The Politics Thread

[superjohnmcginlay]

So.... Obama is in. After fluffing his lines when swearing the oath, and then delivering a speech without a single memorable moment, all the time his twin teleprompter arrangement making him look like he was following a tennis match.....

....perhaps he is already trying to manage expectation.

A speech full of common sense and staightforward ideas brilliantly delivered. What a disaster that was?

Mind you probably liked George I.Q. of a 1 year old Bush.

To quote the great Dylan "the times they are a changin"

Conservatism is dying!

Bachelors degree from Yale and MBA from Harvard? Hardly a fooking moron. There just seemed to be summat missing between his brain and his mouth.

[superjohnmcginlay]

I wonder if Colonel Washington had athiest leanings?

The declaration of independence and the constitution of the US is one of the most uplfting and enlightened proclaimation in history. If not the most.

Dunno but I reckon Lincoln was a satanist. Evil looking fella.

[BWFC_Insane]

So.... Obama is in. After fluffing his lines when swearing the oath, and then delivering a speech without a single memorable moment, all the time his twin teleprompter arrangement making him look like he was following a tennis match.....

....perhaps he is already trying to manage expectation.

A speech full of common sense and staightforward ideas brilliantly delivered. What a disaster that was?

Mind you probably liked George I.Q. of a 1 year old Bush.

To quote the great Dylan "the times they are a changin"

Conservatism is dying!

Bachelors degree from Yale and MBA from Harvard? Hardly a fooking moron. There just seemed to be summat missing between his brain and his mouth.

Wonder how much that lot cost his dad?

[superjohnmcginlay]

So.... Obama is in. After fluffing his lines when swearing the oath, and then delivering a speech without a single memorable moment, all the time his twin teleprompter arrangement making him look like he was following a tennis match.....

....perhaps he is already trying to manage expectation.

A speech full of common sense and staightforward ideas brilliantly delivered. What a disaster that was?

Mind you probably liked George I.Q. of a 1 year old Bush.

To quote the great Dylan "the times they are a changin"

Conservatism is dying!

Bachelors degree from Yale and MBA from Harvard? Hardly a fooking moron. There just seemed to be summat missing between his brain and his mouth.

Wonder how much that lot cost his dad?

Quite a lot I would have thought. Costs a fortune to send someone to college in America.

[Puskas]

I wonder if Colonel Washington had athiest leanings?

The declaration of independence and the constitution of the US is one of the most uplfting and enlightened proclaimation in history. If not the most.

You have a point. Although I think it was Jefferson who had deist leanings.

I could, of course be wrong.

I was thinking about modern times - you're not likely to see a non-theist President at the moment for some time.

[warthog]

You could not make this up. On the day the nation was convulsed by the row over the building of the third runway at Heathrow, the government slipped into parliament one of the most self-serving pieces of legislation in modern times.

Harriet Harman, the leader of the house, got Jack Straw, the justice secretary, to table a parliamentary order that will exempt all MPs and peers from having to release detailed expenses under the Freedom of Information Act.

The order, which will come into force 24 hours after being debated next week in parliament, will stop in its tracks all the victories won by campaigners and journalists to bring full transparency to individual MPs' expenditure on travel, equipping their second or constituency homes, staffing, office details and individual travel receipts by air, rail and car.

The timing is extraordinary. The parliamentary authorities were poised to release a mindboggling 1.2m pieces of papers detailing three years' individual expenses after a two-year battle covering all but the Sinn Féin MPs. The public had already had a foretaste of what was come last year when a limited release of expenditure for a small number of MPs revealed lots of detail - from the £1,920 pergola and plants ordered by Margaret Beckett for her constituency home to Barbara Follett, the wife of the successful author, Ken Follett, and Labour MP for Stevenage claiming £1,600 for cleaning the windows of her London home.

Now none of this will become public, and all existing FOI requests will be blocked. There is an alternative disclosure scheme planned but it will not provide the detail. And the public suspicion of MPs will grow. Everyone will think their elected representatives have something to hide.

As the tribunal ruling that backed openness said: "The laxity of and lack of clarity in the rules for ACA (additional costs allowance for second homes) is redolent of a culture very different from that which exists in the commercial sphere or in most other public sector organisations today. In our judgment these features, coupled with the very limited nature of the checks, constitute a recipe for confusion, inconsistency and the risk of misuse."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/blog ... eofcommons

Remember all this when you vote sometime these next 12 months. I will. I don't care who the sitting MP is, I won't be voting for any incumbent regardless of political affiliation. I suggest everyone does the same and throw these money grasping bastards out. All of them.

The vote is tomorrow. Three line whip from the government. I guess this means me deliberately spoiling my ballot paper in the next election again.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7841702.stm

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Alright fellas, at ease, I'm only messing.

The speech flew, but did not soar, as they say... though it could scarcely fail to disappoint, such was the build-up. And yes, the mistake with the oath was really Chief Justice Roberts'.

Good chance that at some point they'll have had one or more Presidents who don't believe in a God of course.

Not for a few years, yet. At least not one who'll admit to it...

Not for a long long time one who'll admit it but in 44 there's a decent chance at least 1 has just lied about their faith I reckon.

What makes you say that given his lifelong association with churches and, ahem, pastors? (Although I accept that there is a community element to that that an atheist might not easily be able to avoid.)

[a1]

Bachelors degree from Yale and MBA from Harvard? Hardly a fooking moron. There just seemed to be summat missing between his brain and his mouth.

on the plus side all these current affairs comedies cant/dont want to think of any jokes and skits about their man - and'll probably get cancelled.

"oh man, i've just thought of a joke about george bush being 'tarded. i think ive just jizzed"

boring shite that needs to get funny.

one pretty harmless skit could be -

barrack's talking to some people and the only words he says are "hope and change" but the people around him understand him like he's speaking proper english. (kinda like them marklar aliens on south park)

at one point he could point to his crotch says "hope and change" and a male journalist sucks him off as if its synonymous with "give me a blow job".

that might actually happen in real life though.

[Montreal Wanderer]

So.... Obama is in. After fluffing his lines when swearing the oath, and then delivering a speech without a single memorable moment, all the time his twin teleprompter arrangement making him look like he was following a tennis match.....

....perhaps he is already trying to manage expectation.

While I grant the line fluffing, PB, I though the speech was okay. Only two speeches in US history have had enduring quotes (Roosevelt in 1933 and Kennedy in 1961). Obama's delivery is excellent and his message was consistent with his campaign. He had the guts to include atheists as Americans which was a step forward. He clearly said that simply because America had the might to do something, it did not necessarily have the right. Immediately thereafter he put the military tribunals on hold in Cuba as his first act. I don't think we should be too hard on him - though, yes, he has to manage expectation because the country is in a real mess and it will take time to recover.

Edit: posted this before I saw your "messing" post, PB.

[Verbal]

Government backs down over the proposed bill to exempt Members of Parliament from having their individual expenses published.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7842402.stm

gooood.

[Athers]

What makes you say that given his lifelong association with churches and, ahem, pastors? (Although I accept that there is a community element to that that an atheist might not easily be able to avoid.)

Didn't say that Obama is or isn't anything.. Sure I read that even Lincoln might've been, and maybe Clinton actually. But it's often just conjecture to name names, I'm going by the odds.

Britain will certainly have an openly atheist PM before they have an openly atheist President, and when that day comes Mummy, I hope you remember us all.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

What makes you say that given his lifelong association with churches and, ahem, pastors? (Although I accept that there is a community element to that that an atheist might not easily be able to avoid.)

Didn't say that Obama is or isn't anything.. Sure I read that even Lincoln might've been, and maybe Clinton actually. But it's often just conjecture to name names, I'm going by the odds.

Sorry, completely misread what you wrote.

I read it as "in 44 (i.e. Obama - you see, I'm used to the idea of the Bushes being called '41' and '43' within their own family!) we might just have someone who has lied etc.."

[Montreal Wanderer]

Dunno about you Mummy (and anyone else) but I really wasn't comfortable with the (very conservative) pastor's long prayer and all the talk of God at the inauguration, but then it's America and not my country.

Good chance that at some point they'll have had one or more Presidents who don't believe in a God of course.

Rick Warren is a creationist who worked against California's same sex marriage law through proposition 8. Obama's choice for the inaugural invocation here was pretty controversial. He got round it to some extent by asking New Hampshire's gay bishop, Gene Robinson, to give the kick-off prayer at the Lincoln Memorial. I wasn't really comfortable either with that performance. I also found Aretha's hat a little startling!

[Hoboh]

Alright fellas, at ease, I'm only messing.

The speech flew, but did not soar, as they say... though it could scarcely fail to disappoint, such was the build-up. And yes, the mistake with the oath was really Chief Justice Roberts'.

Good chance that at some point they'll have had one or more Presidents who don't believe in a God of course.

Not for a few years, yet. At least not one who'll admit to it...

Not for a long long time one who'll admit it but in 44 there's a decent chance at least 1 has just lied about their faith I reckon.

What makes you say that given his lifelong association with churches and, ahem, pastors? (Although I accept that there is a community element to that that an atheist might not easily be able to avoid.)

Thats what really puts me off the Yankee politicians all this connecting theirselves with God!
To me a mans religion is private between himself and whatever God he worships, a Politician represents or leads everyone and should hold whatever believes in in private.
After all in a democarcy the vote is open to all but how can a muslim vote for an openly Christian President even if happens to like the guy without feeling he has failed in his faith?

[TANGODANCER]

Thats what really puts me off the Yankee politicians all this connecting theirselves with God!
To me a mans religion is private between himself and whatever God he worships, a Politician represents or leads everyone and should hold whatever believes in in private.
After all in a democarcy the vote is open to all but how can a muslim vote for an openly Christian President even if happens to like the guy without feeling he has failed in his faith?

I should imagine most level-headed people, particularly those who care about politics, are capable of seperating the two. As for feeling he has failed in his faith, that's a rare assumption to make when talking a bout a country's leader who isnt banging his religion down anyone's thoats. Our local MP is an Indian and probably supports a different faith then me. I never asked him and he never told me; reason being it's immaterial in what he does if not in either of our private lives.

It has never been a secret that Obama is a Chritian and God believer. It should matter as little as his colour as long as he's a decent person and good at what he does, surely?

[Hoboh]

Thats what really puts me off the Yankee politicians all this connecting theirselves with God!
To me a mans religion is private between himself and whatever God he worships, a Politician represents or leads everyone and should hold whatever believes in in private.
After all in a democarcy the vote is open to all but how can a muslim vote for an openly Christian President even if happens to like the guy without feeling he has failed in his faith?

I should imagine most level-headed people, particularly those who care about politics, are capable of seperating the two. As for feeling he has failed in his faith, that's a rare assumption to make when talking a bout a country's leader who isnt banging his religion down anyone's thoats. Our local MP is an Indian and probably supports a different faith then me. I never asked him and he never told me; reason being it's immaterial in what he does if not in either of our private lives.

It has never been a secret that Obama is a Chritian and God believer. It should matter as little as his colour as long as he's a decent person and good at what he does, surely?

What I am trying to say is good as the man or his policies may be there will be people who feel they just cannot vote or trust him because of the religion connection and that IMO is detremental to democarcy. It should be policy and policy only or party line that gets voted on NOT that he attends church and holds religous beleifs

[InsaneApache]

I see another opposition MP has been threatened by plod.

[TANGODANCER]

What I am trying to say is good as the man or his policies may be there will be people who feel they just cannot vote or trust him because of the religion connection and that IMO is detremental to democarcy. It should be policy and policy only or party line that gets voted on NOT that he attends church and holds religous beleifs

I find that a somewhat staggering statement in its nievity and purely a massive assumtion on your part. I'll just refer you to my last answer. "The USA has existed for a long time and a lot of presidents with the sentiments "God Bless America" and the dollar bill heading "In God we trust". It never mattered or impacted on politics before, why should it now? People belive what they believe and to deny them the right to do that, whatever it may be, is hypocritical IMO. Religion is never forced on anyone and neither should atheism be. The people of America have just voted for the best man to do the job, colour, creed or lack of it immaterial.

[Hoboh]

What I am trying to say is good as the man or his policies may be there will be people who feel they just cannot vote or trust him because of the religion connection and that IMO is detremental to democarcy. It should be policy and policy only or party line that gets voted on NOT that he attends church and holds religous beleifs

I find that a somewhat staggering statement in its nievity and purely a massive assumtion on your part. I'll just refer you to my last answer. "The USA has existed for a long time and a lot of presidents with the sentiments "God Bless America" and the dollar bill heading "In God we trust". It never mattered or impacted on politics before, why should it now? People belive what they believe and to deny them the right to do that, whatever it may be, is hypocritical IMO. Religion is never forced on anyone and neither should atheism be. The people of America have just voted for the best man to do the job, colour, creed or lack of it immaterial.

No one is denying anyone the right to believe or follow what ever God he chooses (BTW in the US this tends to be the dollar and not because of what is written on it). All I'm saying is religion should be totally detached from politics. The Yanks make a big play on religion "In God we trust" etc etc but lets dig deep then if you think they are a Christian God fearing country. Was it the will and with the blessing of God they are the only nation in history to drop not one, but two atomic bombs? No that was politics!!! Religion had no part except maybe weasel words of self pity trying to pray to God for what they were about to do.
Religion IS forced on people, How about the kids indoctrinated into Christian/Muslim etc beliefs from the day they are born? Do they have any choice?
Do we hear human rights activists calling this an abuse of peoples freedoms and rights? (something again good old Christian uncle Sam chooses to ignore, human rights that is).
Sorry but I 'll say again religion is between one person and whatever God he follows and should not be allowed to be publicly pushed by the most powerful man on the planet!

Here endth the sermon

[InsaneApache]

What I am trying to say is good as the man or his policies may be there will be people who feel they just cannot vote or trust him because of the religion connection and that IMO is detremental to democarcy. It should be policy and policy only or party line that gets voted on NOT that he attends church and holds religous beleifs

I find that a somewhat staggering statement in its nievity and purely a massive assumtion on your part. I'll just refer you to my last answer. "The USA has existed for a long time and a lot of presidents with the sentiments "God Bless America" and the dollar bill heading "In God we trust". It never mattered or impacted on politics before, why should it now? People belive what they believe and to deny them the right to do that, whatever it may be, is hypocritical IMO. Religion is never forced on anyone and neither should atheism be. The people of America have just voted for the best man to do the job, colour, creed or lack of it immaterial.

IIRC was only put on in 1954. America is a secular state. It's guaranteed in the constitution.