The Ashes 2009

[CAPSLOCK]

Flintoffs the talisman

The big brother who always looked out for you

'Lets win it for Fred' will run through the squad, maybe

Anyway, well done, Freddie, top man

Go and fill your pockets in the IPL

[hisroyalgingerness]

Albeit the drunken brother that forgets birthdays and gets whammed at Xmas

[Hoboh]

So ends yet another "nearly great" in english test cricket!
Personally I blame the booze and youth culture in the UK along with the fly by night sharks for keep ruining some really good hot world prospects in all sports over here.
Freddie binged on ale and food, fought weight problems which did feck all for keeping his body finely tuned (Think Ricky Hatton) and then got involved in the greed for cricket series run by the equivlent of Murdocs football league.
'tis a shame but he won't be the last.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Bad timing this, it's only going to boost the Aussies. He should have waited til after the Ashes methinks......

Seconded. No idea why you'd announce it now, unless the knee has completely gone again and he's out of the series entirely

Could have the opposite affect and inspire the lads to find that little bit extra so they can give him a good send off.

It's a shame. But for the injuries and not looking after himself as much as he could, he could have been one of the modern greats. I think he'll always be remembered as a great cricketer and competitor.

[jimbo]

You have to look at his shape and blame it for his injury problems. So much weight goes through the joints when bowling the lighter you are the better. Had he looked after himself earlier in his career and put less stress on his joints when running in at 90mph he may not have the problems he has today.

[Verbal]

Could of got a set of whites which were unripped though, scruffy git.

[jimbo]

Could of got a set of whites which were unripped though, scruffy git.

Why were you looking in that area?

[William the White]

So ends yet another "nearly great" in english test cricket!
Personally I blame the booze and youth culture in the UK along with the fly by night sharks for keep ruining some really good hot world prospects in all sports over here.
Freddie binged on ale and food, fought weight problems which did feck all for keeping his body finely tuned (Think Ricky Hatton) and then got involved in the greed for cricket series run by the equivlent of Murdocs football league.
'tis a shame but he won't be the last.

I blame megson!

[Worthy4England]

So ends yet another "nearly great" in english test cricket!
Personally I blame the booze and youth culture in the UK along with the fly by night sharks for keep ruining some really good hot world prospects in all sports over here.
Freddie binged on ale and food, fought weight problems which did feck all for keeping his body finely tuned (Think Ricky Hatton) and then got involved in the greed for cricket series run by the equivlent of Murdocs football league.
'tis a shame but he won't be the last.

I blame megson!

You will when he signs as our creative midfielder...

[Tombwfc]

Bad timing this, it's only going to boost the Aussies. He should have waited til after the Ashes methinks......

Seconded. No idea why you'd announce it now, unless the knee has completely gone again and he's out of the series entirely

Could have the opposite affect and inspire the lads to find that little bit extra so they can give him a good send off.

It's a shame. But for the injuries and not looking after himself as much as he could, he could have been one of the modern greats. I think he'll always be remembered as a great cricketer and competitor.

I don't think his place as a modern great is under threat really. It's a similar type of thing to Beckham, whereby above and beyond his achievements in the sport (which aren't to be sniffed at), he'll be remembered most for the way he transcended it. The man is a national icon and is almost entirely responsible for the newest generation of cricket fans.

Anyway, enough of talking like he's dead, he's still got an Ashes to win, aswell as a World Cup, 20/20 World Cup and to clean up with Lancs.

I don't think the timing is a massive issue really, why would it boost the Aussies? It wouldn't have taken a genius to deduce that this was more than likely going to be the last series against them he played.

[Lord Kangana]

Mike Atherton was on the radio earlier. His opinion was that the guy will be remembered as a very good, but not a great, player. I agree. With peers like Warne, Ponting, Murali, Tendulkar, etc etc etc theres no way he could or should be considered great.

Thanks for the memories, maybe he can fire Lancs from being perenial bridesmaids.

[thebish]

Could of got a set of whites which were unripped though, scruffy git.

Why were you looking in that area?

which area?

[jimbo]

Mike Atherton was on the radio earlier. His opinion was that the guy will be remembered as a very good, but not a great, player. I agree. With peers like Warne, Ponting, Murali, Tendulkar, etc etc etc theres no way he could or should be considered great.

Thanks for the memories, maybe he can fire Lancs from being perenial bridesmaids.

Kallis is the great alrounder of his generation, if not ever. Flintoff doesn't come close. As Athers said, good not great.

[Bruno]

Kallis also suffered similar injuries to Flintoff, but adjusted his action and came back stronger and better.

If Flintoff had been more professional he could have been seen as better than he was. He had a good 2005, but other than that I can't remember many shining moments. He's no Botham.

[jimbo]

Flintoff's stats

1998-2009 Matches - 75, Runs - 3658 @ 31.80 100s - 5, Wkts - 212 @ 33.08 5w - 2 Catches - 51


And Kallis

1995-2009 Matches - 131, Runs - 10277 @ 54.66 100s - 31, Wkts - 258 @ 31.08 5w - 5 Catches - 147

Kallis arguably the most underrated player ever, and best all-rounder ever. His weight has also been an issue as Bruno mentioned but his action isn't as stressful as Flintoff's on the joints.

[Worthy4England]

Mike Atherton was on the radio earlier. His opinion was that the guy will be remembered as a very good, but not a great, player. I agree. With peers like Warne, Ponting, Murali, Tendulkar, etc etc etc theres no way he could or should be considered great.

Thanks for the memories, maybe he can fire Lancs from being perenial bridesmaids.

Kallis is the great alrounder of his generation, if not ever. Flintoff doesn't come close. As Athers said, good not great.

Interesting one. He's certainly not as good as Kallis, but he compares well with people like Botham, Kapil Dev who were both considered great all rounders.

Kallis V Imran would be a good debate. Kallis undoubtedly the better batter, but Imran comfortably the better bowler.

[TANGODANCER]

Anyway, on with the motley. Win the toss and stick them in. Early attack and away we go........er, well, theoretically that is.

Ah well, forget that one then. We bat, Flintoff plays and Onions replaces Monty. Onwards.

[Worthy4England]

Kallis also suffered similar injuries to Flintoff, but adjusted his action and came back stronger and better.

If Flintoff had been more professional he could have been seen as better than he was. He had a good 2005, but other than that I can't remember many shining moments. He's no Botham.

Not quite no - but not far off - 2 points difference in their batting average and 4 points difference in their bowling...

[Bruno]

Kallis also suffered similar injuries to Flintoff, but adjusted his action and came back stronger and better.

If Flintoff had been more professional he could have been seen as better than he was. He had a good 2005, but other than that I can't remember many shining moments. He's no Botham.

Not quite no - but not far off - 2 points difference in their batting average and 4 points difference in their bowling...

I meant in more general terms. Botham was similar to Flintoff in that they are flawed characters, but Botham has become a shining example of how to use your fame to help others, can't see Flintoff doing anything like that when he knocks it on the head.

All this retirement bollocks grinds my gears, why should he carry on for one-day and 20/20? Just so he can get paid twice as much to bowl four overs in a day rather than forty!

Grr

[Worthy4England]

Kallis also suffered similar injuries to Flintoff, but adjusted his action and came back stronger and better.

If Flintoff had been more professional he could have been seen as better than he was. He had a good 2005, but other than that I can't remember many shining moments. He's no Botham.

Not quite no - but not far off - 2 points difference in their batting average and 4 points difference in their bowling...

I meant in more general terms. Botham was similar to Flintoff in that they are flawed characters, but Botham has become a shining example of how to use your fame to help others, can't see Flintoff doing anything like that when he knocks it on the head.

All this retirement bollocks grinds my gears, why should he carry on for one-day and 20/20? Just so he can get paid twice as much to bowl four overs in a day rather than forty!

Grr

Lol - most people would of course turn down the opportunity to work half the time at double the pay. I know I would....err probably

I think, remembering back to Botham in his day, he was probably way worse than than Freddie. The tales of his pi$$-ups, his very public fall out's with team members, the MCC, the opposition, his pot smoking etc., all were plentiful, as well as his affair while acting as a commentator.

He does seem to have had some sort of Damascus moment though later in life.