Thats us out then...

[ratbert]

For fecks sake, Italy ditched their defensive style years ago

Won them the World Cup in 1982 though. What have they done since?

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

England has not played to its potential - true. Yet however crappy the lads have been, the teams they play have been crappier. We are in the quarter finals so mission accomplished so far. The time for us to moan and second guess is when we are doing whatever Poland, the US, Sweden et al are currently doing. I'd rather be an England fan than a Dutch one right now. I can't understand the perpetual state of pessimism that pervades the thoughts of some members of this board. Enjoy the moment, chaps, it won't come around again for another four years.

I'm not pessimistic - far from it. I'm delighted we're through, and I'd be delighted to win the cup by playing boring football. However, the fact remains that for 90 minutes yesterday it felt like my eyes were bleeding.

[superjohnmcginlay]

It would be a travesty to football if England win the world cup playing the way they are.


England unfortunately are the international version of Bolton.

I doubt we'll win it playing like that, but if we did it would be fecking hilarious.

England have been trying to do Bolton to a degree, but they arent doing it very well.

[Dr.Karl]

For fecks sake, Italy ditched their defensive style years ago

Won them the World Cup in 1982 though. What have they done since?

Er, reached two major finals.

[50sQuiff]

Italy play good football anyway, negative or otherwise

And yes they have completely ditched their defensive style, in adapting to the different strengths of the players available to them.

I'm not sure how anyone can reach the conclusion that England's best chance of success given their personnel is to play negative, static, long ball football.

[Tombwfc]

Italy play good football anyway, negative or otherwise

And yes they have completely ditched their defensive style, in adapting to the different strengths of the players available to them.

I'm not sure how anyone can reach the conclusion that England's best chance of success given their personnel is to play negative, static, long ball football.

I don't think anybody has, but while we are doing, and while we're winning, i'm certainly not going to complain.

We've been spectacular failures for years now, i'd be quite happy with boring winners. Thats why when we win the World Cup i'll be celebrating while fanz will be on here whinging about how England are a disgrace to world football.

[Soldier_Of_The_White_Army]

Ask yourself, if you stood in a the middle of a horde of screaming fans in your local boozer, as you watched Beckham on Terry's shoulders lift the World Cup slap bang in the middle of Germany. Would you really care about how we played to get there?

I'm sure Monty will remember that England's 1966 team didn't kick in until the semi final! I don't give a flying xxxx how we get there. I'd rather we did it in third gear playing crap football at times, then diving/rolling around/branishing invisible cards etc.

If you are gutted at how we are playing at the moment with such a talented team, just remember French and Argentina in the last World Cup

It's coming home boys and girls!

And if you can't stand to watch it happen, there is always the off switch.

[Montreal Wanderer]

I'm sure Monty will remember that England's 1966 team didn't kick in until the semi final! I don't give a flying xxxx how we get there. I'd rather we did it in third gear playing crap football at times, then diving/rolling around/branishing invisible cards etc.

I remember it well but, apart from the first game against Uruguay (one of the dirtiest bunch of thugs I had ever seen) - a dire 0-0 tie, we handled the group games pretty easily. Then there was a close 1-0 against Argentina (Hurst scoring quite late on) and we were in the semis - it was a lot smaller tournament then. Naturally we met Portugal in the semi and they had one of the great footballers of his time, Eusebio, playing for them (he had just come off at four goal performance against North korea at Goodison - a really great game to see). So I don't think we played that crap, although we played really well in the last two games. We had a great goalie, strong defence, good link men and some fairly useful forwards - but mostly they played as a team. That's what seems to missing this year - man for man we are as good as anyone, but our tactics seem questionable. However, I'm quite optimistic about the Portugal game.

[Nozza]

If I wanted to watch shit football, I would watch Sunderla....oh shit.

[wovlad]

For me the one person holding England back is Sven. In the last two games we've played a new formation with an untried team selection.

There has been a lot of critism about worthless friendlies yet we've played the least number of
them this year of any team in the tournament. 6 I think compared to Mexico's 26 over the same period.
They were the best to go out thus far in my book. Not the best players but played like a team. We've
been a cohesive unit only sporadically during the competition.

My point is we should'nt be making the radical changes he has done so late in the day. He has had long enough to recity the Lampard & Gerrard problem and has'nt. Long enough to sort out the formation and hasn't. Thankfully he has'nt tinkered with the defense which has looked pretty good Rio & Ashley Cole
in particular

I've said this before however well we do in the world cup it will be in spite of Sven not because of him.

[david lee's bald patch]

For me the one person holding England back is Sven. In the last two games we've played a new formation with an untried team selection.

There has been a lot of critism about worthless friendlies yet we've played the least number of
them this year of any team in the tournament. 6 I think compared to Mexico's 26 over the same period.
They were the best to go out thus far in my book. Not the best players but played like a team. We've
been a cohesive unit only sporadically during the competition.

My point is we should'nt be making the radical changes he has done so late in the day. He has had long enough to recity the Lampard & Gerrard problem and has'nt. Long enough to sort out the formation and hasn't. Thankfully he has'nt tinkered with the defense which has looked pretty good Rio & Ashley Cole
in particular

I've said this before however well we do in the world cup it will be in spite of Sven not because of him.

Part of Sven's problem is the press - and more importantly his fear of them.
He's too scared to drop either of the midfield golden boys (Becks, Lamps or Gerrard) and so pisses around trying to accomodate them all.

Totally agree with your assertion that more friendlies equals a more cohesive team - if Sven didn't waste the ones we had by changing half the team at half time - what exactly has he ever learnt from doing that. I'll tell what I learnt - that 45 min of international football isn't enough to impress him and out you go in favour of a child who has never played top flight football.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I'll tell what I learnt - that 45 min of international football isn't enough to impress him and out you go in favour of a child who has never played top flight football.

Just don't wind me up...! Darren Bent has every right to be the most pissed off bloke in the country at the moment.

[david lee's bald patch]

I'll tell what I learnt - that 45 min of international football isn't enough to impress him and out you go in favour of a child who has never played top flight football.

Just don't wind me up...! Darren Bent has every right to be the most pissed off bloke in the country at the moment.

Ye she does and he's probably not actually in the country at the mo

[TANGODANCER]

[I remember it well but, apart from the first game against Uruguay (one of the dirtiest bunch of thugs I had ever seen) - a dire 0-0 tie, we handled the group games pretty easily. Then there was a close 1-0 against Argentina (Hurst scoring quite late on) and we were in the semis - it was a lot smaller tournament then. Naturally we met Portugal in the semi and they had one of the great footballers of his time, Eusebio, playing for them (he had just come off at four goal performance against North korea at Goodison - a really great game to see). So I don't think we played that crap, although we played really well in the last two games. We had a great goalie, strong defence, good link men and some fairly useful forwards - but mostly they played as a team. That's what seems to missing this year - man for man we are as good as anyone, but our tactics seem questionable. However, I'm quite optimistic about the Portugal game.

I also remember this well. We weren't really expected to beat Poartugal, and all the talk was of Eusabio. Insted it was Booby Charlton who turned it on and we came out worthy winners. Was it Torres (big tall chap) who was their centre half?

[Nozza]

For me the one person holding England back is Sven. In the last two games we've played a new formation with an untried team selection.

There has been a lot of critism about worthless friendlies yet we've played the least number of
them this year of any team in the tournament. 6 I think compared to Mexico's 26 over the same period.
They were the best to go out thus far in my book. Not the best players but played like a team. We've
been a cohesive unit only sporadically during the competition.

My point is we should'nt be making the radical changes he has done so late in the day. He has had long enough to recity the Lampard & Gerrard problem and has'nt. Long enough to sort out the formation and hasn't. Thankfully he has'nt tinkered with the defense which has looked pretty good Rio & Ashley Cole
in particular

I've said this before however well we do in the world cup it will be in spite of Sven not because of him.

Sven is holding England back, I agree. But things don't look much better...Russia, Croatia and Isreal must be licking their lips...

[Montreal Wanderer]

[I remember it well but, apart from the first game against Uruguay (one of the dirtiest bunch of thugs I had ever seen) - a dire 0-0 tie, we handled the group games pretty easily. Then there was a close 1-0 against Argentina (Hurst scoring quite late on) and we were in the semis - it was a lot smaller tournament then. Naturally we met Portugal in the semi and they had one of the great footballers of his time, Eusebio, playing for them (he had just come off at four goal performance against North korea at Goodison - a really great game to see). So I don't think we played that crap, although we played really well in the last two games. We had a great goalie, strong defence, good link men and some fairly useful forwards - but mostly they played as a team. That's what seems to missing this year - man for man we are as good as anyone, but our tactics seem questionable. However, I'm quite optimistic about the Portugal game.

I also remember this well. We weren't really expected to beat Poartugal, and all the talk was of Eusabio. Insted it was Booby Charlton who turned it on and we came out worthy winners. Was it Torres (big tall chap) who was their centre half?

They had had a guy called Jose Torres, but he played up front with Eusebio for Portugal and for Benfica. Eusebio scored a ton of goals in the tourney (well 9 or 10) and few others came close. Pele was brutalized by the Bulgarians, missed the Hungary game which Brazil lost, and then was hurt again against Portugal. The champions didn't make it out of the group stages. I figured Portugal could be beaten because they gave up 3 goals against North Korea in the first half of the quarter final. However, they were favoured against England. But we had Gordon Banks and it took a late penalty to beat him after we were up 2-0.

[norm the jedi]

In a bizarre twist... whilst I hate Bolton playing unentertaining footie for an entire season.. I am more pragmatic about England..
Being Largely self employed I have been near a tele for 80% of the games..
Thus far I have been very entertained by

Spain
Holland
Czech republic
Cote D'ivore
Ghana
Mexico

I'll settle for dull on that basis..
The fabulous Brazil.. have for the most part been ordinary to watch.. but finish clinically..
France were in an exciting game last night.. but how much goal mouth action was there?...
Ukraine....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
If Frankie Lampard had had his sensible Winfield leather toe capped ankle lace ups on we'd have cruised by Ecuador..
The performances have not been hugely pretty... but as my recent big tournament memories of Entertaining England games usually mean entertaining defeats.. and before anyone pulls the Argies from South Korea last WC .. it was gripping and exciting because we were involved.. but it wasn't total footie..

We have no strikers.. Bolton and Greece have proved you can be successfull this way...
If we win the cup playing this way.. who the feck cares..................
If we put on a show and go out ........... what's the point?

In this arena the result is all that matters... Good defending is part of the game too you know...
Lighten up and and sing your hearts out...

[Zulus Thousand of em]

Norm's on the button here!

[Mar]

We have no strikers.. Bolton and Greece have proved you can be successfull this way...
If we win the cup playing this way.. who the feck cares..................
If we put on a show and go out ........... what's the point?

It's alright saying that if we win the cup playing this way who cares. But if we don't win it, we've had to sit through the competition enduring watching rubbish football for the sake of playing rubbish football. We all know England can match the best in the world yet we're having to endure so much shoddy performances in the best tournament in the world.

If we put on a show and go out at least we'll have the memories of putting on that show. Take Argentina for example, if they go out they'll still be able to look back and say what a cracking victory it was when they slotted home 6 goals against respectable European opposition. Yet when we look back we can say what a shoddy performance it was against Paraguay, T&T, Sweden and Ecuador.

At this present moment, i'd be happy with just one decent England performance.

[Montreal Wanderer]

Take Argentina for example, if they go out they'll still be able to look back and say what a cracking victory it was when they slotted home 6 goals against respectable European opposition.
At this present moment, i'd be happy with just one decent England performance.

I'm not sure they've been respectable since Tito was alive. I doubt the Spanish fans are taking much solace from thrashing the Ukraine right now, Mar. We have been better than the opposition so far which is all Brazil have been really. Let's wait until after Portugal. Cheer up - you could be Dutch.