Champions League Final

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If I wanted to sneak a mate into Anfield or any other ground in the UK it would be impossible, it just would not happen.

If anyone wanted to sneak a mate in to the stadium yesterday it was a piece of piss. To be honest I'm surprised at coming back here and reading stories on websites like f365 and others who claim that they failed to get in with blag tickets, or who tried to sneak in and couldn't get there. The organisation was that incompetent that anyone who had any piece of paper with a Champions League or Athens logo on was getting through. As I said, I wasn't rushing gates or smacking coppers or anything, because there just frankly wasn't any need to (not that I ever would, because I'm a big pussy and don't fancy taking on a guy with a shield and a baton, thank you very much).

I just knew the two lads behind me and my mate (who both had legitimate tickets having been to plenty of Euro games this season) who did not have tickets. I was getting in on my legitimate ticket, and these lads were trying to get through with us. If at any of the 6 checkpoints someone actually asked people for a ticket or bothered to use their UV lights that they had, or basically had any f*cking idea, then none of the counterfeit tickets would have got through, including these two lads that I knew. How can you get into a ground without any ticket? Is there anywhere else in English/European football where you can get within a view of the pitch without a single piece of paper? That is the joke I am highlighting here. My 'assistance' was walking through with a ticket, and due to the absolute shambles of a set-up that they had, probably only one in about 5 people were actually stopped and checked. My ticket was ripped at I think the 4th or 5th point, but was never checked with a UV light. This is why you not only have guys who got in with counterfeits or nothing at all, but also dozens (that I have come across with, which, extrapolated, probably means hundreds or possible into a thousand) with legitimate tickets that did not get checked at all, UV lighted or torn.

[blurred]

I still dont get why so many flew over without tickets 'for the atmosphere'....is it worth the £100+ to savour what you could easily of got in Liverpool (or most other) City Centres last night? Worth the risk? Worth f*cking over a load of your own fans who were, admittedly lucky, but legitimately got tickets? I couldn't of gone into a ground knowing i had stopped someone with a legitimate ticket getting in.

£100? Most people were spending £250-£350 minimum to get out there, and some more than that.

[Dr.Karl]

I think Blurred's point is that non ticket holders shouldn't have got into the ground in the first place, which is perfectly valid. But I agree some blame has to be taken by the Liverpool supporters as well as the authorities at the ground.

And yet he helped two mates do it? Bit of a contradictory view isn't it? Maybe, just maybe, the Greeks were expecting basically honest fans to turn up and not hordes without tickets.

No it isn't, the fact is the authorities shouldn't have allowed them to get past the first stage nevermind up to the fifth stage. He isn't being contradictory in his post, all he has said is that authorities should have been much better. I think he would have expected the police and stewards to have stopped his mates, and it strengthens his point that they didn't stopped till the last stage.

You make an absolutely ridiculous point about "honest" fans, it belies the point of having tickets in the first place. Its the whole fecking point really, you don't get in without tickets!

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I still dont get why so many flew over without tickets 'for the atmosphere'....is it worth the £100+ to savour what you could easily of got in Liverpool (or most other) City Centres last night? Worth the risk? Worth f*cking over a load of your own fans who were, admittedly lucky, but legitimately got tickets? I couldn't of gone into a ground knowing i had stopped someone with a legitimate ticket getting in.

£100? Most people were spending £250-£350 minimum to get out there, and some more than that.

Does that weaken or strengthen Dibble's point, Blurred?

[blurred]

I think Blurred's point is that non ticket holders shouldn't have got into the ground in the first place, which is perfectly valid. But I agree some blame has to be taken by the Liverpool supporters as well as the authorities at the ground.

Is what I'm driving at. Of course there is some blame to be laid at our feet, and I've said that in one of my posts on here that some of the scenes witnessed by our fans are just not right. Some of the stuff I've seen on the TV since I got back of people rushing and charging through the gates looks horrible, and I do not condone that in the slightest. But as others have said on here, when you're desperate to see a game people will try counterfeit tickets, or trying to gain entry through nefarious means. The fact that so so many people were successful yesterday shows, in my mind, that the place was not fit for purpose.

I intend to write up a full description/eye-witness report on Greece, partly for posterity but also to let people know what it was we were faced with. Perhaps a fuller understanding will come from that as to what was going on.

[CrazyHorse]

So, in other words....it's acceptable to try and break the rules (if not the law) and if you're successful it's the authorities fault for not stopping you in the first place.

[blurred]

I still dont get why so many flew over without tickets 'for the atmosphere'....is it worth the £100+ to savour what you could easily of got in Liverpool (or most other) City Centres last night? Worth the risk? Worth f*cking over a load of your own fans who were, admittedly lucky, but legitimately got tickets? I couldn't of gone into a ground knowing i had stopped someone with a legitimate ticket getting in.

£100? Most people were spending £250-£350 minimum to get out there, and some more than that.

Does that weaken or strengthen Dibble's point, Blurred?

It was more a clarification of the prices people were paying. Those of us on the chartered daytrips were paying circa £500 for the pleasure, some more.

Well there are two sets of people who go 'for the atmosphere'. One is the sort who just want to be out in the city, perhaps pick up a spare, but otherwise mingle, see the sights, drink the beer and sing the songs. The others are those who will try by hook or by crook to get into the stadium.

Why do they do it? Because it's the European Cup Final, the biggest game in club football in the world. I'm fortunate to have done 2 in 3 years, now, and that's great. If I was unsuccessful at getting a ticket I'd've still gone over for a little holiday and to join in the songs in the main square in town, drink some local ale and see the sights of Athens (and maybe try and bunk in/pick up a spare ticket ).

[TANGODANCER]

I think Blurred's point is that non ticket holders shouldn't have got into the ground in the first place, which is perfectly valid. But I agree some blame has to be taken by the Liverpool supporters as well as the authorities at the ground.

And yet he helped two mates do it? Bit of a contradictory view isn't it? Maybe, just maybe, the Greeks were expecting basically honest fans to turn up and not hordes without tickets.

No it isn't, the fact is the authorities shouldn't have allowed them to get past the first stage nevermind up to the fifth stage. He isn't being contradictory in his post, all he has said is that authorities should have been much better. I think he would have expected the police and stewards to have stopped his mates, and it strengthens his point that they didn't stopped till the last stage.

You make an absolutely ridiculous point about "honest" fans, it belies the point of having tickets in the first place. Its the whole fecking point really, you don't get in without tickets!

I'll take you up on that one. "ridiculous point" because the Greeks might not have expected people to "bunk in"(to use Blurred's term) and line up to get into a stadium knowing full well they had no tickets. If we don't do it over here, why suddenly think it's okay just because it's a foreign country? I agree those with tickets may have valid complaints about handling, but I'll guarantee half or more of those that dodged in will be complaining with the rest. That's the joke about it all.

[Leyther_Matt]

the Greeks might not have expected people to "bunk in"(to use Blurred's term) and line up to get into a stadium knowing full well they had no tickets. If we don't do it over here, why suddenly think it's okay just because it's a foreign country? I agree those with tickets may have valid complaints about handling, but I'll guarantee half or more of those that dodged in will be complaining with the rest. That's the joke about it all.

The sad thing is, Liverpool fans (and they aren't the only ones) do try and bunk in over here as well, by whatever means possible.

[TANGODANCER]

the Greeks might not have expected people to "bunk in"(to use Blurred's term) and line up to get into a stadium knowing full well they had no tickets. If we don't do it over here, why suddenly think it's okay just because it's a foreign country? I agree those with tickets may have valid complaints about handling, but I'll guarantee half or more of those that dodged in will be complaining with the rest. That's the joke about it all.

The sad thing is, Liverpool fans (and they aren't the only ones) do try and bunk in over here as well, by whatever means possible.

Then they shouldn't be blaming it all on the Greeks. Cause and effect. The genuine fans who pay I can sympathise with. The rest....?

[Dr.Karl]

I'll take you up on that one. "ridiculous point" because the Greeks might not have expected people to "bunk in"(to use Blurred's term) and line up to get into a stadium knowing full well they had no tickets. If we don't do it over here, why suddenly think it's okay just because it's a foreign country? I agree those with tickets may have valid complaints about handling, but I'll guarantee half or more of those that dodged in will be complaining with the rest. That's the joke about it all.

The Greeks are fecking idiots if they didn't expect fans to try to get in with counterfeit tickets for the biggest game in club football. We don't do it over here because of the importance and demand of say Liverpool vs Charlton isn't that big, really. And at other big events such as Glastonbury, although I haven't been, lots of people try to get into with fake tickets.

I don't think those that got in will be complaining, more belittling the security at the ground, which is perfectly valid. It worked in their favour on this occassion but at most football grounds and event in this country you wouldn't get away with it. I'm not condoning their behaviour, but if I was in their position and had the same opportunity I would have probably tried to blag myself in. It ain't right but in that situation its understandable and fair enough it led to fans with tickets not being able to get into the ground, which means they have to take some blame for what happened.

The fact is the authorities should have been prepared for all this, its that simple.

This guy has right imv:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 687433.stm

[blurred]

I'll box both of these points together as they are of a similar nature, at least in part.

the Greeks might not have expected people to "bunk in"(to use Blurred's term) and line up to get into a stadium knowing full well they had no tickets

why was the stadium not fit to hold football matches ? it was done up for the olympics , looked pretty good .. ac milan played there against a greek side recently .. just because the place was not able to cope with thousand of part timers being there in the hope of getting in isnt really its fault - its more the part time peoples , the people wont learn though , so what can you do ..

They should expect in the region of 20,000 people to be turning up, and be able to easily and quickly distinguish those who had valid tickets and those who had counterfeit ones (or none at all), something which happens at every major football ground throughout Europe week in and week out, and over a much shorter timescale. How many fans get into the Stretford end between 2pm and 3pm every other Saturday? Or St James' Park? Or Celtic Park?

People were trying to get into the ground from up to 2 or 3 hours before kick off, and yet they were completely unable to cope. We started our process of trying to get in to the ground approximately 2 hours before kick off, and it took at least an hour to get in. It was simply not designed to allow people to enter in this fashion (requiring segregation, etc, which is not pre-requisite of an athletics event, like the Olympics). That is why the stadium and policing and security was a f*cking joke, and why the ground and its staffing was not suitable to be hosting a major football match, let alone a game as big as this.

[Gertie]

The one thing I really don't understand, if someone could explain I'm just a bit naive really??

How can a club like such as Liverpool who have witnessed first hand the death and devestation that overcrowding of football fans in a stadium can bring, who have campaigned tirelessly for justice for those who have died and to bring charges against organisations who were negligent

Sooo how could they even condone any of their fans even attempting to get in without a ticket, which could lead to overcrowding, which could lead to people getting hurt or even their fellow fans not getting in at all.

I really don't follow how it was the Greek's fault for letting them through. They should not have even attempted it if the tragic deaths of those fans at Hillsbrough meant anything to them at all. The responsibility lies with the indvidual who knowingly tried to put others at risk.

Here endeth my tuppence worth

[blurred]

It is a very valid point, Gertie, and one that has been made at games in the past where problems have occurred (notably this season PSV away in the quarter finals where there was similar unorganised chaos causing crushes at the turnstiles). I despise the the hypocrisy of people who wear 'Justice' stickers who charge the gates and cause crushes. Attempting to sneak in in ones and twos through open doors or whatever is a fact of life, people deliberately causing incidents (or doing little to stop them when they occur) should be f*cked off for good. We have an element to our support that I find bordering on horrific at times.

[officer_dibble]

http://www.football365.com/mailbox/stor ... 69,00.html
plenty more stuff on there

It does sound like a crackpot operation to be honest.

I can't ever see me, or fellow bwfc fans ever being in that position to be honest, if we made a cup final on that scale we would probably get enough tickets to cover the truly hardcore and most others who failed would watch it in a bar even if they had gone over to soak up the atmosphere.

I am of the opinion that both sides are to blame I think, but the actions of what sounds like an enormous number of liverpool fans once again leaves a lot to be desired.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I can't ever see me, or fellow bwfc fans ever being in that position to be honest, if we made a cup final on that scale we would probably get enough tickets to cover the truly hardcore

League Cup Final?

[Tombwfc]

It is a very valid point, Gertie, and one that has been made at games in the past where problems have occurred (notably this season PSV away in the quarter finals where there was similar unorganised chaos causing crushes at the turnstiles). I despise the the hypocrisy of people who wear 'Justice' stickers who charge the gates and cause crushes. Attempting to sneak in in ones and twos through open doors or whatever is a fact of life, people deliberately causing incidents (or doing little to stop them when they occur) should be f*cked off for good. We have an element to our support that I find bordering on horrific at times.

But by sneaking in in ones and twos, that also carries the potential to cause a disaster when the stand overfills.

The Greeks are fecking idiots if they didn't expect fans to try to get in with counterfeit tickets for the biggest game in club football.

They seemed to manage alreet with the Italians round the other side of the ground.

[Dr.Karl]

It is a very valid point, Gertie, and one that has been made at games in the past where problems have occurred (notably this season PSV away in the quarter finals where there was similar unorganised chaos causing crushes at the turnstiles). I despise the the hypocrisy of people who wear 'Justice' stickers who charge the gates and cause crushes. Attempting to sneak in in ones and twos through open doors or whatever is a fact of life, people deliberately causing incidents (or doing little to stop them when they occur) should be f*cked off for good. We have an element to our support that I find bordering on horrific at times.

But by sneaking in in ones and twos, that also carries the potential to cause a disaster when the stand overfills.

The Greeks are fecking idiots if they didn't expect fans to try to get in with counterfeit tickets for the biggest game in club football.

They seemed to manage alreet with the Italians round the other side of the ground.

That's not the point though is it? How many Milan fans carried counterfeit tickets? Not many. The set up around the stadium should have been good enough to deal with the number of counterfeit tickets available and should have filtered those fans with those tickets. Yes Pool fans should take some of the blame for carrying those tickets but I can understand why they would do it, but they shouldn't have got into the stadium in the first place if the security checks were good enough.

I have no sympathy for those that charged gates, with that there is a strong chance of people getting in with force. The actions of those fans was deplorable and should be condemned. With counterfeit tickets, they shouldn't have any chance of getting in.

[H. Pedersen]

What we need to know here is whether or not the same thing happened to Milan's fans. If there was a low instance of counterfeiting, crushes, and legitimate ticket holders being turned away, then we know exactly where the blame is to be laid.

[CrazyHorse]

I have no sympathy for those that charged gates, with that there is a strong chance of people getting in with force. The actions of those fans was deplorable and should be condemned. With counterfeit tickets, they shouldn't have any chance of getting in.

I agree with you. My gripe is the fact the Liverpool fans turned round today and blamed the police, UEFA, the Greeks, the bastard stadium designers, Roger the cabin boy, Captain bloody Birdseye, Suzie fecking Quatro and Uncle Tom Cobley and all.

They refuse to accept any responsibilty for entering the stadium without the proper tickets. And they're wrong for that.