Ashley Cole gets Mascherano sent off.

[Worthy4England]

Strange, we have a zillion threads decrying the poor standard of refereeing in the EPL, and also a thread saying the referees deserve more respect from the players. I'd say the referees should get their own shit together before they start whining about the words directed their way. People in glass houses and all that.

Bollocks - there's poor refs at Rugby - we still manage to call 'em Sir when in earshot....

Maybe the refs should be able to balance things out by being able to say to the players things like "He made a right f*cking t*at of you there wiht that nutmeg" etc. etc.

[Harry Genshaw]

I don't buy the argument that referees in the Prem are poor. Just because mistakes are more evident now with the greater scrutiny, they still get far more right than they get wrong. I've lost count of the number of times I've seen panellists/experts arguing over a decision after viewing a replay several times over.

For every 50/50 decision, one party is going to be disappointed with how the ref sees it.

[Zulus Thousand of em]

I heard another old chestnut being rolled out by so-called pundit Alan Smith this weekend - and how shite is he, by the way?

Apparently some striker could not be offside as "there was no daylight showing". Another made-up, in your imagination, bollocks rule from Andy Gray and co!

These guys get paid a lot of money to provide informed comment - and yet most of them have, at best, only a nodding acquaintance with the Laws of the Game.

Rant over - for now.

Poor man's Mike Riley signing out.

[Lord Kangana]

I heard another old chestnut being rolled out by so-called pundit Alan Smith this weekend - and how shite is he, by the way?

Apparently some striker could not be offside as "there was no daylight showing". Another made-up, in your imagination, bollocks rule from Andy Gray and co!

These guys get paid a lot of money to provide informed comment - and yet most of them have, at best, only a nodding acquaintance with the Laws of the Game.

Rant over - for now.

Poor man's Mike Riley signing out.

Destitute?

[Zulus Thousand of em]

Destitute?

Not far off.

[fatshaft]

I heard another old chestnut being rolled out by so-called pundit Alan Smith this weekend - and how shite is he, by the way?

Apparently some striker could not be offside as "there was no daylight showing". Another made-up, in your imagination, bollocks rule from Andy Gray and co!

I believe that Mr GRay was responsible for that particular rule amendment.

I don't buy the argument that referees in the Prem are poor. Just because mistakes are more evident now with the greater scrutiny, they still get far more right than they get wrong.

Don;t agree. I watch a lot of EPL, and SPL, and La Liga. The English refs are a long long way behind either of those leagues. England used to have the likes of Durkin, for example, but just last year I was ridiculed for saying on here that Howard Webb was a good ref. Well he is the best ref in England at present, so what does that tell us?

[blurred]

The only way I can see Bennett justifying that second yellow would be for persistent infringement, really. Mascherano wasn't agressive or appearing to be particularly petulant or dissenting, however if Bennett said that he'd been chirping at him a few times previously and repeatedly dissenting then that could've been acceptable. If he books him solely on the basis of that incident, then he has to book every player that questions a decision, and he didn't. Mascherano was still daft to question him, though, already having been booked, which is why Alonso (I think) tried to hold him back. His reaction afterwards was ridiculous, though, and not necessary. I'm sure he'll get the extended ban from the FA, too (or at least a charge of failing to leave the pitch).

Bennett is just an incompetent arsehole, however - he sent off Alonso at Arsenal a couple of years ago despite not seeing the incident (Alonso slipped over while turning and took out an Arsenal player completely by accident), and then amazingly upheld his decision after reviewing it on the video after. He hates his authority being questioned, which is a bad trait for a referee... If they want respect, they have to earn it too.

[Zulus Thousand of em]

The only way I can see Bennett justifying that second yellow would be for persistent infringement, really. Mascherano wasn't agressive or appearing to be particularly petulant or dissenting, however if Bennett said that he'd been chirping at him a few times previously and repeatedly dissenting then that could've been acceptable.

Petulance is not a bookable offence. Dissent is a bookable offence. If you think that a player can run for twenty-five yards to harangue a referee about an incident in which said player was completely uninvolved and not appear to be "particularly dissenting" then our views and values differ considerably.

Having said that, persistent infringement was also an option for Bennett. I guess he was spoiled for choice at the end of the day.

I have two regrets. One, that referees do not use the powers they have more often and two, that Sky TV will not sack Andy Gray for total incompetence and a complete disregard or ignorance of the Laws of the Game.

[blurred]

Petulance is not a bookable offence. Dissent is a bookable offence. If you think that a player can run for twenty-five yards to harangue a referee about an incident in which said player was completely uninvolved and not appear to be "particularly dissenting" then our views and values differ considerably.

I am aware that petulance is not a bookable offence, I was pointing out that had he behaved differently (aggressive, petulant, etc) then it would make a much clearer/better case to say that he's being dissenting, and thus worthy of a yellow card.

And if asking 'why?' a couple of times is 'haranguing' a referee, then our views and definitions differ considerably, and there'd be yellow cards in every game for dissent.

[Zulus Thousand of em]

Is that all he did, Blurred? Really?

[TANGODANCER]

Petulance is not a bookable offence. Dissent is a bookable offence. If you think that a player can run for twenty-five yards to harangue a referee about an incident in which said player was completely uninvolved and not appear to be "particularly dissenting" then our views and values differ considerably.

I am aware that petulance is not a bookable offence, I was pointing out that had he behaved differently (aggressive, petulant, etc) then it would make a much clearer/better case to say that he's being dissenting, and thus worthy of a yellow card.

And if asking 'why?' a couple of times is 'haranguing' a referee, then our views and definitions differ considerably, and there'd be yellow cards in every game for dissent.

Hope you ain't moaning at cards Blurred. We collect them every week. We're saving up for a free football with a picture of Rafa on it.

[blurred]

Is that all he did, Blurred? Really?

I'm sorry, I agree. It was quite heinous and vicious haranguing of the referee, despicable conduct, as these photos go to show:



Or

[Lord Kangana]

Different times.

And lets be honest, if your using that shower form down the road as a defence, might I suggest you change your counsel?

[CrazyHorse]

Aye. Using a ten year old picture of some United players crowding a ref has justified what Mascherano did on Sunday. Well done on sucessfully proving zulu wrong there.

[blurred]

Different times.

And lets be honest, if your using that shower form down the road as a defence, might I suggest you change your counsel?

I'm just wanting to see what Zulu would call that instance if Mascherano was 'haranguing' the ref, and showing what real dissent looks like.

A player should have the right to question a ref, and the referee should give that answer. The repetitious 'go aways' that they issue to players wanting clarification on decisions is, in my view, incredibly poor refereeing. Why not just tell Mascherano 'I booked your mate because he said 'x' and 'y' which was dissent', or 'Yes it was a foul from Rio but not sufficient for a yellow card in my opinion' depending on what Mascherano was asking for. I know the events are years apart, but they're also worlds apart where Mascherano gets a booking and the United players (largely) didn't.

Yes, it was daft, yes we could all see a potential yellow card a mile off and that's why Alonso tried to hold him back, but his conduct around the referee was nothing compared to the abuse they receive every game at other decisions, and if he was sending him off purely for asking him 'why?' a couple of times then he'd've had to have carded just about every player on the park on Sunday, which he didn't. If he was booked for complaining about a decision, then every time a player went down and didn't get something they whinged to the referee about it - why not book them, too? Ferdinand must've been in Bennett's face a good few times on Sunday yet didn't receive a card, and Mascherano did? Incompetent refereeing, in my view, and lamentably preventable on both sides. They were both idiots.

[David Lee's Hair]

Wouldn't have happened if

a) it was at Anfield,
b) if the Cole thing hadn't happened.

However I completely agree with the yellow (sorry blurred). The fact he ran to the ref and questioned his decision is dissent. Perhaps that's me being a private school egg chaser in a different life but it just doesn't happen there and the sooner it stops in football the better imho

[blurred]

Wouldn't have happened if

a) it was at Anfield,
b) if the Cole thing hadn't happened.

However I completely agree with the yellow (sorry blurred). The fact he ran to the ref and questioned his decision is dissent. Perhaps that's me being a private school egg chaser in a different life but it just doesn't happen there and the sooner it stops in football the better imho

I'll add a c) to that and say 'if Bennett hadn't been fourth official for the Cole thing and been given a pasting by Keith Hackett about it'.

It's difficult to say exactly what Mascherano was saying to the referee, but far more overt displays of dissent are seen up and down the country each week when referees give penalties - goalkeepers/defenders crowd around him and it usually takes a minute or two for the crowd to dissipate and the kick to be taken. What Mascherano did was not in that league, nor anywhere near the charming Mancs example from a few years back posted above, which is not to say that it shouldn't be a yellow card.

The FA are big on 'respect' for referees - in my opinion they still need to 'earn' respect, and treat players with it in return. Be firm and try and get rid of this by all means, but this has to be done consistently, and Bennett wasn't even close to doing that. Bennett's flashing of the yellow card was as petulant as Mascherano's questioning of him - I think they're both guilty of poor decision making, personally, only it'll cost Liverpool more than it costs Bennett.

If they bring in this 'only the captain speaks to the ref' rule then fine - at least we'll all know where we stand, and with all referees. At the moment it's a ridiculous grey area.

[David Lee's Hair]

I'll add a c) to that and say 'if Bennett hadn't been fourth official for the Cole thing and been given a pasting by Keith Hackett about it'.

Didn't know Bennet was tbh, but yep that would have had a massive bearing on his decision.

If they bring in this 'only the captain speaks to the ref' rule then fine - at least we'll all know where we stand, and with all referees. At the moment it's a ridiculous grey area

Also imho it needs to be brought in, and should have been brought in years ago, and should include managers as well. No names mentioned.... *cough* red nose *cough*

[Worthy4England]

Why does this not surprise me. Mascherano was probably unlucky in that he was probably the only person this happened to in the Prem this weekend even though it had heightened focus.

I don't agree that a Ref should "earn" respect. They're in charge of the fair running of the game and that should be that. I'm personally fed up with players (Bolton's included) treating them like arseholes. How does this "earn respect" work? First Prem game they get, it's ok to call em a bag of bollocks because their respect rating is low? I had no problems with the sending off, but I agree it needs to be consistent. Bennett's "flashing of a second yellow" was petulant how? Mascherano had been F'ing at him all game. He then compounded this by running in to have another word for something that quite frankly was feck all to do with him.

I don't think the Law is a grey area either. I just don't think it's consistently applied. You could probably do at least half of any Prem Team with yellow cards in any given 45 minute spell.

[blurred]

I don't agree that a Ref should "earn" respect. They're in charge of the fair running of the game and that should be that. I'm personally fed up with players (Bolton's included) treating them like arseholes. How does this "earn respect" work? First Prem game they get, it's ok to call em a bag of bollocks because their respect rating is low?

No, but you can clearly see (and have been able to for years) the refs that are 'better' because they realise the players are human beings and fallible, yet know where to draw the line and discipline them as necessary. It's the old 'common sense' thing. Some of the attitudes of 'go away, I'm right and you're wrong' exist in too many refs at the top level, and unsurprisingly those that are and were more personable and approachable had more respect from the players on the pitch and thus had less trouble than the likes of Bennett.