If you could suspend democracy for one day....

[Worthy4England]

Hey-up, Prescott's spoke.

I've just read that apparently the most laughable politician ever (TM) reckons that Sir Fred shouldn't receive the pension to which he holds legal entitlement and should persue his claim through the courts at further expense to the tax-payer instead.

Has the fat prick ever once managed to pass comment on anything without making a complete and utter cock-end of himself?

Yes, saw this on Newsnight - he was on with a lawyer and it wasn't a fair fight

His comments though do require some "context". He said that had the government not stepped in and rescued the bank, it would have gone into bankruptcy and had it done so, Sir Fred would only have got around 1/30th (maybe) of his entitlement - which other than the legal angle of "well it didn't go into bankruptcy" is a fair(ish) point, without me disagreeing with the fundamental principle that a Contract should be honoured.

[lovethesmellofnapalm]

None of the above...

give him the rest of his days on a state pension... let him 'adjust'...

Punishment to fit the crime... This bunch have destroyed thousands of lives, and thousands more to come... let them live like them...

I know - just call me a bleeding heart liberal...

Spot on. Next week we play in Stoke for the first time since 1979 in the top division the year Thatcher came to power. I work in Stoke now (i know ) and have seen at first hand how the move to a "service economy" affected communities like the Potteries. The utter destruction of a manufacturing base, people thrown on the scrapheap and their families condemned to two or three generations of low pay or welfare dependence. And 29 years later the cycle repeats itself. The good times didnt really apply for Stoke (or Bolton ftm) they were the province of the Square Mile and the South East.The current recession has already cost this community through no fault of their own in terms of productivity i may add jobs in two of the areas largest employers wedgwood and JCB. The knock on effect will see small businesses close and an ensuing rise in real poverty.


And yet we still have people who shrug their shoulders and say "a contract is a contract". Is the greed and mendacity of those entrusted with the nations finances to go unpunished while those who have to pay the cost suffer? Shoot every banker executive in any way responsible with the scams that have enriched so few and impoverished so many. Try in Peoples Courts hang every profiteer involved and abolish enearned private income over £150,000. Simple

[Worthy4England]

None of the above...

give him the rest of his days on a state pension... let him 'adjust'...

Punishment to fit the crime... This bunch have destroyed thousands of lives, and thousands more to come... let them live like them...

I know - just call me a bleeding heart liberal...

And yet we still have people who shrug their shoulders and say "a contract is a contract". Is the greed and mendacity of those entrusted with the nations finances to go unpunished while those who have to pay the cost suffer? Shoot every banker executive in any way responsible with the scams that have enriched so few and impoverished so many. Try in Peoples Courts hang every profiteer involved and abolish enearned private income over £150,000. Simple

A contract is indeed a contract. Maybe you are suggesting we should all work without one, so we can all be taken on and laid off at a moments notice? If that's not your intent, then a contract should be honoured by both parties.

As for abolishing private income over £150k, that's going to work really well.

[lovethesmellofnapalm]

None of the above...

give him the rest of his days on a state pension... let him 'adjust'...

Punishment to fit the crime... This bunch have destroyed thousands of lives, and thousands more to come... let them live like them...

I know - just call me a bleeding heart liberal...

And yet we still have people who shrug their shoulders and say "a contract is a contract". Is the greed and mendacity of those entrusted with the nations finances to go unpunished while those who have to pay the cost suffer? Shoot every banker executive in any way responsible with the scams that have enriched so few and impoverished so many. Try in Peoples Courts hang every profiteer involved and abolish enearned private income over £150,000. Simple

A contract is indeed a contract. Maybe you are suggesting we should all work without one, so we can all be taken on and laid off at a moments notice? 1If that's not your intent, then a contract should be honoured by both parties.

As for abolishing private income over £150k, that's going to work really well. 2:shock:

1. Which is essentially what happened to employees of Wedgwood in the last month.
2.Tongue was partly in cheek here- but the "greed is good" culture of the last 25 years should be curbed

[Worthy4England]

None of the above...

give him the rest of his days on a state pension... let him 'adjust'...

Punishment to fit the crime... This bunch have destroyed thousands of lives, and thousands more to come... let them live like them...

I know - just call me a bleeding heart liberal...

And yet we still have people who shrug their shoulders and say "a contract is a contract". Is the greed and mendacity of those entrusted with the nations finances to go unpunished while those who have to pay the cost suffer? Shoot every banker executive in any way responsible with the scams that have enriched so few and impoverished so many. Try in Peoples Courts hang every profiteer involved and abolish enearned private income over £150,000. Simple

A contract is indeed a contract. Maybe you are suggesting we should all work without one, so we can all be taken on and laid off at a moments notice? 1If that's not your intent, then a contract should be honoured by both parties.

As for abolishing private income over £150k, that's going to work really well. 2:shock:

1. Which is essentially what happened to employees of Wedgwood in the last month.
2.Tongue was partly in cheek here- but the "greed is good" culture of the last 25 years should be curbed

1. There's a difference between not honouring a contract, because you're bankrupt, and not honouring one because of a business decision when the business is doing well. Without a contract, businesses wouldn't need to be in administration to lay anyone off.

2. People often equate "high earnings" with greed, but if it's in line with and individuals contribution to a businesses profitability then I don't see the issue meself.

[lovethesmellofnapalm]

None of the above...

give him the rest of his days on a state pension... let him 'adjust'...

Punishment to fit the crime... This bunch have destroyed thousands of lives, and thousands more to come... let them live like them...

I know - just call me a bleeding heart liberal...

And yet we still have people who shrug their shoulders and say "a contract is a contract". Is the greed and mendacity of those entrusted with the nations finances to go unpunished while those who have to pay the cost suffer? Shoot every banker executive in any way responsible with the scams that have enriched so few and impoverished so many. Try in Peoples Courts hang every profiteer involved and abolish enearned private income over £150,000. Simple

A contract is indeed a contract. Maybe you are suggesting we should all work without one, so we can all be taken on and laid off at a moments notice? 1If that's not your intent, then a contract should be honoured by both parties.

As for abolishing private income over £150k, that's going to work really well. 2:shock:

1. Which is essentially what happened to employees of Wedgwood in the last month.
2.Tongue was partly in cheek here- but the "greed is good" culture of the last 25 years should be curbed

1. There's a difference between not honouring a contract, because you're bankrupt, and not honouring one because of a business decision when the business is doing well. Without a contract, businesses wouldn't need to be in administration to lay anyone off.

2. People often equate "high earnings" with greed, but if it's in line with and individuals contribution to a businesses profitability then I don't see the issue meself.

1. The banks are to all intents bankrupt. The Govt has just decided, in their usual look ater their own way, to bail them out with dollops of cash -(and before the "no alternative" argument is trotted out many economists both monetarist and Keynesian are questioning the Governments policy) however when, through no fault of their own, a top company like JCB struggles a bit its a different story. The top execs are looked after of course but the guy who's given 10-15 years graft- feck all but basic redundancy. Oh and as an aside how many of Mandys mates are going to be enriched beyond their wildest imagination by the Royal Mail sell-off?
2. and when the said profitability was a chimera based on ill conceived executive jiggery pokery and the "high earnings" designed to enrich beyond all recognition of ability or contribution its still justified - right?

[Worthy4England]

1. The banks are to all intents bankrupt. The Govt has just decided, in their usual look ater their own way, to bail them out with dollops of cash -(and before the "no alternative" argument is trotted out many economists both monetarist and Keynesian are questioning the Governments policy) however when, through no fault of their own, a top company like JCB struggles a bit its a different story. The top execs are looked after of course but the guy who's given 10-15 years graft- feck all but basic redundancy. Oh and as an aside how many of Mandys mates are going to be enriched beyond their wildest imagination by the Royal Mail sell-off?
2. and when the said profitability was a chimera based on ill conceived executive jiggery pokery and the "high earnings" designed to enrich beyond all recognition of ability or contribution its still justified - right?

1. I'm still waiting for the "many economists, both monetarist and Keynsian" to tell us what we should do, as opposed to what we shouldn't. Unfortunately, JCB having trouble or going bump, wouldn't have the same impact as letting all the bankrupt banks going bump - it's not comparable. What do we do about top exec's who have given 10-15 years of graft? You seem to be suggesting that only the "shop floor" graft? As for Mandy's enriched mates from RM sell-off you tell me how many are "Mandy's mates", RM sell off will probably be little different than any other privatisation over thelast 30 years.

2. You still seem here to be working on the broad assertion that no executives are worth what they're paid (not sure whether this is just directed at the banking industry or all business). So just for arguments sake, how much should a sales exec get paid for signing a £1.5bn contract, that's taken them 18 months to work through and negotiate, assuming that it delivers what was intended over its course? (and no I'm not a sales exec )

[Bruce Rioja]

None of the above...

give him the rest of his days on a state pension... let him 'adjust'...

Punishment to fit the crime... This bunch have destroyed thousands of lives, and thousands more to come... let them live like them...

I know - just call me a bleeding heart liberal...

Spot on. Next week we play in Stoke for the first time since 1979 in the top division the year Thatcher came to power. I work in Stoke now (i know ) and have seen at first hand how the move to a "service economy" affected communities like the Potteries. The utter destruction of a manufacturing base, people thrown on the scrapheap and their families condemned to two or three generations of low pay or welfare dependence. And 29 years later the cycle repeats itself. The good times didnt really apply for Stoke (or Bolton ftm) they were the province of the Square Mile and the South East.The current recession has already cost this community through no fault of their own in terms of productivity i may add jobs in two of the areas largest employers wedgwood and JCB. The knock on effect will see small businesses close and an ensuing rise in real poverty.


And yet we still have people who shrug their shoulders and say "a contract is a contract". Is the greed and mendacity of those entrusted with the nations finances to go unpunished while those who have to pay the cost suffer? Shoot every banker executive in any way responsible with the scams that have enriched so few and impoverished so many. Try in Peoples Courts hang every profiteer involved and abolish enearned private income over £150,000. Simple

Good God. You actually are a clueless cretin that looks for a blamepost for your own short-comings aren't you?

Sorry, how long is it since Labour have been in power? feck me!

[lovethesmellofnapalm]

None of the above...

give him the rest of his days on a state pension... let him 'adjust'...

Punishment to fit the crime... This bunch have destroyed thousands of lives, and thousands more to come... let them live like them...

I know - just call me a bleeding heart liberal...

Spot on. Next week we play in Stoke for the first time since 1979 in the top division the year Thatcher came to power. I work in Stoke now (i know ) and have seen at first hand how the move to a "service economy" affected communities like the Potteries. The utter destruction of a manufacturing base, people thrown on the scrapheap and their families condemned to two or three generations of low pay or welfare dependence. And 29 years later the cycle repeats itself. The good times didnt really apply for Stoke (or Bolton ftm) they were the province of the Square Mile and the South East.The current recession has already cost this community through no fault of their own in terms of productivity i may add jobs in two of the areas largest employers wedgwood and JCB. The knock on effect will see small businesses close and an ensuing rise in real poverty.


And yet we still have people who shrug their shoulders and say "a contract is a contract". Is the greed and mendacity of those entrusted with the nations finances to go unpunished while those who have to pay the cost suffer? Shoot every banker executive in any way responsible with the scams that have enriched so few and impoverished so many. Try in Peoples Courts hang every profiteer involved and abolish enearned private income over £150,000. Simple

Good God. You actually are a clueless cretin that looks for a blamepost for your own short-comings aren't you?

Sorry, how long is it since Labour have been in power? feck me!

Labour out did the Tories in their blind adherence to neo-liberal market economics. My post is no defence for New Labour. My short-comings? wtf do you mean by that?

[Worthy4England]

Labour out did the Tories in their blind adherence to neo-liberal market economics.

How?

[lovethesmellofnapalm]

1. The banks are to all intents bankrupt. The Govt has just decided, in their usual look ater their own way, to bail them out with dollops of cash -(and before the "no alternative" argument is trotted out many economists both monetarist and Keynesian are questioning the Governments policy) however when, through no fault of their own, a top company like JCB struggles a bit its a different story. The top execs are looked after of course but the guy who's given 10-15 years graft- feck all but basic redundancy. Oh and as an aside how many of Mandys mates are going to be enriched beyond their wildest imagination by the Royal Mail sell-off?
2. and when the said profitability was a chimera based on ill conceived executive jiggery pokery and the "high earnings" designed to enrich beyond all recognition of ability or contribution its still justified - right?

1. I'm still waiting for the "many economists, both monetarist and Keynsian" to tell us what we should do, as opposed to what we shouldn't. Unfortunately, JCB having trouble or going bump, wouldn't have the same impact as letting all the bankrupt banks going bump - it's not comparable. What do we do about top exec's who have given 10-15 years of graft? You seem to be suggesting that only the "shop floor" graft? As for Mandy's enriched mates from RM sell-off you tell me how many are "Mandy's mates", RM sell off will probably be little different than any other privatisation over thelast 30 years.

2. You still seem here to be working on the broad assertion that no executives are worth what they're paid (not sure whether this is just directed at the banking industry or all business). So just for arguments sake, how much should a sales exec get paid for signing a £1.5bn contract, that's taken them 18 months to work through and negotiate, assuming that it delivers what was intended over its course? (and no I'm not a sales exec )

Here's on view from a right-wing perspective
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/news ... glitz.html

His wage

[lovethesmellofnapalm]

Labour out did the Tories in their blind adherence to neo-liberal market economics.

How?

They expanded Conservative policy of privatisation.
They allowed through sticking to a neo-liberal policy of low taxes the gap between rich and poor to widen
They believed superstar bankers and financial wide-boys when they told them that the free market needed to be
loosely(de?) regulated
Lots more examples can be found of New Labour following Conservative policy on education,health, law and order.

[lovethesmellofnapalm]

None of the above...

give him the rest of his days on a state pension... let him 'adjust'...

Punishment to fit the crime... This bunch have destroyed thousands of lives, and thousands more to come... let them live like them...

I know - just call me a bleeding heart liberal...

Spot on. Next week we play in Stoke for the first time since 1979 in the top division the year Thatcher came to power. I work in Stoke now (i know ) and have seen at first hand how the move to a "service economy" affected communities like the Potteries. The utter destruction of a manufacturing base, people thrown on the scrapheap and their families condemned to two or three generations of low pay or welfare dependence. And 29 years later the cycle repeats itself. The good times didnt really apply for Stoke (or Bolton ftm) they were the province of the Square Mile and the South East.The current recession has already cost this community through no fault of their own in terms of productivity i may add jobs in two of the areas largest employers wedgwood and JCB. The knock on effect will see small businesses close and an ensuing rise in real poverty.


And yet we still have people who shrug their shoulders and say "a contract is a contract". Is the greed and mendacity of those entrusted with the nations finances to go unpunished while those who have to pay the cost suffer? Shoot every banker executive in any way responsible with the scams that have enriched so few and impoverished so many. Try in Peoples Courts hang every profiteer involved and abolish enearned private income over £150,000. Simple

Good God. You actually are a clueless cretin that looks for a blamepost for your own short-comings aren't you?

Sorry, how long is it since Labour have been in power? feck me!

Oh and btw- without getting in to "see who can pee the highest up the wall" sort of discourse with the likes of you- i'd stack my education,qualifications and experience against yours any day if you're incapable of inferring any sense of irony in my postings

[finlayson]

I love the fact how this one man is being blamed for the worldwide financial crisis!

Just step back and think for a moment.

How much do you reckon this guy has paid in tax over his working life?

I bet he has been paying at least 300k a year if we are going off his finishing salary.

Also why should the guy be refused a pension that was part of his contract? He wasn't sacked, he retired.

Everyone on here would keep it too if we were in his position.

[a1]

How much do you reckon this guy has paid in tax over his working life?

i dont see your point. he's paid tax so that's paid for his pension ? his pension subs are supposed to make his pension.

technically that is true of these 'bailed out' banks too.

they each made at least 3bn profit for the past X tens of years. the g'ment is just bailing them out with the banks's own taxed money.

the trouble is this collected tax gets spent on other things (thats what its for) the g'ment isnt suposed to keep it all 'til someone fecks up and then give it back to them (in bailouts) when they do.

Its been spent. thats the problem. it might not be that much of a problem now, but it'll cause some shit in the future if they dont sort it.

[Bruce Rioja]

Oh and btw- without getting in to "see who can pee the highest up the wall" sort of discourse with the likes of you- i'd stack my education,qualifications and experience against yours any day

In a "see who can pee the highest up the wall" contest?

[Hoboh]

Burn 'um all!!!

[bobo the clown]

I don't get it .... if I could suspend democracy for a day I'd take the opportunity to give more even longer power. What would the rush be then ?

I always thought this regarding the Genie & the 3 wishes .... Wish 1 "more wishes". Job done.


Regarding this guy, greedy and incompetent bastard that he is ... the contract is there. Watching Prescott, Harriett Harperson et al whinging on about it is a smokescreen for the fact that this week the Govt. has swept £35 billion losses under the carpet and allowed a further £30 billion to be set aside as it guarentees £350 billion of toxic debt.

If Lord Myners (how come LABOUR has so many non-elected Cabinet ministers ??) permitted this then either he was aware & so culpable and now lying through his teeth, or not aware & so imcompetent.

[Prufrock]

I don't get it .... if I could suspend democracy for a day I'd take the opportunity to give more even longer power. What would the rush be then ?

I always thought this regarding the Genie & the 3 wishes .... Wish 1 "more wishes". Job done.


Regarding this guy, greedy and incompetent bastard that he is ... the contract is there. Watching Prescott, Harriett Harperson et al whinging on about it is a smokescreen for the fact that this week the Govt. has swept £35 billion losses under the carpet and allowed a further £30 billion to be set aside as it guarentees £350 billion of toxic debt.

If Lord Myners (how come LABOUR has so many non-elected Cabinet ministers ??) permitted this then either he was aware & so culpable and now lying through his teeth, or not aware & so imcompetent.

So so so so so so so true. Though I always planned to do it as wish three, just in case the genie got pissed and claimed this put me in violation of an implied contract he was consequently tearing up.

Back to the pension man, whilst I do think his pension is ludicrous, and if he had a soul he should take a cut seeing as he played a large part in it going massively t*ts up, I find more confusing, that politicians are calling him morally bankrupt, and that if he had any decency he would give it back. Is this the same politicians who wanted to stop their expenses being made public? Feckers. If democracy was suspended for one, and only one day, they'd be first in the queue to be held accountable for what they actually needed.

I thought this was supposed to be a light hearted 'aren't the bankers wankers' thread, where we suggest things such as David Mitchell's brilliant solution (and one I still don't get just WHY wouldn't work) of, 'Type it back in. There's no actual stuff,nothing's caught fire or exploded or sunk or anything, it is just some wanker bankers making stupid bets with each other when they're drunk. It's just people jugling around with imaginary numbers and it's got out of hand because they're arseholes.'. However, if we are being serious, as much as I hate the fact this guy, who is partly responsible for so many people being in the sh*t , is walking away with a huge pension, you cannot start ripping up contracts because a mob says so. We should fecking well learn though, and put this unregulated free market sh*te to bed once and for all. Self regulation? What horseshit.

[Lord Kangana]

Anyway, I'd be suspending democracy, so the idea that a contract was binding is superfluous. We're heading over the financial precipice, an era in which we will udoubtedly pay higher taxes, money that is paying for, and will continue to pay, for the mistake of men like him. Turkey's voting for christmas doesn't have enough scope to encompass the idea that he shouldn't be publicly horse-whipped and dragged down deansgate (in every town that has one), along with the greased-palmed politicians who've encouraged this. They say we are merely borrowing the world from our children. We must hate them.