European and Local Elections

[William the White]

Anyways, I've spent the evening shouting at the telly. Fecking Nick Griffin, he makes my blood boil. But they're arent stupid. As I was shouting, my mother, who voted UKIP, turns and says "well you can see where they are coming from", when I replied, "what holocaust denial, then holocaust denial denial, then 'voluntary repatriation' of muslims, and the idea of complete racial segregation, and the description of Islam as, quote, "a wicked and vicious faith"?" , she was surprised. They manage to keep the nastiness out of their two minute TV interviews.

It's just an excuse for thick people in pubs to snort with rage at something, anything. Somebody else to blame for why their own lives are sh*t.

Often is, actually, someone else to blame - that's the problem for people with no power - they have no power... Lose your job at leyland DAF today - what exactly did you do to deserve it? who is to blame... well, in part, very rich and greedy people who get found out then get pensions worth each year a lifetime's earnings for the guys who only built vans, and didn't do nuffin to end up on some shit scrap heap living a shit life... that too hard to understand, Pru?

i mean, i'm on your side more often than not, but somehow some residual public school elitism injects itself into your brain and you swop thinking for the daily mail...

[Prufrock]

Indeed.

I'm sorry, there is no definitive evidence for that. The Nazis didn't definitely use him as a stooge or set him up, but they didn't definitely not do either.

Van der Lubbe was a committed anarchist, well known within that movement, which was still, at that time, a significant part of the european workers' movement... he hated the stalinists like poison, and the nazis even more, and what he viewed as a bourgeois regime certain to allow either to take power... he may have been terribly mistaken but he was a committed revolutionary of a different camp than bolshevism...

You will, Prufrock, as an Orwell fan, know 'Homage to catalonia' which offers a vision of anarchism a million miles from its hippy-dippy or madly violent craziness image of today...

Van der Lubbe also liked to present himself as a fall guy for things. By most accounts he was a lightbulb short of a picnic, so to speak. There are photographs of him setting several small fires all of which self extinguished, then there was the main fire which burnt the thing down, of which there are no photographs. It is possible Van der Lubbe wasn't the one who started it, and it is possible the Nazis were behind it. The first is almost implausible, the second improbable, though neither are impossible, which is my point.

chapter and verse please... very happy to read any links... this is a case that has interested me in the past... i feel the nazis and stalinists have conspired to villify a genuine revolutionary who hated them both...

as, indeed, I do... as an orwell fan...

Well it was certainly the case presented by my GCSE history books, though I deliberately said 'most accounts', not 'all accounts'. I'm not sure how presenting him as simple helps the Nazi cause, surely they'd want him to seem to seem a rational thinking evil commie? As with many such things in Nazi and Stalinist history, few things are clear cut due to the huge amounts of propoganda. I haven't been inferring either that Van der Lubbe was or wasn't responsible, just that it isn't clear cut either way.

[Prufrock]

Anyways, I've spent the evening shouting at the telly. Fecking Nick Griffin, he makes my blood boil. But they're arent stupid. As I was shouting, my mother, who voted UKIP, turns and says "well you can see where they are coming from", when I replied, "what holocaust denial, then holocaust denial denial, then 'voluntary repatriation' of muslims, and the idea of complete racial segregation, and the description of Islam as, quote, "a wicked and vicious faith"?" , she was surprised. They manage to keep the nastiness out of their two minute TV interviews.

It's just an excuse for thick people in pubs to snort with rage at something, anything. Somebody else to blame for why their own lives are sh*t.

Often is, actually, someone else to blame - that's the problem for people with no power - they have no power... Lose your job at leyland DAF today - what exactly did you do to deserve it? who is to blame... well, in part, very rich and greedy people who get found out then get pensions worth each year a lifetime's earnings for the guys who only built vans, and didn't do nuffin to end up on some shit scrap heap living a shit life... that too hard to understand, Pru?

i mean, i'm on your side more often than not, but somehow some residual public school elitism injects itself into your brain and you swop thinking for the daily mail...

I think you have inferred something I meant not to imply. Often there is somebody to blame, the very same very rich greedy people you mention. However it's easy to blame the different, and the unknown. Blame the immigrants, the poles, the pakis (sic).

[Lord Kangana]

And who would you want people to blame for their sh*t lives if you were rich and powerful? Would your power and wealth buy public opinion, control it?

[Prufrock]

And who would you want people to blame for their sh*t lives if you were rich and powerful? Would your power and wealth buy public opinion, control it?

As ever, Margaret Thatcher.

[TANGODANCER]

The level of intelligence on here is pleasingly high. It does sometimes surprise me though that the differing levels of intelligence in any area of society aren't taken more into account when assessing things. Blame and compensation are elements that have appeared in society to a staggering degree in recent years but again, the different levels of intellect have to be a factor. Take the people in your own street/road/avenue: How many levels of varying intelligence can you identify? It only takes two households out of twenty to register 10% of less than Mastermind brainpower. That's 10% of a voting ballot.

I'm also not sure how the holocaust being brought up with monotonous regularity, not as a historical lesson, but as if it happened yesterday, not almost seventy years ago, is something to keep throwing up into arguments. It was world wartime and a regime that has hopefully disappeared forever from our lives forever.No one who was alive then will ever forget the war or its events, especially the genocide, but if we keep using it as a pointer we'll be back apologising for the crusades again as if we were there or had any bearing whatsoever on anything. Let's talk about now and keep it sensible. I'll maintain what I said that I think the BNP voters haven't done it from any love of Nick Griffin's idiot policies but rather from fear and mistrust of governments they previously trusted and not knowing what or who to vote for.

And then there's that percentage of brainpower factor that operates to maintain the equalibrium..

[Prufrock]

The level of intelligence on here is pleasingly high. It does sometimes surprise me though that the differing levels of intelligence in any area of society aren't taken more into account when assessing things. Blame and compensation are elements that have appeared in society to a staggering degree in recent years but again, the different levels of intellect have to be a factor. Take the people in your own street/road/avenue: How many levels of varying intelligence can you identify? It only takes two households out of twenty to register 10% of less than Mastermind brainpower. That's 10% of a voting ballot.

I'm also not sure how the holocaust being brought up with monotonous regularity, not as a historical lesson, but as if it happened yesterday, not almost seventy years ago, is something to keep throwing up into arguments. It was world wartime and a regime that has hopefully disappeared forever from our lives forever.No one who was alive then will ever forget the war or its events, especially the genocide, but if we keep using it as a pointer we'll be back apologising for the crusades again as if we were there or had any bearing whatsoever on anything. Let's talk about now and keep it sensible. I'll maintain what I said that I think the BNP voters haven't done it from any love of Nick Griffin's idiot policies but rather from fear and mistrust of governments they previously trusted and not knowing what or who to vote for.

And then there's that percentage of brainpower factor that operates to maintain the equalibrium..

Because it's relevant, it always will be. Particularly when we are talking about a party with such strong similarities with the Nazis, and with members who openly admire the work of Adolf et al. The other BNP EMP, I forget his name, is part of a movement founded on Hitler's birthday. Nick Griffin was convicted of inciting racial hatred ten years ago for writing an article in which he called the Holocaust, the 'HoloHoax'. It doesn't really matter WHY people voted for him, and I'm sorry, disgust because the Telegraph are still reporting about an MP who claimed £2.90 for fish, chips and gravy when he only had fish and chips at £2.30 is no excuse for voting for that vile man, but what matters is that he is elected. It's all relevant because that man, and another like him, are going representing our country in Europe.

You make a good point about intelligence, though I wouldn't necessarily use that word. We are so apathetic in this country. 30% turnout, that's ludicrous. But life ain't actually all that bad. There's a lot of moaning and angry letters to the Mail, but seemingly it ain't all bad, in fact 70% of people are so contented they don't feel the need to trouble themselves with that trivial matter of how their country is run. Added to that there's people who vote based on hearsay. A guy who voted BNP was on the news yesterday eating in a cafe owned by a Cypriot, when asked on his thoughts on that he said 'It's Ok, he's a good guy'. WTF are you doing voting BNP then you twonk.

The one thing I will say for the BNP is they are not stupid. They manage to keep the nastiness out of the public eye, and are very good at spin. There are people out there voting for them who don't know the half of it.

You don't do the plumbing yourself coz you don't know enough about it, similarly electrics, or mechanics. Yet there's people voting who don't know what they are voting for. That worries me, and I don't know how you fix it.

[TANGODANCER]

The sole issue of immigrants isn't so much about any racial aspect as some would have us believe. It's about a control policy highlighted by the lack of housing, the ridiculous overworking of the health system, the amount of benefits handed out and the education system. Trying to get twenty eggs into a box meant for ten is utterly pointless. Either make bigger boxes or stop the hens laying. Don't blame the hens whatever.

Britain's problems are about this lack of control. People wouldn't highlight a hospital as being "full of Asians" if they didn't have to wait three hours for treatment. The blame lies in the system. Thereby hangs another tale: lack of policing and the crime elements that result from it. Again, to many eggs for the box. Again, poor control. Now, because of the recession and people losing their means of making a living, foreign workers take the blame for another cock-up situation. A land of milk and honey is fine when it's working, but not too dusty when the milk sours and the honey dries up. We live in a great country that is suddenly on a knife-edge because of pressures and tensions. When the government learn how to manage the country as efficiently as they do the Inland Revenue, maybe we'll get back on track. Meantime, applying some sort of control over the priority elements migh t make BNP style thinking redundant. Nothing succeeds like success.

[Hoboh]

I agree with a great deal of your argument - however the reichstag fire was not set by the nazis (though it was a welcome blessing for them), nor by the communists - van der Lubbe was an anarchist revolutionary naively trying to strike a blow against both totalitarians and give vent to his hostility to what he saw as a venal and repressive fake democracy...

He was wrong - but he wasn't a nazi stooge...

Indeed.

I'm sorry, there is no definitive evidence for that. The Nazis didn't definitely use him as a stooge or set him up, but they didn't definitely not do either.

Van der Lubbe was a committed anarchist, well known within that movement, which was still, at that time, a significant part of the european workers' movement... he hated the stalinists like poison, and the nazis even more, and what he viewed as a bourgeois regime certain to allow either to take power... he may have been terribly mistaken but he was a committed revolutionary of a different camp than bolshevism...

You will, Prufrock, as an Orwell fan, know 'Homage to catalonia' which offers a vision of anarchism a million miles from its hippy-dippy or madly violent craziness image of today...

Van der Lubbe also liked to present himself as a fall guy for things. By most accounts he was a lightbulb short of a picnic, so to speak. There are photographs of him setting several small fires all of which self extinguished, then there was the main fire which burnt the thing down, of which there are no photographs. It is possible Van der Lubbe wasn't the one who started it, and it is possible the Nazis were behind it. The first is almost implausible, the second improbable, though neither are impossible, which is my point.

Youe eat at night?

[BWFC_Insane]

The sole issue of immigrants isn't so much about any racial aspect as some would have us believe. It's about a control policy highlighted by the lack of housing, the ridiculous overworking of the health system, the amount of benefits handed out and the education system. Trying to get twenty eggs into a box meant for ten is utterly pointless. Either make bigger boxes or stop the hens laying. Don't blame the hens whatever.

Britain's problems are about this lack of control. People wouldn't highlight a hospital as being "full of Asians" if they didn't have to wait three hours for treatment. The blame lies in the system. Thereby hangs another tale: lack of policing and the crime elements that result from it. Again, to many eggs for the box. Again, poor control. Now, because of the recession and people losing their means of making a living, foreign workers take the blame for another cock-up situation. A land of milk and honey is fine when it's working, but not too dusty when the milk sours and the honey dries up. We live in a great country that is suddenly on a knife-edge because of pressures and tensions. When the government learn how to manage the country as efficiently as they do the Inland Revenue, maybe we'll get back on track. Meantime, applying some sort of control over the priority elements migh t make BNP style thinking redundant. Nothing succeeds like success.

TD people are losing jobs because we're in a recession.

We're in a recession primarily because of bankers making poor lending decisions and being crippled with unrecoverable debts. The fault of this is the banking system and the people who have overspent and racked up debts they can't pay back.

What the fook has it to do with foreign workers?

[Hoboh]

The sole issue of immigrants isn't so much about any racial aspect as some would have us believe. It's about a control policy highlighted by the lack of housing, the ridiculous overworking of the health system, the amount of benefits handed out and the education system. Trying to get twenty eggs into a box meant for ten is utterly pointless. Either make bigger boxes or stop the hens laying. Don't blame the hens whatever.

Britain's problems are about this lack of control. People wouldn't highlight a hospital as being "full of Asians" if they didn't have to wait three hours for treatment. The blame lies in the system. Thereby hangs another tale: lack of policing and the crime elements that result from it. Again, to many eggs for the box. Again, poor control. Now, because of the recession and people losing their means of making a living, foreign workers take the blame for another cock-up situation. A land of milk and honey is fine when it's working, but not too dusty when the milk sours and the honey dries up. We live in a great country that is suddenly on a knife-edge because of pressures and tensions. When the government learn how to manage the country as efficiently as they do the Inland Revenue, maybe we'll get back on track. Meantime, applying some sort of control over the priority elements migh t make BNP style thinking redundant. Nothing succeeds like success.

Tango why don't you put your re-writes of my ideas up earlier? it would save me a shed load of hassle

[Hoboh]

The sole issue of immigrants isn't so much about any racial aspect as some would have us believe. It's about a control policy highlighted by the lack of housing, the ridiculous overworking of the health system, the amount of benefits handed out and the education system. Trying to get twenty eggs into a box meant for ten is utterly pointless. Either make bigger boxes or stop the hens laying. Don't blame the hens whatever.

Britain's problems are about this lack of control. People wouldn't highlight a hospital as being "full of Asians" if they didn't have to wait three hours for treatment. The blame lies in the system. Thereby hangs another tale: lack of policing and the crime elements that result from it. Again, to many eggs for the box. Again, poor control. Now, because of the recession and people losing their means of making a living, foreign workers take the blame for another cock-up situation. A land of milk and honey is fine when it's working, but not too dusty when the milk sours and the honey dries up. We live in a great country that is suddenly on a knife-edge because of pressures and tensions. When the government learn how to manage the country as efficiently as they do the Inland Revenue, maybe we'll get back on track. Meantime, applying some sort of control over the priority elements migh t make BNP style thinking redundant. Nothing succeeds like success.

TD people are losing jobs because we're in a recession.

We're in a recession primarily because of bankers making poor lending decisions and being crippled with unrecoverable debts. The fault of this is the banking system and the people who have overspent and racked up debts they can't pay back.

What the fook has it to do with foreign workers?

You don't work for that agency in Manchester do you? the one that has qeues of Ploles outside littering the pavements!

[Porrohman]

Those who rule us have.
Reduced our country to bankruptcy…
Handcuffed our police with ‘targets’ and political correctness and human rights for criminals…
Disembowelled our justice system and taken power away from our judges causing an upsurge of crime nationwide…
Run our NHS into the ground so our hospitals are overcrowded and becoming at worse ‘somewhere you go to die’…
Crippled our education system with overcrowded classes and ‘targets’ in place of true teaching methods, resulting in ill educated thugs only fit to roam the streets…
Turned a blind eye to thousands of illegal immigrants, which is an insult to those of our immigrants who have been here for years and had to jump through hoops to be allowed to settle here. Good people who are the backbone of our country, working hard and paying into our system…
Obeyed their masters in Europe and allowed a tsunami of migrants to pour over our borders, ready to sign on our benefit system and take every freebee going at a time when we are in deep recession and cannot support our own people…
Now we have a cabinet of ‘unelected’ members of the House of Lords and MPs who are too spineless to stand up to ‘Power Mad’ Mandy and an arrogant, bad mannered, bad tempered, bully of a Prime Minister who clings to power like a limpet even when the country despise him…
Those who want to rule us.
A party who are so far up Europe’s rear end they can’t see or hear anything the people say…
Another party who will piddle around with their ‘Europe Funded’ break-away-group. Where they will talk the talk and have about as much power to change anything as a group of Girl Guides.
If they want the people to vote for them and stand by them they should get off their knees and stop fawning all over Europe and start to behave like ‘true Brits’

[TANGODANCER]

The sole issue of immigrants isn't so much about any racial aspect as some would have us believe. It's about a control policy highlighted by the lack of housing, the ridiculous overworking of the health system, the amount of benefits handed out and the education system. Trying to get twenty eggs into a box meant for ten is utterly pointless. Either make bigger boxes or stop the hens laying. Don't blame the hens whatever.

Britain's problems are about this lack of control. People wouldn't highlight a hospital as being "full of Asians" if they didn't have to wait three hours for treatment. The blame lies in the system. Thereby hangs another tale: lack of policing and the crime elements that result from it. Again, to many eggs for the box. Again, poor control. Now, because of the recession and people losing their means of making a living, foreign workers take the blame for another cock-up situation. A land of milk and honey is fine when it's working, but not too dusty when the milk sours and the honey dries up. We live in a great country that is suddenly on a knife-edge because of pressures and tensions. When the government learn how to manage the country as efficiently as they do the Inland Revenue, maybe we'll get back on track. Meantime, applying some sort of control over the priority elements migh t make BNP style thinking redundant. Nothing succeeds like success.

TD people are losing jobs because we're in a recession.

We're in a recession primarily because of bankers making poor lending decisions and being crippled with unrecoverable debts. The fault of this is the banking system and the people who have overspent and racked up debts they can't pay back.

What the fook has it to do with foreign workers?

You need to ask that? You can't see the related elements of the argument (effectively about politics, politicians and bad organisation of a country)?
You can't see how people out of work won't be angry that that happened and there are no jobs available? You can't see that governments are responsible for banks behaviour or that the immigration policy won't get hammered and blamed entirely by some for their plight? In the midst of this, what's the main topic of interest amongst the general public? Why, it's a massive expenses fiddle by our politicians, so they get angry and vote for daft outsiders like the BNP.

Two of us are having differences of opinion here; that's a fifty percent split. This is what my percentage argument is about, differences of opinion highlighted by a pressure situation. If you don't think foreign workers, (indeed foreigners at all) come into the equation, then why are we discussing a party who'd have them all out of the country on the next boat?

[TANGODANCER]

The sole issue of immigrants isn't so much about any racial aspect as some would have us believe. It's about a control policy highlighted by the lack of housing, the ridiculous overworking of the health system, the amount of benefits handed out and the education system. Trying to get twenty eggs into a box meant for ten is utterly pointless. Either make bigger boxes or stop the hens laying. Don't blame the hens whatever.

Britain's problems are about this lack of control. People wouldn't highlight a hospital as being "full of Asians" if they didn't have to wait three hours for treatment. The blame lies in the system. Thereby hangs another tale: lack of policing and the crime elements that result from it. Again, to many eggs for the box. Again, poor control. Now, because of the recession and people losing their means of making a living, foreign workers take the blame for another cock-up situation. A land of milk and honey is fine when it's working, but not too dusty when the milk sours and the honey dries up. We live in a great country that is suddenly on a knife-edge because of pressures and tensions. When the government learn how to manage the country as efficiently as they do the Inland Revenue, maybe we'll get back on track. Meantime, applying some sort of control over the priority elements migh t make BNP style thinking redundant. Nothing succeeds like success.

Tango why don't you put your re-writes of my ideas up earlier? it would save me a shed load of hassle

Probably because I don't read em.

[Hoboh]

The sole issue of immigrants isn't so much about any racial aspect as some would have us believe. It's about a control policy highlighted by the lack of housing, the ridiculous overworking of the health system, the amount of benefits handed out and the education system. Trying to get twenty eggs into a box meant for ten is utterly pointless. Either make bigger boxes or stop the hens laying. Don't blame the hens whatever.

Britain's problems are about this lack of control. People wouldn't highlight a hospital as being "full of Asians" if they didn't have to wait three hours for treatment. The blame lies in the system. Thereby hangs another tale: lack of policing and the crime elements that result from it. Again, to many eggs for the box. Again, poor control. Now, because of the recession and people losing their means of making a living, foreign workers take the blame for another cock-up situation. A land of milk and honey is fine when it's working, but not too dusty when the milk sours and the honey dries up. We live in a great country that is suddenly on a knife-edge because of pressures and tensions. When the government learn how to manage the country as efficiently as they do the Inland Revenue, maybe we'll get back on track. Meantime, applying some sort of control over the priority elements migh t make BNP style thinking redundant. Nothing succeeds like success.

Tango why don't you put your re-writes of my ideas up earlier? it would save me a shed load of hassle

Probably because I don't read em.

You just slipped down a snake there you did!

[BWFC_Insane]

The sole issue of immigrants isn't so much about any racial aspect as some would have us believe. It's about a control policy highlighted by the lack of housing, the ridiculous overworking of the health system, the amount of benefits handed out and the education system. Trying to get twenty eggs into a box meant for ten is utterly pointless. Either make bigger boxes or stop the hens laying. Don't blame the hens whatever.

Britain's problems are about this lack of control. People wouldn't highlight a hospital as being "full of Asians" if they didn't have to wait three hours for treatment. The blame lies in the system. Thereby hangs another tale: lack of policing and the crime elements that result from it. Again, to many eggs for the box. Again, poor control. Now, because of the recession and people losing their means of making a living, foreign workers take the blame for another cock-up situation. A land of milk and honey is fine when it's working, but not too dusty when the milk sours and the honey dries up. We live in a great country that is suddenly on a knife-edge because of pressures and tensions. When the government learn how to manage the country as efficiently as they do the Inland Revenue, maybe we'll get back on track. Meantime, applying some sort of control over the priority elements migh t make BNP style thinking redundant. Nothing succeeds like success.

TD people are losing jobs because we're in a recession.

We're in a recession primarily because of bankers making poor lending decisions and being crippled with unrecoverable debts. The fault of this is the banking system and the people who have overspent and racked up debts they can't pay back.

What the fook has it to do with foreign workers?

You need to ask that? You can't see the related elements of the argument (effectively about politics, politicians and bad organisation of a country)?
You can't see how people out of work won't be angry that that happened and there are no jobs available? You can't see that governments are responsible for banks behaviour or that the immigration policy won't get hammered and blamed entirely by some for their plight? In the midst of this, what's the main topic of interest amongst the general public? Why, it's a massive expenses fiddle by our politicians, so they get angry and vote for daft outsiders like the BNP.

Two of us are having differences of opinion here; that's a fifty percent split. This is what my percentage argument is about, differences of opinion highlighted by a pressure situation. If you don't think foreign workers, (indeed foreigners at all) come into the equation, then why are we discussing a party who'd have them all out of the country on the next boat?[/quote]

Because the only reason they want to do that is because they are racists.

Foreign workers don't stop people getting jobs anymore than old people or women or disabled people who are in jobs do.

Why is it somebodys "right" to have a job ahead of a bloke who is better but just happens to be from another country?

If we killed everyone at the age of 60 then that would help solve the financial crisis. Or perhaps forced all people over 60 to emigrate to France at their own expense? That would sort out most of the problems in an instant. Would rather have able bodied workers from India than old doddery fookers from Nuneaton who contribute nowt but take a lot.

[Hoboh]

The sole issue of immigrants isn't so much about any racial aspect as some would have us believe. It's about a control policy highlighted by the lack of housing, the ridiculous overworking of the health system, the amount of benefits handed out and the education system. Trying to get twenty eggs into a box meant for ten is utterly pointless. Either make bigger boxes or stop the hens laying. Don't blame the hens whatever.

Britain's problems are about this lack of control. People wouldn't highlight a hospital as being "full of Asians" if they didn't have to wait three hours for treatment. The blame lies in the system. Thereby hangs another tale: lack of policing and the crime elements that result from it. Again, to many eggs for the box. Again, poor control. Now, because of the recession and people losing their means of making a living, foreign workers take the blame for another cock-up situation. A land of milk and honey is fine when it's working, but not too dusty when the milk sours and the honey dries up. We live in a great country that is suddenly on a knife-edge because of pressures and tensions. When the government learn how to manage the country as efficiently as they do the Inland Revenue, maybe we'll get back on track. Meantime, applying some sort of control over the priority elements migh t make BNP style thinking redundant. Nothing succeeds like success.

TD people are losing jobs because we're in a recession.

We're in a recession primarily because of bankers making poor lending decisions and being crippled with unrecoverable debts. The fault of this is the banking system and the people who have overspent and racked up debts they can't pay back.

What the fook has it to do with foreign workers?

You need to ask that? You can't see the related elements of the argument (effectively about politics, politicians and bad organisation of a country)?
You can't see how people out of work won't be angry that that happened and there are no jobs available? You can't see that governments are responsible for banks behaviour or that the immigration policy won't get hammered and blamed entirely by some for their plight? In the midst of this, what's the main topic of interest amongst the general public? Why, it's a massive expenses fiddle by our politicians, so they get angry and vote for daft outsiders like the BNP.

Two of us are having differences of opinion here; that's a fifty percent split. This is what my percentage argument is about, differences of opinion highlighted by a pressure situation. If you don't think foreign workers, (indeed foreigners at all) come into the equation, then why are we discussing a party who'd have them all out of the country on the next boat?[/quote]

Because the only reason they want to do that is because they are racists.

Foreign workers don't stop people getting jobs anymore than old people or women or disabled people who are in jobs do.

Why is it somebodys "right" to have a job ahead of a bloke who is better but just happens to be from another country?

If we killed everyone at the age of 60 then that would help solve the financial crisis. Or perhaps forced all people over 60 to emigrate to France at their own expense? That would sort out most of the problems in an instant. Would rather have able bodied workers from India than old doddery fookers from Nuneaton who contribute nowt but take a lot.

Can I come round and park on your setee and watch the telly plz? after all you only belong there so whats being from another part of town got to do with it?

BTW I googeled you and found you
to say I was suprised would be an understatement! Don't worry I ain't going to out your views on Megson

[BWFC_Insane]

The sole issue of immigrants isn't so much about any racial aspect as some would have us believe. It's about a control policy highlighted by the lack of housing, the ridiculous overworking of the health system, the amount of benefits handed out and the education system. Trying to get twenty eggs into a box meant for ten is utterly pointless. Either make bigger boxes or stop the hens laying. Don't blame the hens whatever.

Britain's problems are about this lack of control. People wouldn't highlight a hospital as being "full of Asians" if they didn't have to wait three hours for treatment. The blame lies in the system. Thereby hangs another tale: lack of policing and the crime elements that result from it. Again, to many eggs for the box. Again, poor control. Now, because of the recession and people losing their means of making a living, foreign workers take the blame for another cock-up situation. A land of milk and honey is fine when it's working, but not too dusty when the milk sours and the honey dries up. We live in a great country that is suddenly on a knife-edge because of pressures and tensions. When the government learn how to manage the country as efficiently as they do the Inland Revenue, maybe we'll get back on track. Meantime, applying some sort of control over the priority elements migh t make BNP style thinking redundant. Nothing succeeds like success.

TD people are losing jobs because we're in a recession.

We're in a recession primarily because of bankers making poor lending decisions and being crippled with unrecoverable debts. The fault of this is the banking system and the people who have overspent and racked up debts they can't pay back.

What the fook has it to do with foreign workers?

You need to ask that? You can't see the related elements of the argument (effectively about politics, politicians and bad organisation of a country)?
You can't see how people out of work won't be angry that that happened and there are no jobs available? You can't see that governments are responsible for banks behaviour or that the immigration policy won't get hammered and blamed entirely by some for their plight? In the midst of this, what's the main topic of interest amongst the general public? Why, it's a massive expenses fiddle by our politicians, so they get angry and vote for daft outsiders like the BNP.

Two of us are having differences of opinion here; that's a fifty percent split. This is what my percentage argument is about, differences of opinion highlighted by a pressure situation. If you don't think foreign workers, (indeed foreigners at all) come into the equation, then why are we discussing a party who'd have them all out of the country on the next boat?[/quote]

Because the only reason they want to do that is because they are racists.

Foreign workers don't stop people getting jobs anymore than old people or women or disabled people who are in jobs do.

Why is it somebodys "right" to have a job ahead of a bloke who is better but just happens to be from another country?

If we killed everyone at the age of 60 then that would help solve the financial crisis. Or perhaps forced all people over 60 to emigrate to France at their own expense? That would sort out most of the problems in an instant. Would rather have able bodied workers from India than old doddery fookers from Nuneaton who contribute nowt but take a lot.

Can I come round and park on your setee and watch the telly plz? after all you only belong there so whats being from another part of town got to do with it?

Owning a property and its contents are entirely different concepts.

You don't "own" England or Bolton or even your street. The logical extension to your argument is that nobody should be allowed to move from the house and street they were born in as that is "where they belong".

[BWFC_Insane]

BTW I googeled you and found you
to say I was suprised would be an understatement! Don't worry I ain't going to out your views on Megson

I literally have no idea what you are on about?