Britains Got Talent...

[General Mannerheim]

i watched it on sky+, the only act i rewinded to watch again was Signature, they were quality, i was gutted they didnt win, and I felt it was a bit of rip off that George won it with exactly the same act he performed in the semi, where as everyone else did a different routine. Also, i thought it was Britains got talent, not Britains biggest sob story! all that bullshit in his vt before his act; 'not only will it change my life, it will save my life'... piss off. and yeah, escalla were better than him too.

[Tals-biggest-fan]

i watched it on sky+, the only act i rewinded to watch again was Signature, the were quality, i was gutted they didnt win. felt it was a bit of rip off that george won it with exactly the same act he performed in the semi, where everyone else did a different routine. also, i thought it was briatins got talent, not britains biggest sob story! all that bullshit in his vt before his act; 'not only will it change my life, it will save my life'... piss off. and yeah, escalla were better than him to.

that would be the female voters for you!

[communistworkethic]

sexist

[TANGODANCER]

Saw a couple of the Nancy auditions and thought it was nailed on for the Irish girl. Just goes to show.

[communistworkethic]

which one? Cos it sure wasn't the ginger one any week, she was behind at least 3 others for pretty much the whole series.

[TANGODANCER]

which one? Cos it sure wasn't the ginger one any week, she was behind at least 3 others for pretty much the whole series.

Was quite early in the series because I didn't watch it after that till I saw the winner on the News.

[communistworkethic]

she was never the strongest candidate, her voice was not strong enough in any respect.

THE performance of the series for me was Samantha's version of "Defying gravity", almost made me want to go watch the musical "Wicked".

[TANGODANCER]

Nothing will surpass Lionel Barts musical film for me, with Shani Wallace as Nancy, Ron Moody as Fagin, Harry Seacombe as Bumble and Olly Reed as Sykes.

Must say though, in the earlier non-musical film, Robert Newton was a staggeringly good Bill Sykes.

[CAPSLOCK]

she was never the strongest candidate, her voice was not strong enough in any respect.

THE performance of the series for me was Samantha's version of "Defying gravity", almost made me want to go watch the musical "Wicked".

That one, and

Jessies track that I dunno the name of - Man That Got Away?

and Fatties Whitney one

Oh aye, Rachels last song too....Cabaret?

Superb show

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

she was never the strongest candidate, her voice was not strong enough in any respect.

THE performance of the series for me was Samantha's version of "Defying gravity", almost made me want to go watch the musical "Wicked".

That one, and

Jessies track that I dunno the name of - Man That Got Away?

and Fatties Whitney one

Oh aye, Rachels last song too....Cabaret?

Superb show

Well, I wouldn't have had you down for a Nancy fan, Caps.

I watched quite a lot of it, but saw none of BGT - we get BBC 1&2 out here, but no ITV.

For me, Samantha had everything that a West End performer needs (can't believe she's only 17), but perhaps didn't look like she'd been around the block enough times to play Nancy (so such problems for Jodie). Did you watch the Maria show last year? It was the same then - Siobhan was awesome (though not as talented as Samantha), but not Maria. I went to go and see the Sound of Music in the end, and Connie does a good job. I'll probably go and see Oliver at some point - it will be interesting to Rowan Atkinson play Fagin if nothing else...

Just one more thing... could we really have had a black Oliver or Nancy... or both?!

Or a Nancy played with an Irish accent?

[TANGODANCER]

Just one more thing... could we really have had a black Oliver or Nancy... or both?! Or a Nancy played with an Irish accent?

Interesting. See this is a point worthy of comment (I won't call it a problem as that could be misconstrued). In Dickensian London it was probably feasible to maybe imagine an Irish girl in the Nancy role, but a black girl I'm much less sure of. Same applies for the role of Oliver. I'm all for the way today is, and something written today could well have any nationality in such roles, but we are talking of Victorian London here. There were few black citizen numbers of any real note in England until the Jamaican arrivals in the nineteen-fifties. From the backgounds, and also from book illustrations of the period, I'm sure Dickens envisaged no such thing or he would have stressed it.

Some years ago they made a film of Bizet's Carmen, set not in Spain, but modern-day America, and called it Carmen Jones. The bullfight was replaced by the boxing ring and it had a primarily black cast and worked fine. The story of Oliver in a modern setting could also have quite some flexibilty in its casting, but not, I think, the period one.

A lot of films made today, creditably, use the right sort of actors for the part. An example of awful casting was the Hornblower film I saw this weekend where a brown-dyed guy with a terrible accent played a Spaniard. Today, we'd use a Spaniard or whatever nationality the part calls for. In terms of reality reconstruction, the story and the period should be respected. Nancy was a prostitute with a good heart, something that could well be played by any race in a modern drama, but for Oliver and its period, I think they should respect Dickens. Others may well have different views although there's nothing much controversial about the topic for me. .

[Worthy4England]

Just one more thing... could we really have had a black Oliver or Nancy... or both?! Or a Nancy played with an Irish accent?

Interesting. See this is a point worthy of comment (I won't call it a problem as that could be misconstrued). In Dickensian London it was probably feasible to maybe imagine an Irish girl in the Nancy role, but a black girl I'm much less sure of. Same applies for the role of Oliver. I'm all for the way today is, and something written today could well have any nationality in such roles, but we are talking of Victorian London here. There were few black citizen numbers of any real note in England until the Jamaican arrivals in the nineteen-fifties. From the backgounds, and also from book illustrations of the period, I'm sure Dickens envisaged no such thing or he would have stressed it.

Some years ago they made a film of Bizet's Carmen, set not in Spain, but modern-day America, and called it Carmen Jones. The bullfight was replaced by the boxing ring and it had a primarily black cast and worked fine. The story of Oliver in a modern setting could also have quite some flexibilty in its casting, but not, I think, the period one.

A lot of films made today, creditably, use the right sort of actors for the part. An example of awful casting was the Hornblower film I saw this weekend where a brown-died guy with a terrible accent played a Spaniard. Today, we'd use a Spaniard or whatever nationality the part calls for. In terms of reality reconstruction, the story and the period should be respected. Nancy was a prostitute with a good heart, something that could well be played by any race in a modern drama, but for Oliver and its period, I think they should respect Dickens. Others may well have different views although there's nothing much controversial about the topic for me. .

I think the story would work fine with either...after all they're not looking for a real hooker to play Nancy...

[TANGODANCER]

Lawrence Olivier, great actor though he was, would probably never be chosen to play Othello today, simply because Othello was a Moor and there are too many fine black actors around who would do it just as well. All depends on what the play/film calls for.

[CAPSLOCK]

she was never the strongest candidate, her voice was not strong enough in any respect.

THE performance of the series for me was Samantha's version of "Defying gravity", almost made me want to go watch the musical "Wicked".

That one, and

Jessies track that I dunno the name of - Man That Got Away?

and Fatties Whitney one

Oh aye, Rachels last song too....Cabaret?

Superb show

Well, I wouldn't have had you down for a Nancy fan, Caps.

I watched quite a lot of it, but saw none of BGT - we get BBC 1&2 out here, but no ITV.

For me, Samantha had everything that a West End performer needs (can't believe she's only 17), but perhaps didn't look like she'd been around the block enough times to play Nancy (so such problems for Jodie). Did you watch the Maria show last year? It was the same then - Siobhan was awesome (though not as talented as Samantha), but not Maria. I went to go and see the Sound of Music in the end, and Connie does a good job. I'll probably go and see Oliver at some point - it will be interesting to Rowan Atkinson play Fagin if nothing else...

Just one more thing... could we really have had a black Oliver or Nancy... or both?!

Or a Nancy played with an Irish accent?

All class me, I am

[Worthy4England]

Lawrence Olivier, great actor though he was, would probably never be chosen to play Othello today, simply because Othello was a Moor and there are too many fine black actors around who would do it just as well. All depends on what the play/film calls for.

I hear you, but the point is he did play Othello as did many other non-black actors without ever detracting much from the storyline. I can't see a huge issue with it working the other way around, for me it wouldn't detract from the story..

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Agree with all of that Tango - it's just not feasible in a 'straight' production of OT, in my opinion.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Lawrence Olivier, great actor though he was, would probably never be chosen to play Othello today, simply because Othello was a Moor and there are too many fine black actors around who would do it just as well. All depends on what the play/film calls for.

I hear you, but the point is he did play Othello as did many other non-black actors without ever detracting much from the storyline. I can't see a huge issue with it working the other way around, for me it wouldn't detract from the story..

Are you joking?

It's fairly easy to make a white man look black! Bloody hell, I think it would detract from the story ever so slightly if you just had a white bloke playing Othello with no make-up on!

[Worthy4England]

Lawrence Olivier, great actor though he was, would probably never be chosen to play Othello today, simply because Othello was a Moor and there are too many fine black actors around who would do it just as well. All depends on what the play/film calls for.

I hear you, but the point is he did play Othello as did many other non-black actors without ever detracting much from the storyline. I can't see a huge issue with it working the other way around, for me it wouldn't detract from the story..

Are you joking?

It's fairly easy to make a white man look black! Bloody hell, I think it would detract from the story ever so slightly if you just had a white bloke playing Othello with no make-up on!

Patrick Stewart played the part as a white man. It changed the dialogue how? I'm sure your imagination could cope with it.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Patrick Stewart played the part as a white man. It changed the dialogue how? I'm sure your imagination could cope with it.

Well, intrigued, I just looked into this, and, to 'make this work', every other actor on the set was black, in what was described as a 'photo negative' version of the play! http://digilander.libero.it/patrickthebest/int8.htm

Hardly a 'straight' production, wouldn't you say? As Tango so helpfully illustrated, experimental and revisionist productions often work very well, but there are some productions in which it is not a good thing to have elements the imagination has to 'cope' with.

[Worthy4England]

Patrick Stewart played the part as a white man. It changed the dialogue how? I'm sure your imagination could cope with it.

Well, intrigued, I just looked into this, and, to 'make this work', every other actor on the set was black, in what was described as a 'photo negative' version of the play! http://digilander.libero.it/patrickthebest/int8.htm

Hardly a 'straight' production, wouldn't you say? As Tango so helpfully illustrated, experimental and revisionist productions often work very well, but there are some productions in which it is not a good thing to have elements the imagination has to 'cope' with.

Given that the play was accredited to be written in the early 1600's, I suspect for a large number of years, it was cast with a "white" actor in the lead role. The RSC would appear to agree with this contention. There is an interesting discussion on the topic here:

http://www.rsc.org.uk/othello/learning/othello.html

The point is that because you have gotten used to good coloured actors playing the role, that you can't now envisage a good non-coloured person playing the part, yet for most of the its life, it's probably been the other way round, and yet as a dramatic work, it managed to stand the test of time. How so, if it isn't feasible?