The Politics Thread
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Panorama tonight was pretty depressing, that must be one of the worst of the worst estates in Britain I assume. Hope anyway.
http://www.twitter.com/dan_athers" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Thought this was a "Tory only" type of policy?
http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/article.aspx? ... =150453470
Long live the socialists
http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/article.aspx? ... =150453470
Long live the socialists
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knowing that programme tho , the "eggheads" wouldve got a question likeTANGODANCER wrote:What a laugh. On Eggheads tonight they played against a team of politicians: four Lib-Dem councilors and one Tory. One of the topics was politics. The politicians lost.
"what's missus thatchers first name?"
while the politicans wouldve got a question like
"who lived in 12 downing street in 1899 ?"
15 to 1 FTW
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So, the Shari'ah law march was called off yesterday.
As with that other video, I can't quite work out whether some of these people are nutjobs or satirical geniuses: http://islam4uk.com/non-muslims/364-buc ... he-shariah
As with that other video, I can't quite work out whether some of these people are nutjobs or satirical geniuses: http://islam4uk.com/non-muslims/364-buc ... he-shariah
Prufrock wrote: Like money hasn't always talked. You might not like it, or disagree, but it's the truth. It's a basic incentive, people always have, and always will want what's best for themselves and their families
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Article by Dave in the Times today. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/commen ... 919234.ece
I tend towards the Conservative side of the political spectrum, as some of you may be aware, but I have to say I am baffled by what appears to be one of the central pillars of their planned reform of education, which is expressed in this line:
At any rate, this isn't Sweden, and, for me, we'd be far better off reinstating support for grammar schools, a great vehicle for social mobility in the UK in the last 100 years, as well as the assisted places scheme to put intelligent kids who can't afford the fees through private schools (a scheme scrapped as an offering of red meat to the brainless left in the Labour Party back in 1997).
I was, however, impressed with Cameron's 'big society' speech last week - a promising collection of 'big ideas' that was a pleasing antidote the 'race to the bottom' nature of a lot of politics at the moment.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009 ... ety-speech
Ask not what your country can do for you, and all that...
I tend towards the Conservative side of the political spectrum, as some of you may be aware, but I have to say I am baffled by what appears to be one of the central pillars of their planned reform of education, which is expressed in this line:
Does anyone get this? Yes, parents might be willing to play the system and falsify addresses etc. to get their kids into good schools, but I can't see that there are many groups that are desperate to be helped along the way to setting up new schools (i.e. by giving the same amount per pupil as state schools are given). Who are these other people who might want to set up schools, bearing in mind that making a profit is not to be allowed (a major difference to the much-vaunted Swedish experience)?David Cameron wrote: This is where we would focus our most radical reforms. We have said we would bust open the supply of education so that any suitably qualified organisation could set up a new school anywhere they wished.
At any rate, this isn't Sweden, and, for me, we'd be far better off reinstating support for grammar schools, a great vehicle for social mobility in the UK in the last 100 years, as well as the assisted places scheme to put intelligent kids who can't afford the fees through private schools (a scheme scrapped as an offering of red meat to the brainless left in the Labour Party back in 1997).
I was, however, impressed with Cameron's 'big society' speech last week - a promising collection of 'big ideas' that was a pleasing antidote the 'race to the bottom' nature of a lot of politics at the moment.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009 ... ety-speech
Ask not what your country can do for you, and all that...
Prufrock wrote: Like money hasn't always talked. You might not like it, or disagree, but it's the truth. It's a basic incentive, people always have, and always will want what's best for themselves and their families
The argument exists that some of the groups setting up their own schools under Cambo policies are going to be Islamic/Sharia schools, leading to a religious/ethnic ghettoisation of education. Alternatively it'll lead to class stratification as small, private expensive schools are started by those at the wealthier end of the spectrum. On the one hand you could argue that this lessens the burden on state schools and reduces class sizes, or creates a bit of a dog's breakfast of state schools and small 'cottage' schools outside but with access to the system.
I don't think that model works, grammar schools might if the routes in at primary level were improved so that testing was re-designed with a clearer end product. Like an 11 plus over a longer period of assessment, instead of an hour.
As for the assisted places scheme, that's a nice utopian idea that I doubt works in practice - setting up the 'poor' private school kids for bullying - and wasn't it scrapped because olde Tory grandees didn't want lower class kids in the private school system?
I don't think that model works, grammar schools might if the routes in at primary level were improved so that testing was re-designed with a clearer end product. Like an 11 plus over a longer period of assessment, instead of an hour.
As for the assisted places scheme, that's a nice utopian idea that I doubt works in practice - setting up the 'poor' private school kids for bullying - and wasn't it scrapped because olde Tory grandees didn't want lower class kids in the private school system?
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Why the hell would anyone want grammar schools?
Why not concentrate on raising the overall school standard rather than creating flagships of any kind?
What we want is a country where education is placed right at the core and where people are encouraged to continue learning and developing throughout life in different ways, at different levels, and in a wider variety of disciplines.
What we don't want is the academic elite being separated and put on a pedestal to become the next set of academic elitist politicians in charge of the country but not really understanding the real issues.
When this country starts worrying about the average more than the academic elite, we might be in a position to actually develop a system that works for the majority.
And this is not reverse snobbery before anyone accuses me of that. I am educated beyond degree level and have enjoyed the benefits of being a part of the "academic elite". But that doesn't mean the system is right or producing the best overall standard it could!
Why not concentrate on raising the overall school standard rather than creating flagships of any kind?
What we want is a country where education is placed right at the core and where people are encouraged to continue learning and developing throughout life in different ways, at different levels, and in a wider variety of disciplines.
What we don't want is the academic elite being separated and put on a pedestal to become the next set of academic elitist politicians in charge of the country but not really understanding the real issues.
When this country starts worrying about the average more than the academic elite, we might be in a position to actually develop a system that works for the majority.
And this is not reverse snobbery before anyone accuses me of that. I am educated beyond degree level and have enjoyed the benefits of being a part of the "academic elite". But that doesn't mean the system is right or producing the best overall standard it could!
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It did work in practice. I used it.ratbert wrote:The argument exists that some of the groups setting up their own schools under Cambo policies are going to be Islamic/Sharia schools, leading to a religious/ethnic ghettoisation of education. Alternatively it'll lead to class stratification as small, private expensive schools are started by those at the wealthier end of the spectrum. On the one hand you could argue that this lessens the burden on state schools and reduces class sizes, or creates a bit of a dog's breakfast of state schools and small 'cottage' schools outside but with access to the system.
I don't think that model works, grammar schools might if the routes in at primary level were improved so that testing was re-designed with a clearer end product. Like an 11 plus over a longer period of assessment, instead of an hour.
As for the assisted places scheme, that's a nice utopian idea that I doubt works in practice - setting up the 'poor' private school kids for bullying - and wasn't it scrapped because olde Tory grandees didn't want lower class kids in the private school system?
And no. Labour scrapped it for some reason.
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The idea Cameron has, like most political thought over the last 30 years, is to devolve responsibility away from central government. The FSA gets blamed daily at the moment, PFI puts decision making (and accountability) one step removed from politicians, Ofcom/wat/whateverbolloxtheythinkupnext is all designed to deflect blame from our elected represenatives.
GNER is a wonderful example of this. We've heard nothing in the press of the bellend that took the decisions to give the franchise over to National Express, nor indeed which buffoon decided to privatise the railways, all we hear about is how the private companies running them provide a sh*t service. But of course they do, they're trying to make a profit from a public service, one that was run down for over a decade for yet another cheap sell off.
Why on earth people want us to pay politicians more when they have f*ck all left to do anymore is beyond me.
GNER is a wonderful example of this. We've heard nothing in the press of the bellend that took the decisions to give the franchise over to National Express, nor indeed which buffoon decided to privatise the railways, all we hear about is how the private companies running them provide a sh*t service. But of course they do, they're trying to make a profit from a public service, one that was run down for over a decade for yet another cheap sell off.
Why on earth people want us to pay politicians more when they have f*ck all left to do anymore is beyond me.
You can judge the whole world on the sparkle that you think it lacks.
Yes, you can stare into the abyss, but it's staring right back.
Yes, you can stare into the abyss, but it's staring right back.
people often claim to want this - and yet the same people whine like feck about "postcode lotteries" when a local PCT makes a local decision about allocation of resources that is different to the neighbouring one...Lord Kangana wrote:The idea Cameron has, like most political thought over the last 30 years, is to devolve responsibility away from central government.
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Because they work?BWFC_Insane wrote:Why the hell would anyone want grammar schools?
We need elites and should not be afraid of championing them.
Should you ever have the misfortune of appearing on a surgeon's table, Mr Insane, I am sure you will want the person staring down at you to be the member of an elite.
Prufrock wrote: Like money hasn't always talked. You might not like it, or disagree, but it's the truth. It's a basic incentive, people always have, and always will want what's best for themselves and their families
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8363702.stm
Im sure she speaks very highly of you as well.
Im sure she speaks very highly of you as well.
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Depends on which elite.mummywhycantieatcrayons wrote:Because they work?BWFC_Insane wrote:Why the hell would anyone want grammar schools?
We need elites and should not be afraid of championing them.
Should you ever have the misfortune of appearing on a surgeon's table, Mr Insane, I am sure you will want the person staring down at you to be the member of an elite.
I'd like them to be an intelligent, qualified, competent surgeon, not someone with wealthy parents that have put them through private school and them bought them a place at a posh university.
"People are crazy and times are strange
I’m locked in tight, I’m out of range
I used to care, but things have changed"
I’m locked in tight, I’m out of range
I used to care, but things have changed"
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Absolutely - couldn't agree more. But we shouldn't be afraid of making the case for the former kind, as a result of distaste for the latter.Puskas wrote:Depends on which elite.mummywhycantieatcrayons wrote:Because they work?BWFC_Insane wrote:Why the hell would anyone want grammar schools?
We need elites and should not be afraid of championing them.
Should you ever have the misfortune of appearing on a surgeon's table, Mr Insane, I am sure you will want the person staring down at you to be the member of an elite.
I'd like them to be an intelligent, qualified, competent surgeon, not someone with wealthy parents that have put them through private school and them bought them a place at a posh university.
(Incidentally, I'm not sure what a posh university is, and how places at these places can be bought, but perhaps that's another discussion.)
Prufrock wrote: Like money hasn't always talked. You might not like it, or disagree, but it's the truth. It's a basic incentive, people always have, and always will want what's best for themselves and their families
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So if you're trying to champion intellectual elites, how do grammar schools help?mummywhycantieatcrayons wrote:
Absolutely - couldn't agree more. But we shouldn't be afraid of making the case for the former kind, as a result of distaste for the latter.
(Incidentally, I'm not sure what a posh university is, and how places at these places can be bought, but perhaps that's another discussion.)
You're discarding children who, for one reason or another, fail an exam at the age of 11. This will generally favour richer kids, whose parents can afford to send them to "prep schools" where they're taught to pass these exams, rather than poorer (but possibly more intelligent kids) who are taught in state schools.
Also kids with less supportive parents (who, generally, will be from poorer backgrounds) will tend to be lost.
So you're creating an elite of the "latter kind".
"People are crazy and times are strange
I’m locked in tight, I’m out of range
I used to care, but things have changed"
I’m locked in tight, I’m out of range
I used to care, but things have changed"
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Yes but they are highly trained and specialised in a specific discipline.mummywhycantieatcrayons wrote:Because they work?BWFC_Insane wrote:Why the hell would anyone want grammar schools?
We need elites and should not be afraid of championing them.
Should you ever have the misfortune of appearing on a surgeon's table, Mr Insane, I am sure you will want the person staring down at you to be the member of an elite.
Have you ever met many surgeons? To suggest that they are all some "elite" super-intelligent bunch is inaccurate. I'm not even convinced that academic achievement up until say A-Levels is a good measure of the skills that are required to be a top surgeon.
I want a surgeon who is as good as possible at his job. I don't need him to be a literary genius or a member of mensa.
And furthermore why do I want or need a surgeon who has been to a "grammar school". Plenty of surgeons have come from the state school system and don't seem to suffer for it!
The problem I see with state schools is dumbing down to the lowest level instead of pushing up to the next.
If you are in a class with a couple of Hoodies and their hangers on who are disruptive what chance do you have of progressing when schools hardly have the tools to dicipline them?
Even expulsion is a dirty word now with the labour goverment determined to keep the little horrors some where they don't want to be.
If you are in a class with a couple of Hoodies and their hangers on who are disruptive what chance do you have of progressing when schools hardly have the tools to dicipline them?
Even expulsion is a dirty word now with the labour goverment determined to keep the little horrors some where they don't want to be.
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