, then it feels like a lot further uphill than if he gets a CD (leader type), DM, 9 and a different 10, to the ones we have.

Yep. I mean last game of the season after a very poor season and all but I didn’t get the vibe yesterday that there was huge confidence round the place that next season would be the one.

Vibes can be misleading but it’s going to take some real drive and know how to fix this I feel and one summer even for the best manager going might be a tough ask. We feel very far away from where we need to be.

Schumacher has to show his skills and show them big time.

[Prufrock]

He's going to have to do some coaching too. He talked yesterday about the players still doing mad things. Couple of times they played themselves into trouble. Still a hangover of the last content for me. There's a lot of quality in there still. Unless there's absolutely no money and no wiggle room we should be play offs minimum. I think we can win it, but there's work to be done.

Yep. One in each half, as I recall; one of them genuinely made me laugh, it was that inept, like a small girl falling over in her mother's high-heeled shoes.

I like to think Schumacher will be coaching them out of these habits but will also be bolstered by one or two (or six) new players saying "er, WTF are you doing?!"

There were the slow motion car crash examples, but another 5-10 where we did the hard bit and played out, and then instead of driving forward, willfully went backwards, sometimes into trouble. I expect us to still want to have a lot of possession and build under SS but there's some "must never give the ball away" circuitry that needs coaching out.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

He's going to have to do some coaching too. He talked yesterday about the players still doing mad things. Couple of times they played themselves into trouble. Still a hangover of the last content for me. There's a lot of quality in there still. Unless there's absolutely no money and no wiggle room we should be play offs minimum. I think we can win it, but there's work to be done.

Yep. One in each half, as I recall; one of them genuinely made me laugh, it was that inept, like a small girl falling over in her mother's high-heeled shoes.

I like to think Schumacher will be coaching them out of these habits but will also be bolstered by one or two (or six) new players saying "er, WTF are you doing?!"

There were the slow motion car crash examples, but another 5-10 where we did the hard bit and played out, and then instead of driving forward, willfully went backwards, sometimes into trouble. I expect us to still want to have a lot of possession and build under SS but there's some "must never give the ball away" circuitry that needs coaching out.

Ah, I see. Yeah, fair. Although I can imagine myself being, I dunno, Thomason driving on from midfield, looking up at Saturday's front three and thinking "erm". Harsh perhaps but for months now I haven't quite known what we're trying to do, nor have I been confident when it reaches the final third that our players do either.

[BWFC_Insane]

The break the press then turn around back into it has to be stopped. It’s ingrained into this team. They all do it. Instead of running forwards and trying to break the lines their natural instinct is to turn round and go sideways. Just ban it over the summer. It almost always results in more pressure on our goal and I don’t think serves a single function beyond maybe when we are trying to hold onto a lead late in a game - when they actually don’t do it and just lump it forwards.

Everything they do has to be either improving our chances of scoring a goal or reducing the oppositions chances of scoring a goal. Anything else is pointless. And turning round does neither - stop it, abandon it and get running.

[Prufrock]

He's going to have to do some coaching too. He talked yesterday about the players still doing mad things. Couple of times they played themselves into trouble. Still a hangover of the last content for me. There's a lot of quality in there still. Unless there's absolutely no money and no wiggle room we should be play offs minimum. I think we can win it, but there's work to be done.

Yep. One in each half, as I recall; one of them genuinely made me laugh, it was that inept, like a small girl falling over in her mother's high-heeled shoes.

I like to think Schumacher will be coaching them out of these habits but will also be bolstered by one or two (or six) new players saying "er, WTF are you doing?!"

There were the slow motion car crash examples, but another 5-10 where we did the hard bit and played out, and then instead of driving forward, willfully went backwards, sometimes into trouble. I expect us to still want to have a lot of possession and build under SS but there's some "must never give the ball away" circuitry that needs coaching out.

Ah, I see. Yeah, fair. Although I can imagine myself being, I dunno, Thomason driving on from midfield, looking up at Saturday's front three and thinking "erm". Harsh perhaps but for months now I haven't quite known what we're trying to do, nor have I been confident when it reaches the final third that our players do either.

I hear what you're saying, but I don't think that's in their heads, it's been ingrained into them, all the "content" and patterns of play. We did notably do it on two occasions, both I think Thomo, and both wonderful right footed passes to set Schon away. That nothing then happened (one was at least a glorious chance for Schon) is for the manger and his chequebook!

I think we are trying to be more purposeful, though it's been patchy (hopefully due to the quality of the XIs we've been able to get out) and Thomo has notably been excellent since. Think it suits him far more, as it has Morley. Both capable of real way above average league 1 quality, both capable of fluffing their lines and giving it away cheaply. The latter matters a lot less when the thing you fluff is 40 yards up the pitch.

To go back to my Ian Graham reading, I wonder if Evatt could be our Brendan Rogers (not a bad manager in the scheme of things for Liverpool, signed some good players who were key to their success, had some good days, but ultimately wasn't their one, obsessed with possession for the sake of it, and then the wheels came off) before being replaced by the manager who took them onto the next level, with some key signings and a change of approach. As a boyhood blue, I'm not sure SS would appreciate the comparison, but it's the time of year for hope.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

To go back to my Ian Graham reading, I wonder if Evatt could be our Brendan Rogers (not a bad manager in the scheme of things for Liverpool, signed some good players who were key to their success, had some good days, but ultimately wasn't their one, obsessed with possession for the sake of it, and then the wheels came off) before being replaced by the manager who took them onto the next level, with some key signings and a change of approach. As a boyhood blue, I'm not sure SS would appreciate the comparison, but it's the time of year for hope.

Interesting. Yeah let's hope so.

I often think about Rodgers' near-miss because in 2014 - while the Old Trafford bench was still warm from Fergie's arse-cheeks - I wrote a FourFourTwo cover story comparing Liverpool's fall and United's rise in the early-90s with possibility of the opposite happening. I got the Liverpool manager wrong - as you say, it was the next guy, and but for City having Pep (and financial doping) Klopp might have won another two, three or four titles - but I was definitely right about the fall of the Rags' empire, and I think you can read the excitement between the lines....

https://www.garyparkinsonmedia.com/all- ... vice-versa

[Harry Genshaw]

I enjoyed that ^ DSB. Cheers.

I had to Google Ezequiel Garay but otherwise a time that's fondly remembered. That cringe inducing, 3 names in the envelope of Rodgers was very much an Evatt type thing and as believable as Ian's "I've had a letter from a fan" & "I don't read social media".

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I enjoyed that ^ DSB. Cheers.

I had to Google Ezequiel Garay but otherwise a time that's fondly remembered. That cringe inducing, 3 names in the envelope of Rodgers was very much an Evatt type thing and as believable as Ian's "I've had a letter from a fan" & "I don't read social media".

Cheers pal. Loads more on that site, have at it if you're bored enough... https://www.garyparkinsonmedia.com/all- ... y=Football

We can add Garay to the list of players I presumably knew about at the time of writing but haven't spent a second thinking about since

[Prufrock]

To go back to my Ian Graham reading, I wonder if Evatt could be our Brendan Rogers (not a bad manager in the scheme of things for Liverpool, signed some good players who were key to their success, had some good days, but ultimately wasn't their one, obsessed with possession for the sake of it, and then the wheels came off) before being replaced by the manager who took them onto the next level, with some key signings and a change of approach. As a boyhood blue, I'm not sure SS would appreciate the comparison, but it's the time of year for hope.

Interesting. Yeah let's hope so.

I often think about Rodgers' near-miss because in 2014 - while the Old Trafford bench was still warm from Fergie's arse-cheeks - I wrote a FourFourTwo cover story comparing Liverpool's fall and United's rise in the early-90s with possibility of the opposite happening. I got the Liverpool manager wrong - as you say, it was the next guy, and but for City having Pep (and financial doping) Klopp might have won another two, three or four titles - but I was definitely right about the fall of the Rags' empire, and I think you can read the excitement between the lines....

https://www.garyparkinsonmedia.com/all- ... vice-versa

enjoyed that.

This was prescient: " while April’s Anfield visits of Man City and Chelsea could prove crucial in the title race"!

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

This was prescient: " while April’s Anfield visits of Man City and Chelsea could prove crucial in the title race"!

ha, if only I'd used the "no slip-ups" line