Benitez .... prick

[jimbo]

Watching Gerrard in the tunnel, watching Fiorentina hold on....

Priceless.

Wish I had seen that rather than wandering round a piss wet through 5 aside pitch in Wavertree. Brought a smile to my face getting back in the car though!

[Prufrock]

On the bright side at least their houses are safe from thieves now.

[blurred]

On the bright side at least their houses are safe from thieves now.

Apart from the fact that we'll still be playing in the Europa League, though?

[Worthy4England]

On the bright side at least their houses are safe from thieves now.

Apart from the fact that we'll still be playing in the Europa League, though?

I'm sure the Club could fork out for additional security for one more round.

[BWFC_Insane]

On the bright side at least their houses are safe from thieves now.

Apart from the fact that we'll still be playing in the Europa League, though?

Nah they'll be safe. UEFA is Thursdays normally...giro day.
They'll all be smacked up.

[H. Pedersen]

On the bright side at least their houses are safe from thieves now.

Apart from the fact that we'll still be playing in the Europa League, though?

Nah they'll be safe. UEFA is Thursdays normally...giro day.
They'll all be smacked up.

[blurred]

3 points off 3rd... what an awful season we must be having

[jimbo]

3 points off 3rd... what an awful season we must be having

Or 8 off second and 13 off top. Throw into that being dumped out of the Champions League and League Cup and it doesn't look so great does it?

[blurred]

3 points off 3rd... what an awful season we must be having

Or 8 off second and 13 off top. Throw into that being dumped out of the Champions League and League Cup and it doesn't look so great does it?

Aye, we're really fussed about being out of the league cup. Yes, we're a distance off the top, and that's not ideal, but it's hardly the catastrophe people are making out, is it? People calling for the manager's head and other ridiculous suggestions.

As for the Champions League thing - let's have a little look at a comparison of Benitez and our other managers, post-Heysel.

Graeme Souness:

UEFA Cup 4th round, Cup Winners Cup 2nd round, Not in Europe

Roy Evans:

Not in Europe, UEFA Cup 2nd round, Cup Winners Cup semi final, UEFA Cup 2nd round

Gerard Houllier:

UEFA Cup 2nd round, Not in Europe, WON UEFA CUP, Champions League Quarter Final (lost to Leverkusen), UEFA Cup 5th round (lost to Celtic), UEFA Cup 4th round

Rafael Benitez:

WON CHAMPIONS LEAGUE, Champions League 1st knockout phase, Champions League Final, Champions League Semi Final, Champions League Quarter Final, Champions League Group Stage.

I think we might just cut him a bit of slack there, don't you think? Were United fans calling for Ferguson's head when they finished bottom of their group a few years ago?

[Worthy4England]

Usually when we say you've been shite for ages, you post some contrary stat to show how good you've been.

From this little collection, are you saying we were right all along?

[seanworth]

I agree Liverpool fans should cut him some slack. We are a small club so shouldn't really comment, but of the remainder of the big 4 clubs, those fans are almost unanimous in believing that Benitez should not be fired under any circumstances.

[blurred]

Usually when we say you've been shite for ages, you post some contrary stat to show how good you've been.

From this little collection, are you saying we were right all along?

I'm the one that's - point out where I've ever defended the reigns of Souness or Evans as being wonderful and amazing and I'll gladly eat my hat*. I watched some utter shite under them. Houllier did some right and some wrong, won us a few trophies, but went downhill towards the end. I watched some great stuff under him, but also some utter shite.

I think what you're possibly confusing is the fact that I pointed out that last season we topped the UEFA rankings for the best team in Europe, given our performance in the last 5 years of European competition, which is what they base it on. This will obviously change now we're losing Istanbul from that last 5 years, and will have a poor performance comparatively in the last two years. We've probably dropped to about 5th or so now. Shocking.

Ultimately, the point is for those that are saying Benitez should go and that failing to qualify from the Group Stages is a sacking offence, you need only look back to before his time as manager and you'll note that we qualified for the Champions League once since Heysel, whereas with him we've made two finals, won one, and qualified every year. The way everyone bangs on about a 'Big 4' you'd think we were like United and had been in the CL every year and at the top of the league since the start of the Premier League. Ok, I think 7th is the lowest we've finished, but still failed to qualify under each of our previous 3 managers.

* - I may or may not be wearing a hat. Terms and conditions apply.

[blurred]

I agree Liverpool fans should cut him some slack. We are a small club so shouldn't really comment, but of the remainder of the big 4 clubs, those fans are almost unanimous in believing that Benitez should not be fired under any circumstances.

The thing is, a large majority (perhaps even overwhelming) are doing exactly that. There've been the odd grumbles but almost all of this 'Benitez under fire' shite is media led, not terrace led. There's widespread discontent at the Reebok, much more so than at Anfield, but it sells more papers to try and conjur up some sort of story with us than it does reporting what's actually going on with you. Virtually every Liverpool fan I know wants Benitez to stay, but then 'Fans Back Manager' doesn't make a great story, really.

[hisroyalgingerness]

The meeja seem to have their knives out for him, that's clear for definite

[Tombwfc]

Being better than Evans and Souness is hardly LFC's ambition though is it?

At no point under Benitez have you ever looked remotely likely to win the title, and so questions will rightly be asked IMO.

[Village_Idiot2]

Being better than Evans and Souness is hardly LFC's ambition though is it?

At no point under Benitez have you ever looked remotely likely to win the title, and so questions will rightly be asked IMO.

Neither did they under Souness, Evans or Houllier, so it's not like Benítez has held them back. I can't stand Benítez for my own particular (and very petty) reasons, but he gets a lot of undeserved crap. He has made some mistakes (the lack of depth in their squad and lack of prospects to make up for it, his mid-range signings have been shocking) but they have made big progress under him and they were credible challengers last year. Liverpool was in danger of slipping to the level of the Spurs and Villas when he took over.

[blurred]

Being better than Evans and Souness is hardly LFC's ambition though is it?

At no point under Benitez have you ever looked remotely likely to win the title, and so questions will rightly be asked IMO.

At no point in the last 4/5 years have Arsenal looked like winning the title, so why not the same witch hunt over Wenger?

Benitez has come in and done a fantastic job at Liverpool and if you can't see that then you're either blinkered, biased or just a bit of a dick. His European and domestic record pisses over every manager since Dalglish, and ok we've not come particularly close to winning the title (last year apart) but there have been year on year improvements, which is about as much as you can ask for, realistically.

He's always going to struggle to win a league where our wage bill is dwarfed by other clubs (and if anyone's read the book 'Why England Lose' then you'll know where I'm coming from; if not, then off the top of my head it's something like 93% of success goes down to those with the highest wage bill), so unfortunately we're going to be one of those clubs whose 'ambition' such as it is is to come in the top 3/4 each year, because that's commensurate with where we should be finishing based on a number of factors (transfer spend, wage bill, etc). Occasionally we'll overperform, like last year (when we really threw away our best chance to win the league in nearly 20 years), and sometimes we'll underperform, but to be honest I can't see anyone coming in and doing a markedly better job than Rafa has done and is continuing to do.

Also, who'd be mad enough to want to come to Liverpool with the finances and boardroom in the state they are at the minute? Having to sell to buy, no real money to spend, debt repayments coming out of our ears, unclear direction from the owners...

[blurred]

Neither did they under Souness, Evans or Houllier, so it's not like Benítez has held them back. I can't stand Benítez for my own particular (and very petty) reasons, but he gets a lot of undeserved crap. He has made some mistakes (the lack of depth in their squad and lack of prospects to make up for it, his mid-range signings have been shocking) but they have made big progress under him and they were credible challengers last year. Liverpool was in danger of slipping to the level of the Spurs and Villas when he took over.

I'd like to know which signings you'd say are 'shocking'? Yes, there's a problem with depth to the squad, but then our finances have pretty much dictated that - the fact that we couldn't afford the £4m that Sunderland paid for Dawson when we were interested pretty much shows how much we're scrabbling around to get players in (relying on bargain basement Nick the Greek instead). He's had to completely overhaul the youth set-up which just wasn't producing anything like the sort of players that we'd want, so unfortunately that'll take a bit of time to start bearing some fruit.

Not that he's beyond criticism, of course, because I don't agree with everything he's done and all of the decisions he makes, but then I kind of accept that he's forgotten more about football than I'll ever know, sees the players day in and day out and has set ideas about how he wants to do things that we're not necessarily party to. Selling Keane could be seen as a mistake, but then who's to know what would've happened in the summer if he'd kept him - ok, we may have won the league (I doubt it, as his performances weren't exactly setting the world alight from Aug-Dec), but given that with Keane's sale included in our transfer spending we still only broke even, something would've had to have given in the summer - Arbeloa and Alonso buggering off was inevitable, but without the money from Keane's sale, we could only have replaced one of them.

[bobo the clown]

He's still a prick though.

[CAPSLOCK]

Neither did they under Souness, Evans or Houllier, so it's not like Benítez has held them back. I can't stand Benítez for my own particular (and very petty) reasons, but he gets a lot of undeserved crap. He has made some mistakes (the lack of depth in their squad and lack of prospects to make up for it, his mid-range signings have been shocking) but they have made big progress under him and they were credible challengers last year. Liverpool was in danger of slipping to the level of the Spurs and Villas when he took over.

I'd like to know which signings you'd say are 'shocking'? Yes, there's a problem with depth to the squad, but then our finances have pretty much dictated that - the fact that we couldn't afford the £4m that Sunderland paid for Dawson when we were interested pretty much shows how much we're scrabbling around to get players in (relying on bargain basement Nick the Greek instead). He's had to completely overhaul the youth set-up which just wasn't producing anything like the sort of players that we'd want, so unfortunately that'll take a bit of time to start bearing some fruit.

Not that he's beyond criticism, of course, because I don't agree with everything he's done and all of the decisions he makes, but then I kind of accept that he's forgotten more about football than I'll ever know, sees the players day in and day out and has set ideas about how he wants to do things that we're not necessarily party to. Selling Keane could be seen as a mistake, but then who's to know what would've happened in the summer if he'd kept him - ok, we may have won the league (I doubt it, as his performances weren't exactly setting the world alight from Aug-Dec), but given that with Keane's sale included in our transfer spending we still only broke even, something would've had to have given in the summer - Arbeloa and Alonso buggering off was inevitable, but without the money from Keane's sale, we could only have replaced one of them.

And why was that?