Red or white poppies?

[thebish]

dujon

best example of a Christian symbol being hi-jacked - the swastika

A Hindu, Buddhist and Jain symbol, but not Christian to my knowledge. Your point is just as valid though.

Mmm - but I think Commie has Christians on the brain....

neither the poppy (red or white) nor the swastika were/are Christian symbols...

[communistworkethic]

I was going off NatWest's public statement on why it has swastika mosaic tiles in the entrance to one of it's branches in Bolton. Just goes to show, never believe anything NatWest tell you


Ok Christian symbol Hi-jacked - The Cross by the Ku Klux Klan

[TANGODANCER]

Most of the politically correct brigade are probably too young to know what a world war and its effect on countries actually mean. Either that or their parents didn't actually become involved is some way (unlikely) or are dead. Give them six months on ration books, no petrol, little food, fear of being bombed out of their homes and constant fear for the men away fighting and being killed, and they may take a different view than worrying about changing a colour to suit their narrow-minded desire for recognition as world-changers. These people make me sick.

[50sQuiff]

Most of the politically correct brigade are probably too young to know what a world war and its effect on countries actually mean. Either that or their parents didn't actually become involved is some way (unlikely) or are dead. Give them six months on ration books, no petrol, little food, fear of being bombed out of their homes and constant fear for the men away fighting and being killed, and they may take a different view than worrying about changing a colour to suit their narrow-minded desire for recognition as world-changers. These people make me sick.

If the cause is as gravely important as you say (which it undoubtedly is) what on earth makes you so aggravated about a mere symbol? How can a white poppy be so disrespectul to the extent that it makes you sick?

Where do you stand on flag-burning?

[thebish]

I always wear a red poppy - but if someone wants to wear a white one - I'm not going to throw my toys out of the pram..

I think the white-poppy symbolism is misplaced and misunderstands what the poppy is actually about - but I know people who wear white poppies and they are not disrespectful, and they are not arrogant - so I choose to live and let live..

Poppies are a way of raising money - to help service and ex-service families (short hand for lots of things) - BUT - if the passion of those who seem to want to defend the red poppy to the death at Remembrance was there through the rest of the year...

then ex-service families would not now be living in poverty because we wold have persuaded successive govts to offer them the support they deserve, rather than have to rely on charity...

I shall be leading cenotaph services this year in the freezing cold - as I always do - I trust you will all be toddling down to your local cenotaph or war memorial tomorrow (or in many places on the Sunday)... and then you'll maybe write to your MP to express your disgust at the way ex-service families have been (and are being) treated over the decades...

(rant over)

[TANGODANCER]

Most of the politically correct brigade are probably too young to know what a world war and its effect on countries actually mean. Either that or their parents didn't actually become involved is some way (unlikely) or are dead. Give them six months on ration books, no petrol, little food, fear of being bombed out of their homes and constant fear for the men away fighting and being killed, and they may take a different view than worrying about changing a colour to suit their narrow-minded desire for recognition as world-changers. These people make me sick.

If the cause is as gravely important as you say (which it undoubtedly is) what on earth makes you so aggravated about a mere symbol? How can a white poppy be so disrespectul to the extent that it makes you sick?

Where do you stand on flag-burning?

Would I ever burn my country's flag? Never, under any circumstances whatsoever. I might happily burn a few people who live under it though. They make me sick because of wanting to change a tradition meant to honour and respect. Did you read my former posts. Why? is my question.

[Raven]

I was going off NatWest's public statement on why it has swastika mosaic tiles in the entrance to one of it's branches in Bolton. Just goes to show, never believe anything NatWest tell you


Ok Christian symbol Hi-jacked - The Cross by the Ku Klux Klan

Yes but didn't the cross first come from Norse/Egyptian mythology?

Andway back to the poppies and I will get a red one, white one are an insult there is a time and a place for anti war protesting and pacificism but THIS IS NOT IT and insulting and not likely to get your cause any friends. I will also do the silence thing, even if out somewhere.

[communistworkethic]

I was going off NatWest's public statement on why it has swastika mosaic tiles in the entrance to one of it's branches in Bolton. Just goes to show, never believe anything NatWest tell you


Ok Christian symbol Hi-jacked - The Cross by the Ku Klux Klan

Yes but didn't the cross first come from Norse/Egyptian mythology?

Er not in the Christian context it didn't. Maybe you've heard of this chap Jesus who was put to death on a cross according to the teachings of Christianity. I believe it's this specific event that derives their use of teh cross symbol.


Swastikas are used in Norse and Egyptian iconography.

[David Lee's Hair]

I was going off NatWest's public statement on why it has swastika mosaic tiles in the entrance to one of it's branches in Bolton. Just goes to show, never believe anything NatWest tell you


Ok Christian symbol Hi-jacked - The Cross by the Ku Klux Klan

Yes but didn't the cross first come from Norse/Egyptian mythology?

Er not in the Christian context it didn't. Maybe you've heard of this chap Jesus who was put to death on a cross according to the teachings of Christianity. I believe it's this specific event that derives their use of teh cross symbol.


Swastikas are used in Norse and Egyptian iconography.

And Hindu

[Raven]

Sod my memory, the tree of life is Celtic and didn't the Norse gods nail Baldur (or someone) to a tree long before the Romans were at it

[thebish]

Er not in the Christian context it didn't. Maybe you've heard of this chap Jesus who was put to death on a cross according to the teachings of Christianity. I believe it's this specific event that derives their use of teh cross symbol.

indeed - but (interestingly) - the cross wasn't used by christians as an important symbol for many years..

earliest christian art (Roman catacombs) used allegorical symbols - most frequently Christ as a shepherd and the raising of Lazarus - and they quite liked to draw Jonah and the whale (allegorical link - 3 days in whale-belly = three days in tomb)

the fish-sign, of course, was much more widely used - but not the cross because it was such a symbol of shame and degradation. It didn't start to appear in christian art until after the first millenium.

(to get a feel for the shockingness of it - using the cross as a symbol is a bit like using the electric chair* as your logo...)


* not the stannah-stair-lift kind

[Raven]

Wrong Norse god and no time left, this site is interesting though

http://www.askwhy.co.uk/christianity/0515Cross.html

[InsaneApache]

The fish is the oldest sign for Christians IIRC it was to signify the fishing for souls. The swastica comes from sanskrit....even older than Hinduism. The ayrians were supposed to originate in northern India. They don't live too far away these days. Iran.

[thebish]

Maybe you've heard of this chap Jesus who was put to death on a cross according to the teachings of Christianity.

and a certain rock-solid, ultimate authority called Josephus, I believe...

[Bruce Rioja]

So now even a thread ahead of Remembrance Day is being turned into one about God bothering, ffs?!

[thebish]

The fish is the oldest sign for Christians IIRC it was to signify the fishing for souls.

no it wasn't. it was a nemonic (sp?) - the greek words for "Jesus Christ Son of God Saviour" - spelled out the word fish... it was a secret symbol in times of persecution to say - christians safe here... (a place to seek refuge)

So now even a thread ahead of Remembrance Day is being turned into one about God bothering, ffs?!

Mmm - twas commie what started it, sir, with his Nat West swastika nonsense.... he's got Christians on the brain, I tell you!

so - what do you think about poppies Bruce??

[Bruce Rioja]

so - what do you think about poppies Bruce??

I wear my poppy with pride. Both of my grandfathers went to great lengths to explain to me their significance as a boy and it's something I always remember. I'll even wear it to golf on Sunday morning (read into that what you will).
As mentioned earlier, the red poppy isn't just some arbitrary symbol, it has a direct correlation with the battlefields of the First World War (my Great-Grandfather died at Ypres), I'd like to show my appreciation and donate to Haig Fund at the same time. It doesn't mean that I'm pro war, it just means that I'm grateful, but that doesn't mean that I therefore feel a need to visit a cenotaph.
In the free society that our forfathers secured there is of course freedom of expression, but there is also a time and a place.
Sunday is a day for remembrance, not one for point-scoring.

[David Lee's Hair]

so - what do you think about poppies Bruce??

I wear my poppy with pride. Both of my grandfathers went to great lengths to explain to me their significance as a boy and it's something I always remember. I'll even wear it to golf on Sunday morning (read into that what you will).
As mentioned earlier, the red poppy isn't just some arbitrary symbol, it has a direct correlation with the battlefields of the First World War (my Great-Grandfather died at Ypres), I'd like to show my appreciation and donate to Haig Fund at the same time. It doesn't mean that I'm pro war, it just means that I'm grateful.
In the free society that our forfathers secured there is of course freedom of expression, but there is also a time and a place.
Sunday is a day for remembrance, not one for point-scoring.

Well said Bruce

[InsaneApache]

mnemonic...there is that better?

Thanks for the Greek memory aid, you learn summat new everyday. It also says in the link posted that the fish represents a vulva. I'll bet the Pope didn't pick that one.

[Raven]

Whats the Pope got against big boxy Swedish cars?

Oh sorry thought you put Volvo


I already have me coat, thanks