European and Local Elections

[a1]

Why is it somebodys "right" to have a job ahead of a bloke who is better but just happens to be from another country?

If we killed everyone at the age of 60 then that would help solve the financial crisis. Or perhaps forced all people over 60 to emigrate to France at their own expense? That would sort out most of the problems in an instant. Would rather have able bodied workers from India than old doddery fookers from Nuneaton who contribute nowt but take a lot.

did you write logans run ?

[Hoboh]

"Owning a property and its contents are entirely different concepts.

You don't "own" England or Bolton or even your street. The logical extension to your argument is that nobody should be allowed to move from the house and street they were born in as that is "where they belong"


Oh I don't know I actually have the freehold and do own a bit of England that happens to be in Bolton and I do actually own a part of my street smartypants

Look its all things in moderation there are just too many migrant workers and shirkers here now, we are only a small area on this planet and enough is enough! Are the Aussies, Canadians etc raceist because they insist on certain qualifications to allow anyone in to settle and work? or plenty other countrys who actually enforce visa conditions and not take the attitude "oh well you got here we might as well asign you DSS rights etc 'cause you ain't going no where for the next 10 years at least!"

[Montreal Wanderer]

What he said! National Socialism in the 1920's and 1930's was closer to Communism than any other political ethos. Which is why they identified them as their biggest rivals and thus set out to destroy them.

The clue's in the name.

Closer in that they were both totalitarian regimes at the opposite end of the spectrum from liberal democracies, though the philosophies and who in theory is in charge. Communism has generally required an overthrow of the state by revolution, while right wing dictatorship were often military coups. The fascists/nazis were, however, democratically elected in Germany and Italy and acquired absolute power more slowly through passing of laws.

Agreed Monty. Hence my earlier recommendation of William Shirer's "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich."

As I recall the Nazis got 44% of the seats in the Reichstag and needed a two thirds majority to change the constitution. Burn the Reichstag, blame the commies and outlaw them as a party, and voila - a two thirds majority. All very democratic. I read Shirer over forty years ago - it was well done and comprehensive for a journalistic (i.e. popular) treatment.

I agree with a great deal of your argument - however the reichstag fire was not set by the nazis (though it was a welcome blessing for them), nor by the communists - van der Lubbe was an anarchist revolutionary naively trying to strike a blow against both totalitarians and give vent to his hostility to what he saw as a venal and repressive fake democracy...
He was wrong - but he wasn't a nazi stooge...

I missed this discussion being in a different time zone, etc. Van der Lubbe was certainly anti-Nazi but had surely been a communist all his life. As a result of the fire it was the German communists who were blamed and banned, many of whom may not have been Stalinist (tbh I am uncertain of all the affiliations of these groups). I would agree with prufrock that it is not 100% certain that vdL set the major blaze, though it is a sandwich short of a picnic - not a light bulb, prufers - I hate mixed metaphors.

[Hoboh]

BTW I googeled you and found you
to say I was suprised would be an understatement! Don't worry I ain't going to out your views on Megson

I literally have no idea what you are on about?

Doh!

SK: Big Sam, Little Sam… Ginger Gary? Has Megson done enough to convince you that he’s the man who can take Bolton forward?

BWFC Insane: YES. Early days, but Megson is my kind of manager. No cliches. No messing around. Tough, but seems to get on with the players. We are now playing to "get results" rather than to "entertain" or play "nice football". Thats the way it always fecking should be.

ps I'm only fooling in the absence of little real things happening on the BWFC side of life

[TANGODANCER]

Two of us are having differences of opinion here; that's a fifty percent split. This is what my percentage argument is about, differences of opinion highlighted by a pressure situation. If you don't think foreign workers, (indeed foreigners at all) come into the equation, then why are we discussing a party who'd have them all out of the country on the next boat?[/quote]

Because the only reason they want to do that is because they are racists.

Foreign workers don't stop people getting jobs anymore than old people or women or disabled people who are in jobs do.

Why is it somebodys "right" to have a job ahead of a bloke who is better but just happens to be from another country?

If we killed everyone at the age of 60 then that would help solve the financial crisis. Or perhaps forced all people over 60 to emigrate to France at their own expense? That would sort out most of the problems in an instant. Would rather have able bodied workers from India than old doddery fookers from Nuneaton who contribute nowt but take a lot.

Whoa there Billy! Are you not getting things a little out of flunter here? Where did I ever differentiate between races or their right to be equal? We're talking BNP and why people are drawn to them in a time such as now. As for your last statement, I assume you have parents or grandparents who might not just agree with that sentiment. Few of them have done anything except graft their bollox off and spend a lifetime paying taxes. "Contribute nowt and take a lot" is rather an insult. I'm 70 this year and still working and paying taxes. It's rather from necessity then choice, believe me. This is 2009 where a pound equals a loaf and not a third of your weekly wages.

[Hoboh]

Two of us are having differences of opinion here; that's a fifty percent split. This is what my percentage argument is about, differences of opinion highlighted by a pressure situation. If you don't think foreign workers, (indeed foreigners at all) come into the equation, then why are we discussing a party who'd have them all out of the country on the next boat?[/quote]

Because the only reason they want to do that is because they are racists.

Foreign workers don't stop people getting jobs anymore than old people or women or disabled people who are in jobs do.

Why is it somebodys "right" to have a job ahead of a bloke who is better but just happens to be from another country?

If we killed everyone at the age of 60 then that would help solve the financial crisis. Or perhaps forced all people over 60 to emigrate to France at their own expense? That would sort out most of the problems in an instant. Would rather have able bodied workers from India than old doddery fookers from Nuneaton who contribute nowt but take a lot.

Whoa there Billy! Are you not getting things a little out of flunter here? Where did I ever differentiate between races or their right to be equal? We're talking BNP and why people are drawn to them in a time such as now. As for your last statement, I assume you have parents or grandparents who might not just agree with that sentiment. Few of them have done anything except graft their bollox off and spend a lifetime paying taxes. "Contribute nowt and take a lot" is rather an insult. I'm 70 this year and still working and paying taxes. It's rather from necessity then choice, believe me. This is 2009 where a pound equals a loaf and not a third of your weekly wages.

Youv'e lost me there?

[TANGODANCER]

Whoa there Billy! Are you not getting things a little out of flunter here? Where did I ever differentiate between races or their right to be equal? We're talking BNP and why people are drawn to them in a time such as now. As for your last statement, I assume you have parents or grandparents who might not just agree with that sentiment. Few of them have done anything except graft their bollox off and spend a lifetime paying taxes. "Contribute nowt and take a lot" is rather an insult. I'm 70 this year and still working and paying taxes. It's rather from necessity then choice, believe me. This is 2009 where a pound equals a loaf and not a third of your weekly wages.

Youv'e lost me there?[/quote]

Not to digress from topic, but, I started work at sixteen on about £2-50 per week. At eighteen we go classed as "improvers" and got about £4. Not till you reached twenty one did you class as journeymen on full rate.

[Montreal Wanderer]

Two of us are having differences of opinion here; that's a fifty percent split. This is what my percentage argument is about, differences of opinion highlighted by a pressure situation. If you don't think foreign workers, (indeed foreigners at all) come into the equation, then why are we discussing a party who'd have them all out of the country on the next boat?[/quote]

Because the only reason they want to do that is because they are racists.

Foreign workers don't stop people getting jobs anymore than old people or women or disabled people who are in jobs do.

Why is it somebodys "right" to have a job ahead of a bloke who is better but just happens to be from another country?

If we killed everyone at the age of 60 then that would help solve the financial crisis. Or perhaps forced all people over 60 to emigrate to France at their own expense? That would sort out most of the problems in an instant. Would rather have able bodied workers from India than old doddery fookers from Nuneaton who contribute nowt but take a lot.

Whoa there Billy! Are you not getting things a little out of flunter here? Where did I ever differentiate between races or their right to be equal? We're talking BNP and why people are drawn to them in a time such as now. As for your last statement, I assume you have parents or grandparents who might not just agree with that sentiment. Few of them have done anything except graft their bollox off and spend a lifetime paying taxes. "Contribute nowt and take a lot" is rather an insult. I'm 70 this year and still working and paying taxes. It's rather from necessity then choice, believe me. This is 2009 where a pound equals a loaf and not a third of your weekly wages.

I didn't realize you were from Nuneaton, TD - thought you were Irish.

[TANGODANCER]

I didn't realize you were from Nuneaton, TD - thought you were Irish.

Ah!. Nuneaton, right. Thought we were discussing luxuries. There were none-eaten in our house, sure an all!

[Montreal Wanderer]

Whoa there Billy! Are you not getting things a little out of flunter here? Where did I ever differentiate between races or their right to be equal? We're talking BNP and why people are drawn to them in a time such as now. As for your last statement, I assume you have parents or grandparents who might not just agree with that sentiment. Few of them have done anything except graft their bollox off and spend a lifetime paying taxes. "Contribute nowt and take a lot" is rather an insult. I'm 70 this year and still working and paying taxes. It's rather from necessity then choice, believe me. This is 2009 where a pound equals a loaf and not a third of your weekly wages.

Youv'e lost me there?

Not to digress from topic, but, I started work at sixteen on about £2-50 per week. At eighteen we go classed as "improvers" and got about £4. Not till you reached twenty one did you class as journeymen on full rate.

Yes, but you started work when Churchill was still PM, Bannister and Chataway were world record holders, and we still had rationing. Times change, old boy.

[TANGODANCER]

Yes, but you started work when Churchill was still PM, Bannister and Chataway were world record holders, and we still had rationing. Times change, old boy.

Aye, and I'm still fxxking at it.

[BWFC_Insane]

Two of us are having differences of opinion here; that's a fifty percent split. This is what my percentage argument is about, differences of opinion highlighted by a pressure situation. If you don't think foreign workers, (indeed foreigners at all) come into the equation, then why are we discussing a party who'd have them all out of the country on the next boat?[/quote]

Because the only reason they want to do that is because they are racists.

Foreign workers don't stop people getting jobs anymore than old people or women or disabled people who are in jobs do.

Why is it somebodys "right" to have a job ahead of a bloke who is better but just happens to be from another country?

If we killed everyone at the age of 60 then that would help solve the financial crisis. Or perhaps forced all people over 60 to emigrate to France at their own expense? That would sort out most of the problems in an instant. Would rather have able bodied workers from India than old doddery fookers from Nuneaton who contribute nowt but take a lot.

Whoa there Billy! Are you not getting things a little out of flunter here? Where did I ever differentiate between races or their right to be equal? We're talking BNP and why people are drawn to them in a time such as now. As for your last statement, I assume you have parents or grandparents who might not just agree with that sentiment. Few of them have done anything except graft their bollox off and spend a lifetime paying taxes. "Contribute nowt and take a lot" is rather an insult. I'm 70 this year and still working and paying taxes. It's rather from necessity then choice, believe me. This is 2009 where a pound equals a loaf and not a third of your weekly wages.

TD my comments about old people were facetious. I don't actually agree with those sentiments.

I just don't happen to think migrant workers are this countries big issue. I don't think the ones that work and pay taxes are doing us any harm as a society. I believe its media driven hype that people have swallowed.

The biggest problems in this country are the general populations spend spend spend attitude and the general belief that people are owed "something for nothing". If people stopped looking to blame someone and got on with things it would be better.

[Bruce Rioja]

And where can you buy a loaf for £1.00 ?

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

And where can you buy a loaf for £1.00 ?

Budgen's, on current offer; Lidl, generally.

I find myself agreeing unusually heartily with BWFCi:

I just don't happen to think migrant workers are this countries big issue. I don't think the ones that work and pay taxes are doing us any harm as a society. I believe its media driven hype that people have swallowed.

The biggest problems in this country are the general populations spend spend spend attitude and the general belief that people are owed "something for nothing". If people stopped looking to blame someone and got on with things it would be better.

Thing is, in a recession people start looking for people to hate. At which point, foam-specked sh*t-rags like the Mail stop being half as amusing.

[BWFC_Insane]

And where can you buy a loaf for £1.00 ?

Budgen's, on current offer; Lidl, generally.

I find myself agreeing unusually heartily with BWFCi:

I just don't happen to think migrant workers are this countries big issue. I don't think the ones that work and pay taxes are doing us any harm as a society. I believe its media driven hype that people have swallowed.

The biggest problems in this country are the general populations spend spend spend attitude and the general belief that people are owed "something for nothing". If people stopped looking to blame someone and got on with things it would be better.

Thing is, in a recession people start looking for people to hate. At which point, foam-specked sh*t-rags like the Mail stop being half as amusing.

Cheeky bugger. We agree plenty.

[TANGODANCER]

And where can you buy a loaf for £1.00 ?

Not been shopping for a while.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Cheeky bugger. We agree plenty.

No we don't. Because you're so argumentative.

[Bruce Rioja]

And where can you buy a loaf for £1.00 ?

Not been shopping for a while.

Not where you go, clearly.

[TANGODANCER]

And where can you buy a loaf for £1.00 ?

Not been shopping for a while.

Not where you go, clearly.

Nah, wife does the shopping. Can't stand me moaning about the price of everything. "Why, I remember when you could get an ice-cream for threpence and fish and chips for elevenpence....."

[Dujon]

I had to laugh at the 'loaf of bread for a quid' comment. For a number of years I spurned the bread produced my our major manufacturers as, to me, it smelled and tasted like plastic. Then I tried my local bakery (I'm a slow learner) which is but 400 metres from Chateau Dujon. Brilliant - bread that tastes and smells like bread - produced by local people on the local premises and costs me $1.80 per loaf (that's about 90p in your money), the price was increased just last week by 10 cents. The proprietor and staff of this now-well-thought-of establishment is/are Asian (of what nationality I do not know). The take-away shop situated a couple of doors down from the bakery is now run by Cambodians and, while the accent is obvious, a nicer set of people you couldn't expect to find.

Perhaps it's a bit different here compared to the U.K., I really don't know, but I am concerned at the level of immigration in this country. That view is not fuelled by some sort of racist bent but by the ability of the country to provide the infrastructure to cope with the number of people arriving (legally or otherwise). If my reading is correct Sydney alone receives approximately 1000 people per week into its population via immigration alone. What the over all population increase is (taking into account births and deaths and internal migration) I don't know. The most important part of my point is water. At times we are blessed with an abundance of such but, more often, cursed with the lack of such. There are people who claim that a population of 50 million souls is sustainable; I think that they are pissing into the wind.

The grass is only greener on the other side if you leave it alone.