Here we go again

[TANGODANCER]

Time for a bit of Christmas debate (let's keep it impersonal hey?). An article causing controversy:

The Church of England has challenged the Royal Mail's decision to issue festive stamps devoid of a Christian theme. Snowmen, reindeer, Santa and a Christmas tree make up this year's Christmas collection. The Church said it "regretted" the omission of a Christian theme from the festive set.
The Royal Mail alternates Christmas stamp designs between religious and non-religious every year.
Last year's set included a controversial image of a man and a woman with Hindu markings worshipping the infant Christ.
A C of E spokesman said: "In 2004, the Church of England's General Synod approved a motion calling for Royal Mail to issue Christmas stamps with Christian themes every year.
"We regret that the Royal Mail have decided against continuing last year's welcome return to Christian-themed designs reminding people of the true meaning of Christmas."

This year's collection, on sale now, is the Royal Mail's 40th set of Christmas stamps.
It is the first festive set to include first and second class stamps in two sizes, reflecting the new pricing system which was introduced in August. A Royal Mail spokesman said the festive stamp collections had always alternated between religious and non-religious themes on an annual basis.
"It is about celebrating all elements of Christmas," he said.
"It is something that we have always done. I think people will see this year's issue of stamps as a 'first class' set of Christmas stamps."
The first set of Royal Mail Christmas stamps were issued in 1966 following a national competition for children to come up with festive designs.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Christmas (Christ mas) is a celebration of the birth of Christ. Non Christians see it as a holiday, feast day, celebration of booze and parties or whatever, but it is still the official time it has always been: a time when believers observe one of the most important days in the Christian calender. Without its meaning it is just a week off work. Why then, does anyone see fit to try and spoil it. If they don't want to accept religion, fine, but don't try to prevent Christians from celebrating what it means to them. This is a classic example of the Royal Mail (after all, a money-making business) cow-towing and pandering to the whims of others. Muslim taxi drivers are more than happy to charge double fare at a time of a celebration they don't even accept, never mind celebrate, yet the authorities consistently try to hide behind the "politically correct" card. Everyone is happy to reap the benefits of the season, so respect what it is, even if you don't believe in it.

[communistworkethic]

You can't have Jesus on the stamps every year they'd get boring - like those Christmas cards your aunty sends you.


Just another story blown out of proportion by the mail/express.

Did they bother to check how many times Jesus has been on the Christmas stamps in the last say 20 years? No? Thought not.

[TANGODANCER]

You can't have Jesus on the stamps every year they'd get boring - like those Christmas cards your aunty sends you.


Just another story blown out of proportion by the mail/express.

Did they bother to check how many times Jesus has been on the Christmas stamps in the last say 20 years? No? Thought not.

He's supposed to be there. That's what Christmas is about and the point of the thread. I've no objection to all the trimmings, but don't forget the meaning. Just like Easter, the eggs take priority over another major Christian time of celebration. The are welcome to be there alongside it, but unless the feast is observed you might as well have Halloween eggs, or Walpurgis eggs, Midsommer eggs or Solstice pancakes.

[Bruce Rioja]

They can stick what they want on them for me. It's a postal service, get the fecking letters delivered on time, that's all I ask. If I wanted religion then I'd go to church, not the Post Office.

[communistworkethic]

You can't have Jesus on the stamps every year they'd get boring - like those Christmas cards your aunty sends you.


Just another story blown out of proportion by the mail/express.

Did they bother to check how many times Jesus has been on the Christmas stamps in the last say 20 years? No? Thought not.

He's supposed to be there. That's what Christmas is about and the point of the thread. I've no objection to all the trimmings, but don't forget the meaning. Just like Easter, the eggs take priority over another major Christian time of celebration. The are welcome to be there alongside it, but unless the feast is observed you might as well have Halloween eggs, or Walpurgis eggs, Midsommer eggs or Solstice pancakes.

so the way to pay homage to your Lord is to lick the back of his head once a year? He's not supposed to be on stamps, the queen is.

So why don't all Christmas cards have him on? Why no big fuss about that?

Fairy on your tree? Oooh False Idol, there's a commandment broken!

Has he been banned from the stamps? No. Any fuss last time he wasn't on them? No.

Is the Post Office a religious organisation? No. Why shouldn't it put what it wants on its stamps? No reason at all.

[TANGODANCER]

They can stick what they want on them for me. It's a postal service, get the fecking letters delivered on time, that's all I ask. If I wanted religion then I'd go to church, not the Post Office.

Fine, then just let them leave the Queen's head up there and don't try to cash in on the Christmas theme and ignore what it's about. Every toy seller and maker in the world is happy to make a bomb selling Christmas toys; fine, it's a time for kids, same with Easter eggs. Trouble is, the fringe products have overpowered the meanings. Don't expect everyone to agree, just stating my view as a Christian, based on Christian feast days. What do the post office call it when a letter turns up three days late; an act of God?

[communistworkethic]

They can stick what they want on them for me. It's a postal service, get the fecking letters delivered on time, that's all I ask. If I wanted religion then I'd go to church, not the Post Office.

Fine, then just let them leave the Queen's head up there and don't try to cash in on the Christmas theme and ignore what it's about. Every toy seller and maker in the world is happy to make a bomb selling Christmas toys; fine, it's a time for kids, same with Easter eggs. Trouble is, the fringe products have overpowered the meanings. Don't expect everyone to agree, just stating my view as a Christian, based on Christian feast days. What do the post office call it when a letter turns up three days late; an act of God?

using God for illustrative purposes is by no means and admission of belief in the existance of a supernatural supreme being. Einstein is famously quoted by the religious saying "God does not play dice" to suggest a belief in God, Yaweh or whatever, at no point did he mean a supreme being, Einstein had turned his back on Judaism long ago and used the term God in reference to the laws of Physics.

[warthog]

They can stick what they want on them for me. It's a postal service, get the fecking letters delivered on time, that's all I ask. If I wanted religion then I'd go to church, not the Post Office.

Fine, then just let them leave the Queen's head up there and don't try to cash in on the Christmas theme and ignore what it's about. Every toy seller and maker in the world is happy to make a bomb selling Christmas toys; fine, it's a time for kids, same with Easter eggs. Trouble is, the fringe products have overpowered the meanings. Don't expect everyone to agree, just stating my view as a Christian, based on Christian feast days. What do the post office call it when a letter turns up three days late; an act of God?

Having worked for the Royal Mail, I can assure you that that excuse has been used at times.

[TANGODANCER]

so the way to pay homage to your Lord is to lick the back of his head once a year? He's not supposed to be on stamps, the queen is.

Then why call them Christmas stamps?. Why not Lizzie mas?

So why don't all Christmas cards have him on? Why no big fuss about that?

A lot do, they don't just cut him out of his own celebrated birthday like the Royal Mail have made a point of doing

Fairy on your tree? Oooh False Idol, there's a commandment broken!

It's an angel

Has he been banned from the stamps? No. Any fuss last time he wasn't on them? No.

Seems so this year. That's what this is all about.

Is the Post Office a religious organisation? No. Why shouldn't it put what it wants on its stamps? No reason at all.

Except they call them Christmas issue stamps. Why bother? Why cut the Christ out of Christmas? He isn't asking for a share of the profits.

[communistworkethic]

But Christmas does not mean christ for everyone. The failure of Christianity to hold on to it's celebrations is it's own fault.

The post office has 4 stamps = 4 designs, not the almost infinte variation of greetings cards, you had your religious theme last year, this time they've used santa and reindeer.

All cards are not religious themed and not all stamps are, why is one ok to have variety but not the other. The PO is a commercial enterprise not a religious one.

The only person who has a right to appear on stamps IS the Queen and she is ALL of them.

I'll repeat the point, there have been other years with no religious theme on stamps and no fuss. Selective upset doesn't help the cause at all.

This is all just the Christians moaning after being given a kick by right-wing media because eastern religions haven't allowed this to happen to their celebrations and it's a nice easier bit of uproar to create - "political correctness gone mad!!!!!".

If you hadn't read it in the papers today would you seriously have even raised it as a topic? Be honest because I doubt you'd have even noticed.

[Little Green Man]

It's a bit harsh singling out the Royal Mail for the over-commercialisation of Christmas. At least they make the effort every other year.

What am I saying? The indolent fuggers still haven't got my Sheff U tickets to me.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

The Royal Mail are under no obligation to keep the dying Jesus myth alive.

For the majority, it's a mid-winter festival and nothing more. It seems entirely reasonable that the Royal Mail should represent this reality.

Would anyone here be particularly enthusiastic about using stamps with explicitly Islamic images during Ramadan?

[TANGODANCER]

The Royal Mail are under no obligation to keep the dying Jesus myth alive.

Christmas is about his birth

For the majority, it's a mid-winter festival and nothing more. It seems entirely reasonable that the Royal Mail should represent this reality.

Would anyone here be particularly enthusiastic about using stamps with explicitly Islamic images during Ramadan?

Why not? That's the whole point of each and every man/woman being allowed to celebrate their own beliefs alongside each other and in peace. Including Christians.

[communistworkethic]

and nobody is stopping you from celebrating how you want.

But to suggest a non-religious body should follow you in that is flawed.

I don't want to celebrate the holiday on a religious basis, why should I have to have stamps with it on again this year? You had your version last year, it's my turn. Why is that wrong

[TANGODANCER]

If you hadn't read it in the papers today would you seriously have even raised it as a topic? Be honest because I doubt you'd have even noticed.

Would we be discussing Diouf's latest misdemeanours if someone hadn't told us about them? That's what debating is about; someone raises an issue and the aye's and no's kick shit out of each other as to who's right or wrong. Such is life. Anything is acceptable as longs as you remeber to add "in my opinion" Passed a little time.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

The Royal Mail are under no obligation to keep the dying Jesus myth alive.

Christmas is about his birth

For the majority, it's a mid-winter festival and nothing more. It seems entirely reasonable that the Royal Mail should represent this reality.

Would anyone here be particularly enthusiastic about using stamps with explicitly Islamic images during Ramadan?

Why not? That's the whole point of each and every man/woman being allowed to celebrate their own beliefs alongside each other and in peace. Including Christians.

Is Christmas really about Jesus' birth anymore? Like it or not, it's been completely hijacked and for most people it is devoid of any religious significance. I appreciate that it is called 'CHRISTmas', but labels often become detached from their original meanings.

[Dujon]

No, TANGO, no.

I know from your previous writings that you are a devout Christian. NOTE: this is not a personal attack.

Christians in our society have no more right to special privileges (e.g. postage stamp images) than does any other faith. Certainly our societies (meaning yours and mine) were founded and continue to run on Christian principles - which are shared by others by the way - but, at least in current times, pride themselves on being secular. If what you are asking were extended to other religions (Islam, Judaism, the Rainbow Serpent) where would it all end? There's nothing wrong with a few reindeer and Santa Claus plus the odd robin and snowflake, surely?

Perhaps your tilt should be at the fact that the winter season is celebrated at all.

I've hidden my windmills just in case you decide to counter attack.

[communistworkethic]

Such is life. Anything is acceptable as longs as you remeber to add "in my opinion" Passed a little time.

But it's not is it? "IMO" is no excuse for racism, for example. And Religion hangs it's hat on that "well it's our opinion and we have a right to that as it's our religion no matter how odd" as an excuse for intolerance, hatred and war and so on.

[Bruce Rioja]

The Royal Mail are under no obligation to keep the dying Jesus myth alive.

Christmas is about his birth

It's a bloody stamp, a numismatic token, it's simply confirmation that the sender has coughed up the appropriate sum for their letter (or whatever) to get from where they are to where they want it to be. That's all, that's it, capiche!!!

[TANGODANCER]

and nobody is stopping you from celebrating how you want.

But to suggest a non-religious body should follow you in that is flawed.

What, there are no Christian postal workers out there. Well, I'll be... And here's me thinking the Queen went to church on Christmas Day.

I don't want to celebrate the holiday on a religious basis, why should I have to have stamps with it on again this year? You had your version last year, it's my turn. Why is that wrong

Like I said at the start: It's Christmas. Xmas is just a denial of it. All in my opinion of course.