The Politics Thread

[Worthy4England]

Virtually back in the EU, thank you Starmer, you undemocratic, thinly veiled bar steward. When you fall, I hope it's from a great height.

I thought we were supposed to move on from "Brexit" - we're still left under the terms clearly stated in the referendum. So quit you're skriking, snowflake.

[Prufrock]

As predictable as it is mental. On what possible planet are we "virtually back in the EU"?!

[Worthy4England]

^^Im not writing a manifesto - I’m not in politics have no affiliation to any party and certainly couldn’t be bothered with it if it was my job.

Welfare would need looking at across the piece but the point I’m making is simple. There are broadly with an ageing population with declining work force going to be two outcomes - either you cut welfare and that would involve some cuts to pensions given they are iirc the biggest welfare expense still and of course will rise in future years - or your import a larger workforce to generate the tax bill necessary to continue existing welfare support.

If it were me I’d choose the latter personally. But we can’t have it both ways.

I don’t take issue with your thesis on capitalism or employers and wages as I’ve said before. I don’t take issue that the government nor the last lot nor whoever the next lot is don’t have any answers for that. I agree. Though where I differ is I’m not seeing any workable answer from anywhere that aren’t just pie in the sky things.

But the last paragraph for me sums it up. It is generational resentment both ways. Like it or not that is what it is. And I think gen z on are the ones who sadly will pay most. All I’m suggesting is that we spread the pain out rather that concentrate it all on the future. OR avoid it by accepting that our labour market needs to be transient.

I have zero resentment against any generation - just to be clear. My last para doesn't mention "generations" at all. It points out that as a Civil Servant (which I was for 13 years as a sprog), I absolutely didn't work more than 37 hours, did use flexi and got days off in lieu. I'm pretty sure that's not the same, for example, for a junior doctor, but I know a lot of Civil Servants are still working that sort of deal. There shouldn't be an expectation that people who work those very extended hours over long periods, just bail out people doing 37 hours or who aren't working at all. That's not to say I'm unhappy to pay all my tax due, I'm fine with that.

[Worthy4England]

As predictable as it is mental. On what possible planet are we "virtually back in the EU"?!

We will be able to use e-gates again. What a fcuking disaster. I'd much rather be waiting in a long queue, scowling at all the Johnny Foreigners passing through seamlessly, whilst singing Rule Britannia.

[BWFC_Insane]

The bits of welfare that need sorting are things like housing. How much are we paying out to house folk in profit driven accommodation? How about we define affordable housing based on affordability rather than an arbitrary amount under market rate. Build the housing needed, even if it takes 20 years to catch up. The long run is pays for itself and provides jobs. Just don't let the big housebuilders anywhere near it.

I'd also like to see pensions taken out of the welfare bucket. It isn't welfare and only makes the number overall number sound worse, allowing the hard of thinking to agree with the right wing about scroungers and immigrants getting gold plated lives at the expense of minimum wage workers.

Yes and could have in the interim rent caps. I will give you a guess as to which generation objects most loudly to any sort of rent price control….

[BWFC_Insane]

As predictable as it is mental. On what possible planet are we "virtually back in the EU"?!

The planet where people never understood what the EU was nor what membership of it entailed. That one.

[BWFC_Insane]

I think the deal today sums up a lot of Labour’s problems. The deal is something that has been secured way above the expectations of people if you go back a year and see the questions to Labour about ‘how it could get a deal Ben the EU weren’t interested and that it would take years’. The concessions we’ve made although predictably blown up by the right wing media are small fry. Extending current fishing arrangements by 12 years is neither here nor there economically speaking - it’s like nothing in reality.

But Starmer has done it quietly without performance and without grandstanding. If he’d spent the last year going on about how we should rejoin the EU and engaging in and doing all the performative stuff he’d probably receive a lot more credit from the half or whatever of the population that wanted to rejoin. Instead it’s all been done quietly and professionally but does that cut it in the days of performative identity politics with social media driving it?

[Worthy4England]

The bits of welfare that need sorting are things like housing. How much are we paying out to house folk in profit driven accommodation? How about we define affordable housing based on affordability rather than an arbitrary amount under market rate. Build the housing needed, even if it takes 20 years to catch up. The long run is pays for itself and provides jobs. Just don't let the big housebuilders anywhere near it.

I'd also like to see pensions taken out of the welfare bucket. It isn't welfare and only makes the number overall number sound worse, allowing the hard of thinking to agree with the right wing about scroungers and immigrants getting gold plated lives at the expense of minimum wage workers.

Yes and could have in the interim rent caps. I will give you a guess as to which generation objects most loudly to any sort of rent price control….

Are landlords a generation? I'm heading towards the generation you refer too, I have no objections to rent price control - so where / who are these people if they're not landlords?

[BWFC_Insane]

The bits of welfare that need sorting are things like housing. How much are we paying out to house folk in profit driven accommodation? How about we define affordable housing based on affordability rather than an arbitrary amount under market rate. Build the housing needed, even if it takes 20 years to catch up. The long run is pays for itself and provides jobs. Just don't let the big housebuilders anywhere near it.

I'd also like to see pensions taken out of the welfare bucket. It isn't welfare and only makes the number overall number sound worse, allowing the hard of thinking to agree with the right wing about scroungers and immigrants getting gold plated lives at the expense of minimum wage workers.

Yes and could have in the interim rent caps. I will give you a guess as to which generation objects most loudly to any sort of rent price control….

Are landlords a generation? I'm heading towards the generation you refer too, I have no objections to rent price control - so where / who are these people if they're not landlords?

Ha no. It was a bit tongue in cheek. If we polled it though you and I both know predominantly where the opposition would come from and it wouldn’t be under 30’s

[Worthy4England]

I know mate.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

The bits of welfare that need sorting are things like housing. How much are we paying out to house folk in profit driven accommodation? How about we define affordable housing based on affordability rather than an arbitrary amount under market rate. Build the housing needed, even if it takes 20 years to catch up. The long run is pays for itself and provides jobs. Just don't let the big housebuilders anywhere near it.

I'd also like to see pensions taken out of the welfare bucket. It isn't welfare and only makes the number overall number sound worse, allowing the hard of thinking to agree with the right wing about scroungers and immigrants getting gold plated lives at the expense of minimum wage workers.

Yes and could have in the interim rent caps. I will give you a guess as to which generation objects most loudly to any sort of rent price control….

Not sure rent caps really work. We had them in Dubai and didn't stop rents going up year on year by a fair amount. Just get decent social housing right in the long term and the private rental market shrinks. Also means folk don't feel they need to get on the housing ladder as they can afford rent. Want something fancy? Private rent or buy.

[Hoboh]

As predictable as it is mental. On what possible planet are we "virtually back in the EU"?!

Wait and see smarty pants. We are at the top of the slide and paying to be there yet again.

[Hoboh]

As predictable as it is mental. On what possible planet are we "virtually back in the EU"?!

We will be able to use e-gates again. What a fcuking disaster. I'd much rather be waiting in a long queue, scowling at all the Johnny Foreigners passing through seamlessly, whilst singing Rule Britannia.

Wow! You can now visit France as well quicker, get through the e-gates at Charles de Gaulle then bend over for the little Napolean t#at just like Starmer has and does on a regular basis.

[Hoboh]

As predictable as it is mental. On what possible planet are we "virtually back in the EU"?!

The planet where people never understood what the EU was nor what membership of it entailed. That one.

Yeah the same planet as the globalist, secret commies, who hate free markets unless they control them totally, that one. Or, is it those who would quite happily sell a deceased relatives house for the maximum going rate whilst complaining about affordable housing, rents etc. for the poor, arse wiped until at least mid-twenties poor little children who have been to Uni but cannot tie their own fcukin' shoelace 'cause mummy always did that.

[Hoboh]

I think the deal today sums up a lot of Labour’s problems. The deal is something that has been secured way above the expectations of people if you go back a year and see the questions to Labour about ‘how it could get a deal Ben the EU weren’t interested and that it would take years’. The concessions we’ve made although predictably blown up by the right wing media are small fry. Extending current fishing arrangements by 12 years is neither here nor there economically speaking - it’s like nothing in reality.

But Starmer has done it quietly without performance and without grandstanding. If he’d spent the last year going on about how we should rejoin the EU and engaging in and doing all the performative stuff he’d probably receive a lot more credit from the half or whatever of the population that wanted to rejoin. Instead it’s all been done quietly and professionally but does that cut it in the days of performative identity politics with social media driving it?

Oh just adding £360 million to the tax payers bill to support the Fisherman who trade you've just destroyed and that is small fry to the other 'payments' to the EU slipping out to secure an uptick of 9 billion to the GDP by, yes, 20 feckin 40!
The only thing that lier Starmer deserves is booting out of office and kicked out of the sordid legal club for misrepresentation of human rights.
Credit my ass.

[Worthy4England]

I think the deal today sums up a lot of Labour’s problems. The deal is something that has been secured way above the expectations of people if you go back a year and see the questions to Labour about ‘how it could get a deal Ben the EU weren’t interested and that it would take years’. The concessions we’ve made although predictably blown up by the right wing media are small fry. Extending current fishing arrangements by 12 years is neither here nor there economically speaking - it’s like nothing in reality.

But Starmer has done it quietly without performance and without grandstanding. If he’d spent the last year going on about how we should rejoin the EU and engaging in and doing all the performative stuff he’d probably receive a lot more credit from the half or whatever of the population that wanted to rejoin. Instead it’s all been done quietly and professionally but does that cut it in the days of performative identity politics with social media driving it?

Oh just adding £360 million to the tax payers bill to support the Fisherman who trade you've just destroyed and that is small fry to the other 'payments' to the EU slipping out to secure an uptick of 9 billion to the GDP by, yes, 20 feckin 40!
The only thing that lier Starmer deserves is booting out of office and kicked out of the sordid legal club for misrepresentation of human rights.
Credit my ass.

On the final bit, Hobes, I have some really great news for you, if you think your human rights have been unduly interfered with - you could take that all the way to the ECHR. What brilliant news for you.

[BWFC_Insane]

I think the deal today sums up a lot of Labour’s problems. The deal is something that has been secured way above the expectations of people if you go back a year and see the questions to Labour about ‘how it could get a deal Ben the EU weren’t interested and that it would take years’. The concessions we’ve made although predictably blown up by the right wing media are small fry. Extending current fishing arrangements by 12 years is neither here nor there economically speaking - it’s like nothing in reality.

But Starmer has done it quietly without performance and without grandstanding. If he’d spent the last year going on about how we should rejoin the EU and engaging in and doing all the performative stuff he’d probably receive a lot more credit from the half or whatever of the population that wanted to rejoin. Instead it’s all been done quietly and professionally but does that cut it in the days of performative identity politics with social media driving it?

Oh just adding £360 million to the tax payers bill to support the Fisherman who trade you've just destroyed and that is small fry to the other 'payments' to the EU slipping out to secure an uptick of 9 billion to the GDP by, yes, 20 feckin 40!
The only thing that lier Starmer deserves is booting out of office and kicked out of the sordid legal club for misrepresentation of human rights.
Credit my ass.

Can I point out that they’ve actually improved significantly the ability of our fishing industry to trade. Because they can now sell into their biggest market - which is the EU.

For a lot of fish there isn’t even an internal UK market. So the idea that protectionism matters is for the birds.

Yes that market access alongside market access for meat and other food comes at a price - but the price of continuing current fishing access arrangements (that have been in place since 2020 I should add) for twelve more years is pretty damn small compared to the pay off. The tiny small independent fisherman with a stall in Cornwall
might be unhappy and that’s a shame. But food producers round the country are celebrating as they can once again sell stuff into their biggest market and make more money and once again sell other stuff with less regulation and red tape and make more money. Which is good for the economy and jobs.

That’s how it works. That’s trade. And it’s going to help the economy have the best chance of growing and simultaneously offer the best chance to reduce supermarket prices.

That’s reality. If you want more expensive stuff and less economic benefit and in effect to be poorer vote for it again.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

The fishermen/women were fecked over when they voted for Boris and his chums and the subsequent oven ready deal (which was a rebranded hash of the May one that he said was shit). The new deal is no worse for said fishermen/women and actually improves their ability to sell their catches.

If you really want to understand why our fishing industry has largely died, you need to go back to 1989 when the EU was offering matched funding to update fishing fleets. We decided not to get involved as our finance industry was all that mattered back then. It mean European fisheries modernised and we didn't. Any of ours that did, did so at far greater cost to themselves, meaning our industry is less competitive.

lastly, if we're prioritising minor industries at the expense of everything/one else. Shall we not also fight for clogs makers, or demand greater market access for those Harris Tweed makers in the Hebrides? I know joined up thinking isn't a strong point, but if you stop thinking in small single issues and look at bigger pictures you might spend less time angry and pissed off with the gammons...

[Hoboh]

The fishermen/women were fecked over when they voted for Boris and his chums and the subsequent oven ready deal (which was a rebranded hash of the May one that he said was shit). The new deal is no worse for said fishermen/women and actually improves their ability to sell their catches.

If you really want to understand why our fishing industry has largely died, you need to go back to 1989 when the EU was offering matched funding to update fishing fleets. We decided not to get involved as our finance industry was all that mattered back then. It mean European fisheries modernised and we didn't. Any of ours that did, did so at far greater cost to themselves, meaning our industry is less competitive.

lastly, if we're prioritising minor industries at the expense of everything/one else. Shall we not also fight for clogs makers, or demand greater market access for those Harris Tweed makers in the Hebrides? I know joined up thinking isn't a strong point, but if you stop thinking in small single issues and look at bigger pictures you might spend less time angry and pissed off with the gammons...

The 'bigger picture' is, yet again we are paying money into a club, taking the club rules for in actual fact, little gain for the UK but the old enemies, France make far more gains.

[Worthy4England]

I'm starting to wonder is Hobe's is actually Donald Trump. I mean multiple posts in a short space of time, early in the morning, can smell the covfefe...It's either that, or he bought some of that whisky home, methinks. It has all the hallmarks.