Racism?

communistworkethic · Post by **communistworkethic** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 2:33 pm

TANGODANCER wrote:
Montreal Wanderer wrote:
TANGODANCER wrote:Limeys, Poms, Whiteys, Honkies, Brits, Yanks, Ozzies, Kiwis, you name it, the white race has had it all for centuries.
These examples are not for the white race, TD, they are for English-speaking peoples, or natives of countries that were once British, and created by English speakers. .
"Limeys"came from English sailors (mainly white then) sucking limes as a cure for scurvy during sea voyages. "Whitey", speaks for itself. "Honky" came from Harlem where white guys would drive around in cars trying to pick up black girls.

What bothers me most is Black history, Black music, Black culture etc. Are these things now something to be ashamed of? If not, why is it such a sin to use the word? It's just a word that defines all thes things. What is wrong with that? I'd love to hear a few black views on the topic.

I think the thing here is, is the adverb actually necessary in the context?

My point about the possibility of Knobpolisher fishing in the music thread was in this context - to paraphrase "i think it's by some black girl. Yeah it's Nina Simone...." Now in that context do you need the colour of her skin? Is it relevant? Would it be more relevant if he didn't think it was Nina Simone? Would, " Yeah I think it's Nina Simone", have been all that's required?

If you are talking about culture that is specifically related to black people then calling it "black culture" is not an issue. If you decsribe a person a black man it might not necessarily be denigrating but at the same time is the adverb required in that context? In a society where colour should not be an issue, isn't he just a man? Shouldn't we look beyond the colour of his skin. Yes if you have to describe him to identify him against others the colour of his skin may be an important detail but other than that is it?

I hold no truck for the muppets who want to ban "baa baa black sheep" and change "blackboard" etc. But at the same time I think we have to move with the times and society's make up if we are to truly be an intergrated multi-cultered community.

runningonbravado · Post by **runningonbravado** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 2:46 pm

i think the fact that in the media and music and things, black people (especially americans) are calling each other "nigger" and things like that, which if you ask me it's out of order. if you're going to label yourself a "nigger", why complain when others address you the same way?

knobpolisher · Post by **knobpolisher** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 2:53 pm

My point in the non-fishing music thread was :-

I Knew the song.

I was pretty sure the singer was Black.

I thought it may be Nina Simone , although I wasn't sure.

So therefore I would have looked stupid to write "I think its by a girl it may be Nina Simone' , so the Black bit had relevance. Similarly if we had been discussing a U2 song (why is it not an U2 song) would it have been racist to say 'I think its by some Irish band'. The use of Black or Irish in these circumstances narrows the field.

TANGODANCER · Post by **TANGODANCER** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 2:59 pm

runningonbravado wrote:i think the fact that in the media and music and things, black people (especially americans) are calling each other "nigger" and things like that, which if you ask me it's out of order. if you're going to label yourself a "nigger", why complain when others address you the same way?

Hmm. Not sure that's a good benchmark ronb. Jews can tell jokes about Jews, Negroes about Negroes, Irish about Irish etc etc. Anyone else does it it is now regarded as insulting. Like or no, that's the way it is and we must respect that. This is where it's hard to define where insult is intended. My family are way back Irish. I love Irish jokes and have never known the Irish complain. There are still lots of grey areas (no joke intended). It isn't so much the concept or description, but the attitude of the people using them that's the real problem. That's much harder to categorize.

communistworkethic · Post by **communistworkethic** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:03 pm

my point is, Nina Simone is obviously a girl but does her skin have any relevance?And as much, does her sex ? Was "I think it's Nina Simone" as much as was required? You had a name, you couldn't narrow it down any further.

The U2 example is out too. They are Irish, she is American. For it to be the same would you have said, "i think it's some white group, yeah it's U2"? I doubt it. Using nationality to describe is not the same as colour of skin.

I'm not criticising, at the time I just wondered as I don't see that it was required in that particular context and the post seemed to coincide with this thread.

Bruce Rioja · Post by **Bruce Rioja** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:12 pm

I wouldn't know who Nina Simone was if she was stood at the door!

warthog · Post by **warthog** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:15 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:I wouldn't know who Nina Simone was if she was stood at the door!

If she's stood at the door you've got big problems. She died in 2003.

CrazyHorse · Post by **CrazyHorse** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:16 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:I wouldn't know who Nina Simone was if she was stood at the door!

Here you go:

http://www.ninasimone.com/

Soldier_Of_The_White_Army · Post by **Soldier_Of_The_White_Army** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:16 pm

warthog wrote:
Bruce Rioja wrote:I wouldn't know who Nina Simone was if she was stood at the door!
If she's stood at the door you've got big problems. She died in 2003.

warthog · Post by **warthog** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:19 pm

Soldier_Of_The_White_Army wrote:
warthog wrote:
Bruce Rioja wrote:I wouldn't know who Nina Simone was if she was stood at the door!
If she's stood at the door you've got big problems. She died in 2003.

And she was cremated. And her ashes were scattered in six different countries. ( I got to that website before Crazyhorse did.)

Bruce Rioja · Post by **Bruce Rioja** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:21 pm

CrazyHorse wrote:
Bruce Rioja wrote:I wouldn't know who Nina Simone was if she was stood at the door!
Here you go:

http://www.ninasimone.com/

Cheers Hoss.

For the benefit of the record, were she alive and well and whistling Dixie I'd still be none the wiser. Although I think that my mum liked her. Is she one of the Ella Fizgerald type (Musically, and no, not my mum either.

)?

TANGODANCER · Post by **TANGODANCER** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:30 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote: Is she one of the Ella Fizgerald type (Musically, and no, not my mum either. )?

Ella? Who mentioned the Queen of song. My favourite female singer of all time.

knobpolisher · Post by **knobpolisher** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:33 pm

Did Nina Simone do a song called 'Ain't got no I got life' which is currently being used for a Muller advert ?

thebish · Post by **thebish** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:36 pm

indeed - that's one of her her famousest along with "my baby just cares for me"

Gertie · Post by **Gertie** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:37 pm

Her CD is really really good actually...

Although, I doubt anyone will be taking music recommendations from me.

TT Forever!!!

communistworkethic · Post by **communistworkethic** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:16 pm

nina simone is one of the all time greatest solo artists the world has ever seen. The only woman who can make jazz listenable.

TANGODANCER · Post by **TANGODANCER** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:21 pm

communistworkethic wrote:nina simone is one of the all time greatest solo artists the world has ever seen. The only woman who can make jazz listenable.

Cleo Laine, Ella, Dinah Washington, Pearl Bailey and I don't know how many more.

communistworkethic · Post by **communistworkethic** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:27 pm

TANGODANCER wrote:
communistworkethic wrote:nina simone is one of the all time greatest solo artists the world has ever seen. The only woman who can make jazz listenable.
Cleo Laine, Ella, Dinah Washington, Pearl Bailey and I don't know how many more.

Cleo Laine???- I rest my case!

InsaneApache · Post by **InsaneApache** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:08 pm

knobpolisher wrote:Did Nina Simone do a song called 'Ain't got no I got life' which is currently being used for a Muller advert ?

It may be, however, I believe it comes from the musical Hair in the first instance.

A little research et voila.

"'Nuff Said!" (US, 1968, RCA VICTOR LSP 4065)

• Arr: Nina Simone. Prod: Joe René for Stroud Prod. & Ent. Inc. (except 11: arr, cond: Horace Ott. Prod: Stroud Prod. & Ent. Inc.)
• Nina Simone (vo, p), Rudy Stevenson (g), Sam Waymon (org), Gene Taylor (b), Buck Clark (d). Live at Westbury Music Fair, Long Island, April 7, 1968. Except: 1 & 8: Same personnel, except Henry Young replacing Rudy Stevenson (g). RCA Studio's, New York City, May 13, 1968. 11: Nina Simone (vo), Paul Griffin (p), Eric Gale-Henry Young-Carl Lynch (g), Gerald Jemmott (b), Bernard Purdie (d, timb), Ernest Hayes (org), Gordon Powell (perc, vb, tam), Wilbur Bascomb- Garnett Brown-Arthur Clarke-F. Haywood-Harold Johnson-Joseph Shepley (wi) RCA Studio's, New York City, June 24, 1968.
• 1. In The Morning 2. Sunday In Savannah 3. Backlash Blues 4. Please Read Me 5. Gin House Blues 6. Why? (The King Of Live Is Dead) 7. Peace Of Mind 8. Ain't Got No-I Got Life 9. I Loves You Porgy 10. Take My Hand Precious Lord 11. Do What You Gotta Do.

thebish · Post by **thebish** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 7:18 pm

TANGODANCER wrote: Cleo Laine, Ella, Dinah Washington, Pearl Bailey and I don't know how many more.

you could take off Cleo Laine (though I did once have a great album of Cleo and dudley moore - him on t'piano, of course..) and replace her with Billie Holliday... (and you forgot Sarah Vaughan)

(Pearl Bailey was more broadway than jazz wasn't she? - do you mean Mildred Bailey? - she was a proper jazz singer)

Phil

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