This is just not right!

[CrazyHorse]

Spent much time on the front line, then a1?

Tell us about how brave you were there.

We're all ears.

go ahead...

So basically you're saying a1 has no right to an opinion because he's not gone out there getting shot at himself. Right.

I trust of course that you've just got back from a call of duty in Afghanistan yourself then?

[Soldier_Of_The_White_Army]

I always try not to get involved in threads that are in any way personal to me, but I'd like to add my two penneth, as for some insane reason I keep clicking on this thread even after telling myself not to.

My opinion is that this guy makes me feel physically sick to my stomach, how fxcking dare he take it upon himself the embarrass the British army and the soldiers that serve within it! Not the mention those that have died fighting to represent their country's causes.

It simply goes down like this, when he came back from Afgan he obviously believed we was fighting for an unjust cause, SO WAY DIDN'T HE SIGN OFF? The option is there for any serving soldier. Sign off and get out, no dishonour, no disgrace. No, he still continued to keep the army's pay, and I believe (but not certain) is still doing so.

You don't get paid to march up and down and have a clean bunk, you get paid for your readiness to defence your country and to represent it in both it's foreign and domestic affairs.

Instead this fxcking balloon thinks he should be able to wear the green suit of Britain’s finest but should only be allowed to go to wars and conflicts he believes are just and right. What I load of complete bollocks! Gear on, grab your rifle and kiss the kids goodbye and tell them you'll see them in six months, your going in. Sounds shit, but no-one said the army was all waterslides and candyfloss.

The cause is for the Government and the British public to banter and debate over not the British soldier, we can all have our disbeliefs about conflicts and wars, and can sit in the NAAFI screaming "This is bullshit!" but when the order comes in, you crack on, get the job done and get home safe.

I read somewhere in this thread about 'following orders blindly'. There is a difference between some nutjob Sergeant telling you to run into bullets and a whole coalition giving the order to deploy.

The most frightening thing is the backlash this turd could have on the common British soldier if he wins, I'm sure I don't need to tell you all why.

Fxcking human rights wankers! They've done nothing but weaken our great and proud army and I've been in long enough to see the changes it's made. Jesus, you can't bollock a common wealth soldier for having his cock out on parade without having to answer to allegations of racism for challenging his civil rights to have his dick swinging in the wind!

On the other side of the coin, There is something to be said for re-deployments to the same conflict or war. I tell you now with no regret, if someone told me (especially with 2 years left) that I was going to deploy to Iraq, Kosovo, Sierra Leone or even Northern Ireland again, I'd seriously be very very worried. There is something quite superstitious about re-deploying back to somewhere you made it through, it's almost like your daring death to swing his scythe once more.



P.S. If I ever met this guy, I wouldn't say a word, I'd just knock him the fxck uncouncious and let him spend the rest of his life wondering why.



Twxt!

[Worthy4England]

I always try not to get involved in threads that are in any way personal to me, but I'd like to add my two penneth, as for some insane reason I keep clicking on this thread even after telling myself not to.

My opinion is that this guy makes me feel physically sick to my stomach, how fxcking dare he take it upon himself the embarrass the British army and the soldiers that serve within it! Not the mention those that have died fighting to represent their country's causes.

It simply goes down like this, when he came back from Afgan he obviously believed we was fighting for an unjust cause, SO WAY DIDN'T HE SIGN OFF? The option is there for any serving soldier. Sign off and get out, no dishonour, no disgrace. No, he still continued to keep the army's pay, and I believe (but not certain) is still doing so.

You don't get paid to march up and down and have a clean bunk, you get paid for your readiness to defence your country and to represent it in both it's foreign and domestic affairs.

Instead this fxcking balloon thinks he should be able to wear the green suit of Britain’s finest but should only be allowed to go to wars and conflicts he believes are just and right. What I load of complete bollocks! Gear on, grab your rifle and kiss the kids goodbye and tell them you'll see them in six months, your going in. Sounds shit, but no-one said the army was all waterslides and candyfloss.

The cause is for the Government and the British public to banter and debate over not the British soldier, we can all have our disbeliefs about conflicts and wars, and can sit in the NAAFI screaming "This is bullshit!" but when the order comes in, you crack on, get the job done and get home safe.

I read somewhere in this thread about 'following orders blindly'. There is a difference between some nutjob Sergeant telling you to run into bullets and a whole coalition giving the order to deploy.

The most frightening thing is the backlash this turd could have on the common British soldier if he wins, I'm sure I don't need to tell you all why.

Fxcking human rights wankers! They've done nothing but weaken our great and proud army and I've been in long enough to see the changes it's made. Jesus, you can't bollock a common wealth soldier for having his cock out on parade without having to answer to allegations of racism for challenging his civil rights to have his dick swinging in the wind!

On the other side of the coin, There is something to be said for re-deployments to the same conflict or war. I tell you now with no regret, if someone told me (especially with 2 years left) that I was going to deploy to Iraq, Kosovo, Sierra Leone or even Northern Ireland again, I'd seriously be very very worried. There is something quite superstitious about re-deploying back to somewhere you made it through, it's almost like your daring death to swing his scythe once more.



P.S. If I ever met this guy, I wouldn't say a word, I'd just knock him the fxck uncouncious and let him spend the rest of his life wondering why.



Twxt!

You, Sir, have my sincerest appreciation for the job that you do.

If it was down to half the folk on here, I'd probably be typing this in German.

[CAPSLOCK]

SOTWA - hats off

Makes me feel very humble

[seanworth]

Well put together post. I personally have no problem with him speaking out which I guess differs with yourself, but as you say, why is he still in the British Army. If it offends him so much, get the hell out and then bitch. He will at least then be bitching as a civilian.

[Bruno]

They've done nothing but weaken our great and proud army and I've been in long enough to see the changes it's made. Jesus, you can't bollock a common wealth soldier for having his cock out on parade without having to answer to allegations of racism for challenging his civil rights to have his dick swinging in the wind!

Where do I sign up

[CrazyHorse]

They've done nothing but weaken our great and proud army and I've been in long enough to see the changes it's made. Jesus, you can't bollock a common wealth soldier for having his cock out on parade without having to answer to allegations of racism for challenging his civil rights to have his dick swinging in the wind!

Where do I sign up

www.armyjobs.mod.uk

[CrazyHorse]

Oh, and what CAPS said.

[Worthy4England]

They've done nothing but weaken our great and proud army and I've been in long enough to see the changes it's made. Jesus, you can't bollock a common wealth soldier for having his cock out on parade without having to answer to allegations of racism for challenging his civil rights to have his dick swinging in the wind!

Where do I sign up

www.armyjobs.mod.uk

I'm off to start practising my German already....

[boltonboris]

Soldier, I've been patiently awaiting your response on this thread. I'm so glad you now have, what you typed was almost exactly what I was expecting albeit a little bluer!

[FD]

It's a job, it's a job that you know full well what you are getting into when you sign up.

If he didn't like it, he could have signed out. But instead, he continued pocketing a sizeable wage (if its anything like what my army mate brings home, for doing feck all, NEVER seeing ANY combat, doing less hours than me etc, then he'll be on a fair whack*).

Soldier is right to feel that way, and I feel sorry for people like him, hard done by cockend whingers like the guy in question. My old man took a few bullets during his service, he also saw quite a few friends die in combat, I'm sure he didn't agree with all the "politics" but it was his job to do it, and do it he did.

*I'm not saying its an easy ride in the army, but in some areas and with some "ill" people (sicknotes) it CAN be easy, yet they still earn a good wage. I was astonished what my mate told me he brings home, it doubled my wage yet he does a lot less, has a better pension and because of how unfit he is, he'll never see anything more dangerous than a computer. I do however believe it's an easier ride than it used to be, rightly or wrongly, although purely for the obvious PC reasons that we're all familiar with, human rights etc!

[William the White]

Looks like I'm in a tiny minority here.

Which may not be the first time...

My own feeling is that much human progress is often dependent on dissenters. And they are often met with disapproval. and sometimes much worse than that.

This soldier, it seems, is not taking the option of quietly getting out, as SOTWA suggests he could. In other words he's not taking the easy option available to him. He's doing something much riskier, much more difficult, and he's likely to have a much tougher time because of it.

I don't think he's intending to attack the army - it looks like he's attacking what he views as a totally supine attitude the government has towards the USA. Many would think that not very far from the truth.

a1 wants to shoot him for it. SOTWA wants to beat him into unconsciousness.

How is this a reasonable response to what he's actually doing - defying the government who sent him and his comrades to yet another war that it is difficult to see ever winning? For me, it isn't hard to see an argument that what he is doing is actually defending his mates who are, catastrophically, being maimed and killed in a futile war.

[Hoboh]

I started this thread because I thought no way is this bloke right to do what he is doing! As written earlier you could have some sympathy if folk were conscripted, heck I think most level headed people would in no way like to be in the places and conditions the army often finds its self in.
From the streets of NI with folk spitting in your face,throwing p*ss all over you, sniping from terraced house windows then legging it the length of the block through holes in adjoining walls, cars you pass and worry they may blow up to the bogs of the Falklands, the desserts of Iraq where everyone maybe your enemy or not (twice) parts of Africa with kid shooting at you drugged up to hell and now we have the arsehole of the world.
Most of this shit probably happened before this guy left school yet despite it he chose to join, he deserves everything he gets!

Hats off to you and your buddies Soldier, some of us back here do care!

[Lord Kangana]

The historical context for this is , I'm afraid Worthy et al (and apologies SOTWA, for obvious reasons), well in keeping with Britain/The U.K. and its historical stance as a peace loving democracy. We go to war when we absolutely have to, not because we can. The Americans differ significantly from ourselves (and much of Western Europe to boot) because they retained the large military structure post WW2 for various political and economic reasons.

We have to be careful what we wish for. We don't speak German for a whole variety of reasons, but it is disingenious to suggest its inspite of what this guy stands for. Otherwise, what would we have cared that Europe was conquered? Please think about that before replying, as hundreds of veteran testimonies I've read echo that point.

[Worthy4England]

The historical context for this is , I'm afraid Worthy et al (and apologies SOTWA, for obvious reasons), well in keeping with Britain/The U.K. and its historical stance as a peace loving democracy. We go to war when we absolutely have to, not because we can. The Americans differ significantly from ourselves (and much of Western Europe to boot) because they retained the large military structure post WW2 for various political and economic reasons.

We have to be careful what we wish for. We don't speak German for a whole variety of reasons, but it is disingenious to suggest its inspite of what this guy stands for. Otherwise, what would we have cared that Europe was conquered? Please think about that before replying, as hundreds of veteran testimonies I've read echo that point.

Good, something to go at on a quiet Monday morning - Thanks LK.

What are you rambling on about man? "The historical context...is well in keeping with UK and its stance as a peace loving democracy?" Complete tosh. How the hell do you think we got the "British Empire" to be the size that it was? By conscientiously objecting?

To your second point about not caring that Europe was conquered. You might not have and the people who wrote the hundreds of veteran testimonies that you've read might not have. I personally wouldn't have wanted to live in a post-war extended Germany under a regime that gassed people, burned the history books and bought us the wonders of the Gestapo. I suggest when you are reading stuff that supports your point, that you extend your careful research to other countries that actually got occupied and read some of their testimonies about how life was wonderful. Wonder if WTW can tell us how he'd teach Shakespeare when all the books had been burned.

Would I rather a world where we didn't have to go to war - certainly. Do I recognise that sometimes it's a tough choice - yes. Do I see that people get caught up in that who'd rather they were elsewhere (probably me amongst them), and probably a majority of them at that, when we're using conscription - of course I do. Does that make it right that we just accede to the demands of agressors - hell no.

I have no problem with the individual who kicked this debate off, being an objector to war. I have no issues with him demonstrating against it. I have complete and utter contempt for the tosspot doing so while he's a member of the armed forces.

[BWFC_Insane]

The historical context for this is , I'm afraid Worthy et al (and apologies SOTWA, for obvious reasons), well in keeping with Britain/The U.K. and its historical stance as a peace loving democracy. We go to war when we absolutely have to, not because we can. The Americans differ significantly from ourselves (and much of Western Europe to boot) because they retained the large military structure post WW2 for various political and economic reasons.

We have to be careful what we wish for. We don't speak German for a whole variety of reasons, but it is disingenious to suggest its inspite of what this guy stands for. Otherwise, what would we have cared that Europe was conquered? Please think about that before replying, as hundreds of veteran testimonies I've read echo that point.

Good, something to go at on a quiet Monday morning - Thanks LK.

What are you rambling on about man? "The historical context...is well in keeping with UK and its stance as a peace loving democracy?" Complete tosh. How the hell do you think we got the "British Empire" to be the size that it was? By conscientiously objecting?
To your second point about not caring that Europe was conquered. You might not have and the people who wrote the hundreds of veteran testimonies that you've read might not have. I personally wouldn't have wanted to live in a post-war extended Germany under a regime that gassed people, burned the history books and bought us the wonders of the Gestapo. I suggest when you are reading stuff that supports your point, that you extend your careful research to other countries that actually got occupied and read some of their testimonies about how life was wonderful. Wonder if WTW can tell us how he'd teach Shakespeare when all the books had been burned.

Would I rather a world where we didn't have to go to war - certainly. Do I recognise that sometimes it's a tough choice - yes. Do I see that people get caught up in that who'd rather they were elsewhere (probably me amongst them), and probably a majority of them at that, when we're using conscription - of course I do. Does that make it right that we just accede to the demands of agressors - hell no.

I have no problem with the individual who kicked this debate off, being an objector to war. I have no issues with him demonstrating against it. I have complete and utter contempt for the tosspot doing so while he's a member of the armed forces.

Shame a few more didn't as the world may well be a better place had the "empire" never existed!

[TANGODANCER]

The concept of war, in the main, is waste of lives needlessly. Like Worthy however, I believe in the fact that man doesn't always control his own destiny where it's concerned. That said, conscription died years ago, press-ganging even longer and nobody make people join the armed forces. It's their own choice entirely.

Govenments, not soldiers, are the perpetrators of wars, for whatever reason. The real problem with all this is that the young who join the armed forces may have false ideas of what it's all about. Dressing up in combat gear, armed to the teeth ala Arnold Schwatzeneger and killing the baddies is probably fine in the mind. The reality is a bit different and the only real maxim is "If you can't stand the heat, don't go in the kitchen. Unfortunately, at eighteen years old you think you can take on the world. The reality of shooting and being shot at is no comic book adventure but a life-threatening job and, when faced with that reality, some fail the test..Like Soldier says, they can always sign off. It's a job like any other and if you take the pay, you do the time.

Without the armed forces we'd all be very probably living under a jackboot regime and a lot of us wouldn't even be alive today. If you make a case for this guy, then you dishonour the memory of all those who died and also all those who still serve in the forces. You also lead the way for the possible disrupting of the forces in general as the support protest bandwaggon will roll out of control. "Inmates running the assylum" is spot on. If this guy feels like he does, then he should protest from the outside, after resigning, not from the inside while still taking the pay. I would suspect his army career is at an end now anyway.

[Worthy4England]

Shame a few more didn't as the world may well be a better place had the "empire" never existed!

In the realms of the purely hypothetical - correct, I agree.

Either way to suggest that we've "historically" been a pacifist country that only goes to war in the direst of circumstances I think is historically not true.

[TANGODANCER]

Shame a few more didn't as the world may well be a better place had the "empire" never existed!

If you read the history of it all I think you'll find it was much a case of "Do unto others before they do unto you" BW.

[Bruce Rioja]

The real problem with all this is that the young who join the armed forces may have false ideas of what it's all about. Dressing up in combat gear, armed to the teeth ala Arnold Schwatzeneger and killing the baddies

I've never read such utterly appalling patronising drivel in one sentence in the whole of my life.