Portsmouth AGAIN

[Puskas]

Well the good news is that I've just asked the bookie and they'll pay out on relegation if Pompey go out of business

The other good news is, its a horrible place, a long journey and a hell hole of a ground so with a bit of luck we'll never have to go there again!

I like it.

Proper ground (much improved by the addition of a roof on the away end...) and a decent, fairly straightforward journey.

Assuming you live in London.

If they do go bust (as opposed to into administration) and can't complete their fixtures, it means we lose the three points we got down there, doesn't it?

[bobo the clown]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... visit.html

And this has finally been confirmed, naughty boy

Yep ... it never rains, but it pours ...

The Premiership manager caught by a tabloid reporter visiting a brothel has been revealed as Portsmouth manager Israeli Avram Grant.

Father-of-two Mr Grant, 54, was pictured leaving a “massage parlour” near Portsmouth’s training ground, on an industrial estate near the village of Horton Heath, where prostitutes allegedly charge £130-an-hour.

Mr Grant, who has been married to Israeli television personality Tzofit for 16 years, admitted to The Sun reporter that he knew the place was a massage parlour, but the paper has been unable to print his identity due to privacy laws.

Today, however, the Daily Telegraph revealed his identity in the wake of the landmark ruling by Mr Justice Tugendhat last week. It removed an injunction on newspapers over the affair of Chelsea and England captain John Terry with the ex-girlfriend of fellow England star Wayne Bridge.

Mr Grant’s name had been widely circulated on the internet in connection with the article and police said they were now investigating the brothel.

A spokesman for Hampshire Police said: “We are aware of certain allegations that have been made in connection with that location. There is nothing to evidence the allegations at the moment.”

Israeli-born Mr Grant, who used to manage Chelsea, reportedly declined to answer questions about the brothel visit which were put to him via his solicitor this week

.
Given that Portsmouth council have refused "change of use" permission for the land round the ground, this line, in particular, amused me ...

a “massage parlour” near Portsmouth’s training ground, on an industrial estate near the village of Horton Heath,

I wonder if they applied for it, too ??

[BWFC_Insane]

Well the good news is that I've just asked the bookie and they'll pay out on relegation if Pompey go out of business

The other good news is, its a horrible place, a long journey and a hell hole of a ground so with a bit of luck we'll never have to go there again!

I like it.

Proper ground (much improved by the addition of a roof on the away end...) and a decent, fairly straightforward journey.

Assuming you live in London.

If they do go bust (as opposed to into administration) and can't complete their fixtures, it means we lose the three points we got down there, doesn't it?

I don't live in London.

And I've been several times before the roof. And it was shite (apart from the day we got into Europe that was pretty good).

And since the roof its still shite.

Best ground is white hart lane. Traditional but still nice enough inside!

[Hoboh]

Protected by who though? My understanding its Gaydamak. Can't imagine the local council standing in the way if he sats "The ground or the club. Your choice". Cos I bet he will if they stop him.

The council who have apparently said this week they will not permit a change of use for the land and hence not grant planning permission for any development.

If that was the case I'd bulldoze the ground and leave a friggin' eyesore in its place!

[boltonboris]

Protected by who though? My understanding its Gaydamak. Can't imagine the local council standing in the way if he sats "The ground or the club. Your choice". Cos I bet he will if they stop him.

The council who have apparently said this week they will not permit a change of use for the land and hence not grant planning permission for any development.

So a 'Cash Converter' megastore, could be built?

[Tombwfc]

So this fella, who was Arcadi Gaydamak's business partner until he sued him for £14mil, has now put a similar amount into a football club who owe Gaydamak's son an absolute shitload?

Clear. As. Mud.

Least Chainrai definately exists, that's a step in the right direction.

[William the White]

Just to say... in all this mess I feel really sorry for the Portsmouth supporters who must be in despair...

A club our size in a town our size... Who must have been so full of joy when they won the cup two years ago... but, before that wonderful event...

Like us a minor history of trophies more than 50 years ago - though they managed two top div trophies while we made do with cups... An away support that is often seriously impressive...

It's a vain hope, but I would like none of us to join the sneers if they, debt laden, a pawn passed around a bunch of money-hunting bastards, go down, or, even worse, one of the seriously significant clubs of English football, be forced into liquidation...

Guys... potentially this is us... Every single year we've been in the richest League in the world our debt has gone up... I feel no club is in safe hands, all are spending and risking all on the gamble they are not one of the bottom three... and every million they spend to avoid the catastrohe increases the profundity of the catastrophe should it happen, and the appalling debt of all those that just avoided it...

The madness of it all, I sense, is now starting to strike people... I hope so...

This I know - Portsmouth are proper football. I wish them well. They don't deserve this.

[Tombwfc]

I don't know, I just don't have it in me to feel sorry for them. Fans, maybe, not the club. I'm just too bitter.

They effectively cheated by buying players who they couldn't afford (and in some cases, still haven't paid for) and won the FA Cup because of it. Meanwhile, us and plenty of other teams have been operating in a manner which is financially more sustainable, and we've lost out because of the unfair advantage they gained by ridiculous overspending.

Gab Marcotti wrote an article on it here - http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/ ... 974596.ece

I don't wish bankruptcy on them, but I think going down and having to rebuild is a fair enough punishment.

[BWFC_Insane]

I don't know, I just don't have it in me to feel sorry for them. Fans, maybe, not the club. I'm just too bitter.

They effectively cheated by buying players who they couldn't afford (and in some cases, still haven't paid for) and won the FA Cup because of it. Meanwhile, us and plenty of other teams have been operating in a manner which is financially more sustainable, and we've lost out because of the unfair advantage they gained by ridiculous overspending.

Gab Marcotti wrote an article on it here - http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/ ... 974596.ece

I don't wish bankruptcy on them, but I think going down and having to rebuild is a fair enough punishment.

This.

And I find it distasteful that a) they haven't gone into administration yet, considering the situation where other clubs in lower leagues would have been forced into it long ago.

b) They are still allowed to sign players on loan when they haven't paid their debts, their players or their staff. Ridiculous.

They have as Tom says effectively cheated to win a trophy whereas Bolton have only spent what we could afford and budget for.

As PG has said our debt is all owed or the majority of it to Eddie Davies as opposed to banks, and we spend in relation to what the club/Davies can budget for.

We're not like Portsmouth in anyway. When our manager asked for a lot of money midway through a season to take us into the "top 4" we said no on the basis we couldn't afford it.

As I said before all the trouble at Pompey is certainly not worth one good day and an FA cup final win, no matter what memories, or history it may create.

Football clubs now have to prioritise their long term futures ahead of trying for short term trophies/success!

[Lord Kangana]

So effectively what you're saying is that we're lucky that someone will bankroll our overspending, whereas no-one will for them. Its clear that the Premier League model is unsustainable, and I include ourselves in that.

[Worthy4England]

So effectively what you're saying is that we're lucky that someone will bankroll our overspending, whereas no-one will for them. Its clear that the Premier League model is unsustainable, and I include ourselves in that.

I agree LK.

The whole thing is flawed. ANY club that is relying on serious funding from non-football activities is open to this occurring.

If Eddie Davies asked for what he's due this year, we'd be as fooked as Portsmouth.

[BWFC_Insane]

So effectively what you're saying is that we're lucky that someone will bankroll our overspending, whereas no-one will for them. Its clear that the Premier League model is unsustainable, and I include ourselves in that.

I wouldn't disagree with that, but we haven't spent anything like the kind of money they have and I assume their turnover is not too different from ours.

The only thing I'd say is folk have been bankrolling clubs for a long time well before the premiership started its just now the amounts are more significant and the penalties for things going wrong more severe.

[Puskas]

I don't know, I just don't have it in me to feel sorry for them. Fans, maybe, not the club. I'm just too bitter.

They effectively cheated by buying players who they couldn't afford (and in some cases, still haven't paid for) and won the FA Cup because of it. Meanwhile, us and plenty of other teams have been operating in a manner which is financially more sustainable, and we've lost out because of the unfair advantage they gained by ridiculous overspending.

Gab Marcotti wrote an article on it here - http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/ ... 974596.ece

I don't wish bankruptcy on them, but I think going down and having to rebuild is a fair enough punishment.

This.

And I find it distasteful that a) they haven't gone into administration yet, considering the situation where other clubs in lower leagues would have been forced into it long ago.

b) They are still allowed to sign players on loan when they haven't paid their debts, their players or their staff. Ridiculous.

They have as Tom says effectively cheated to win a trophy whereas Bolton have only spent what we could afford and budget for.

As PG has said our debt is all owed or the majority of it to Eddie Davies as opposed to banks, and we spend in relation to what the club/Davies can budget for.

We're not like Portsmouth in anyway. When our manager asked for a lot of money midway through a season to take us into the "top 4" we said no on the basis we couldn't afford it.

As I said before all the trouble at Pompey is certainly not worth one good day and an FA cup final win, no matter what memories, or history it may create.

Football clubs now have to prioritise their long term futures ahead of trying for short term trophies/success!

I can't agree with this - specifically the idea that buying yourself a trophy is cheating. It's the very principle on which the Premier League was founded. Everyone who's won it has bought it. Punishing Portsmouth for buying the FA Cup whilst letting Man United off free (indeed, praised) for buying almost every Premier League title for the last ten years is the rankest hypocrisy.

[Worthy4England]

So effectively what you're saying is that we're lucky that someone will bankroll our overspending, whereas no-one will for them. Its clear that the Premier League model is unsustainable, and I include ourselves in that.

I wouldn't disagree with that, but we haven't spent anything like the kind of money they have and I assume their turnover is not too different from ours.

The only thing I'd say is folk have been bankrolling clubs for a long time well before the premiership started its just now the amounts are more significant and the penalties for things going wrong more severe.

Not really the point. If Eddie said we could, we would. It only becomes a problem if Eddie walks away. If he did so now and demanded ontime repayments from Burndem Leisure to Moonshift, we'd be bankrupt.

You're arguing around shades of the same problem.

[BWFC_Insane]

So effectively what you're saying is that we're lucky that someone will bankroll our overspending, whereas no-one will for them. Its clear that the Premier League model is unsustainable, and I include ourselves in that.

I wouldn't disagree with that, but we haven't spent anything like the kind of money they have and I assume their turnover is not too different from ours.

The only thing I'd say is folk have been bankrolling clubs for a long time well before the premiership started its just now the amounts are more significant and the penalties for things going wrong more severe.

Not really the point. If Eddie said we could, we would. It only becomes a problem if Eddie walks away. If he did so now and demanded ontime repayments from Burndem Leisure to Moonshift, we'd be bankrupt.

You're arguing around shades of the same problem.

Yes but Portsmouth owed a lot of money directly to banks, whereas ours is owed to a benefactor, and by the sounds of it a far more stable one than the multitude who have been "guaranteeing loans" at Portsmouth!

[FD]

And I find it distasteful that a) they haven't gone into administration yet, considering the situation where other clubs in lower leagues would have been forced into it long ago.

b) They are still allowed to sign players on loan when they haven't paid their debts, their players or their staff. Ridiculous.

I find the entire situation very very odd.

How are they still operating? Why didn't the PFA step in and tell the players who were unpaid for the fourth (at least) time to "go on strike" or demand a contract termination. Even Nugent at Burnley isn't getting paid, something to do with Burnley paying out via insurance or something?

It's insane, there's more to it than is being made public.

Having their transfer embargo lifted though, that was a joke and shows just how little all this "fit and proper" nonsense is, football is corrupt to the very core, but we all knew that.

[Worthy4England]

So effectively what you're saying is that we're lucky that someone will bankroll our overspending, whereas no-one will for them. Its clear that the Premier League model is unsustainable, and I include ourselves in that.

I wouldn't disagree with that, but we haven't spent anything like the kind of money they have and I assume their turnover is not too different from ours.

The only thing I'd say is folk have been bankrolling clubs for a long time well before the premiership started its just now the amounts are more significant and the penalties for things going wrong more severe.

Not really the point. If Eddie said we could, we would. It only becomes a problem if Eddie walks away. If he did so now and demanded ontime repayments from Burndem Leisure to Moonshift, we'd be bankrupt.

You're arguing around shades of the same problem.

Yes but Portsmouth owed a lot of money directly to banks, whereas ours is owed to a benefactor, and by the sounds of it a far more stable one than the multitude who have been "guaranteeing loans" at Portsmouth!

Correct. but that doesn't make us a "well run business" which is why when football clubs were turning themselves into PLC's it didn't work. It might make us a comparitively well run football club, which is a different thing altogether. Do we have any contractual guarantees that should Eddie Davies walk away, we wouldn't be left with an insurmountable debt mountain? Or that he couldn't call in his debt in short measure?

Either way, our business model without Eddie Davies is no more stable than Portsmouth's without their various sources of finance. As is noted in our most recent Accounts and I suspect is one of the reasons that Gartside has been pressing for changes in funding structure.

[BWFC_Insane]

So effectively what you're saying is that we're lucky that someone will bankroll our overspending, whereas no-one will for them. Its clear that the Premier League model is unsustainable, and I include ourselves in that.

I wouldn't disagree with that, but we haven't spent anything like the kind of money they have and I assume their turnover is not too different from ours.

The only thing I'd say is folk have been bankrolling clubs for a long time well before the premiership started its just now the amounts are more significant and the penalties for things going wrong more severe.

Not really the point. If Eddie said we could, we would. It only becomes a problem if Eddie walks away. If he did so now and demanded ontime repayments from Burndem Leisure to Moonshift, we'd be bankrupt.

You're arguing around shades of the same problem.

Yes but Portsmouth owed a lot of money directly to banks, whereas ours is owed to a benefactor, and by the sounds of it a far more stable one than the multitude who have been "guaranteeing loans" at Portsmouth!

Correct. but that doesn't make us a "well run business" which is why when football clubs were turning themselves into PLC's it didn't work. It might make us a comparitively well run football club, which is a different thing altogether. Do we have any contractual guarantees that should Eddie Davies walk away, we wouldn't be left with an insurmountable debt mountain? Or that he couldn't call in his debt in short measure?

Either way, our business model without Eddie Davies is no more stable than Portsmouth's without their various sources of finance. As is noted in our most recent Accounts and I suspect is one of the reasons that Gartside has been pressing for changes in funding structure.

Agree entirely but in terms of how well run we are as a "football club", its impossible to have achieved what we have in relation to our size and not have some debt, certainly in the English game.

I suppose its about the balance. Settle for yo-yo club status and never strive to stay in the premiership really like West Brom or take the plunge like we have.

The Man Utds, Liverpools, etc are in exactly the same sort of boat we are, just to a different degree but then with bigger assets!

[Worthy4England]

Agree entirely but in terms of how well run we are as a "football club", its impossible to have achieved what we have in relation to our size and not have some debt, certainly in the English game.

I suppose its about the balance. Settle for yo-yo club status and never strive to stay in the premiership really like West Brom or take the plunge like we have.

The Man Utds, Liverpools, etc are in exactly the same sort of boat we are, just to a different degree but then with bigger assets!

Yes but that's the whole point. Pompey went balls out and "bought" an FA Cup win, we're going a little more cautiously and just buying the annual Club Membership.

The principle is no different, just the extent changes.

If you don't feel sorry for Pompey, then I wouldn't expect anyone to feel sorry for us.

[BWFC_Insane]

Agree entirely but in terms of how well run we are as a "football club", its impossible to have achieved what we have in relation to our size and not have some debt, certainly in the English game.

I suppose its about the balance. Settle for yo-yo club status and never strive to stay in the premiership really like West Brom or take the plunge like we have.

The Man Utds, Liverpools, etc are in exactly the same sort of boat we are, just to a different degree but then with bigger assets!

Yes but that's the whole point. Pompey went balls out and "bought" an FA Cup win, we're going a little more cautiously and just buying the annual Club Membership.

The principle is no different, just the extent changes.

If you don't feel sorry for Pompey, then I would expect anyone to feel sorry for us.

But I'd say that we've done what we've had to do to get by in this new Premiership top 4, money dominated world.
Whereas Pompey have shown no regard to anything other than the short term boom and have suffered for it. Spending all that money to "win a trophy" is totally irresponsible. At least staying in the premiership has a fiscal reward that makes the gamble somewhat understandable.

Of course its all about the "extent" as is everything in life, but thats where judgement, common sense and prudence comes to play.

Portsmouth have benefitted from players they haven't paid for, nor paid on time several times. This to me is cheating and why I don't feel particularly sorry for the club. The fans of course I feel incredibly sorry for!