Today I'm angry about.....

[Worthy4England]

Do you recall? Can't have been very old in 1981...

Having listened to the speech, it certainly isn't funny nor strange, his intent was crystal clear. After decimating employment in certain areas of the country which was one factor attributed to the rioting at the time he pointed out that people shouldn't be rioting (as his father hadn't - he just got on his bike and found work). It was a case of "tough shit - no work near you, you go to the work" - the passage of time shouldn't detract from the fact that, that's exactly what he meant.

I'm familiar with the story, in the same way I'm familiar with the story of what Thatcher said when "there is no such thing as society" is all that is remembered.

Anyway, are you saying his actual message (which did not suggest any particular mode of transport) was unwise? How many people on this board have moved out of Bolton for reasons of employment?

It's a bit like the "watching Bolton by internet stream" conversations, Mummy. Reading about it etc. doesn't necessarily convey all the things that were going on at the time which when combined with the words just made him come across to many as a complete cnut.

His actual message was - "I don't actually care that unemployment is running at 30%-50% in your particular area - tough - if you get off your arse, you'll find work" - which given unemployment had headed up towards 10% nationally for the first time in 40-odd years (hence the UB40 song "Number one in ten") - and he was Employment Secretary at the time was a bit fcuking rich.

I have no notion of how many people have moved out of Bolton for reasons of employment and certainly "things" have changed - not many people work in the factory down the road etc. nowadays.

[Worthy4England]

I don't have a particular problem paying more in income tax/NI to ensure there's a decent Health Service. That said, there's places I'd look first to make economies. More Doctors and Nurses, less admin, NHS Trust Directors etc.

Sure, I agree with the sentiment - I don't think that all the 'extra investment' that this Government's representatives never tire of boasting of in terms of the amount of money spent has generated proportionate improvement in health services either.

Cycling at your age may be an option Mummy, for many it isn't, but I bow to your green ethic, although the Tebbitism is quite funny.

And I went out of my way to say that it was unlikely to be an option for many! I only mentioned it because it's what I happened to do, as a cycling student in a cycling students' city.

Funny that people should mention Tebbit, because his words were twisted too, if I recall, in that he didn't actually make any such "get on your bike" suggestion, but rather merely reported that that's what his father had done!

Do you recall? Can't have been very old in 1981...

Having listened to the speech, it certainly isn't funny nor strange, his intent was crystal clear. After decimating employment in certain areas of the country which was one factor attributed to the rioting at the time he pointed out that people shouldn't be rioting (as his father hadn't - he just got on his bike and found work). It was a case of "tough shit - no work near you, you go to the work" - the passage of time shouldn't detract from the fact that, that's exactly what he meant.

Ah can you explain what this "Social mobility" the lefties keep banging on about in their drive for education means then if not a posh way of saying "on your bike" please Mr Worthy?

Indeed - it's sod all to do with travelling anywhere.

Look it up and have another go...

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

It's a bit like the "watching Bolton by internet stream" conversations, Mummy. Reading about it etc. doesn't necessarily convey all the things that were going on at the time which when combined with the words just made him come across to many as a complete cnut.

His actual message was - "I don't actually care that unemployment is running at 30%-50% in your particular area - tough - if you get off your arse, you'll find work" - which given unemployment had headed up towards 10% nationally for the first time in 40-odd years (hence the UB40 song "Number one in ten") - and he was Employment Secretary at the time was a bit fcuking rich.

I have no notion of how many people have moved out of Bolton for reasons of employment and certainly "things" have changed - not many people work in the factory down the road etc. nowadays.

I understand that Tebbit et al. came across as smug and uncaring - the Conservatives have been unelectable for 10 years because of it.

BUT... it doesn't seem altogether unreasonable to me to suggest to people who are out of work that they might consider looking for work somewhere other than where they live, and moving if they find it. This process of adapting to the changing structure of the economy and the flexibility of our workforce seem to me to have been quite important in the growth our economy has enjoyed in the period since 1981.

[Hoboh]

I don't have a particular problem paying more in income tax/NI to ensure there's a decent Health Service. That said, there's places I'd look first to make economies. More Doctors and Nurses, less admin, NHS Trust Directors etc.

Sure, I agree with the sentiment - I don't think that all the 'extra investment' that this Government's representatives never tire of boasting of in terms of the amount of money spent has generated proportionate improvement in health services either.

Cycling at your age may be an option Mummy, for many it isn't, but I bow to your green ethic, although the Tebbitism is quite funny.

And I went out of my way to say that it was unlikely to be an option for many! I only mentioned it because it's what I happened to do, as a cycling student in a cycling students' city.

Funny that people should mention Tebbit, because his words were twisted too, if I recall, in that he didn't actually make any such "get on your bike" suggestion, but rather merely reported that that's what his father had done!

Do you recall? Can't have been very old in 1981...

Having listened to the speech, it certainly isn't funny nor strange, his intent was crystal clear. After decimating employment in certain areas of the country which was one factor attributed to the rioting at the time he pointed out that people shouldn't be rioting (as his father hadn't - he just got on his bike and found work). It was a case of "tough shit - no work near you, you go to the work" - the passage of time shouldn't detract from the fact that, that's exactly what he meant.

Ah can you explain what this "Social mobility" the lefties keep banging on about in their drive for education means then if not a posh way of saying "on your bike" please Mr Worthy?

Indeed - it's sod all to do with travelling anywhere.

Look it up and have another go...

You mean except up the ladder Labour brag about wanting to remove

AND you bit!!!!

[CAPSLOCK]

Today I'm beside myself with rage at yet another case that the bleeding heart liberals will jump up to defend,

THE BRITISH FRITZEL!!!

There is no evil in the world just poor misunderstood folk!! This is one sad case really sad, but hey ho take heart we can all share the burden of the cost of keeping this bloke on top of all the enquiries and picking up the pieces of what he's already done!

This country cannot get any lower can it?

Hobo's law it will work!

What makes you think he knew what he was doing.......

[ohjimmyjimmy]

I've issued a memo to all my friends and family not to have accidents, collapse, die, choke on anything or generally get taken into hospital during peak visiting hours, saying that their cooperation in this matter would be most appreciated.

So, it's sorted

[KeeeeeeeBaaaaaaab]

The smell of singed hair.

For some reason, after cooking breakfast, there seems to be a lingering stench of burnt hair. Some going for a baldy. Must be my arm hairs.

I'm now sniffing my arms for any location, without luck.

It's not the mystery of where it's from that's making me the most angry. It's just a disgusting smell.

[bobo the clown]

The smell of singed hair.

For some reason, after cooking breakfast, there seems to be a lingering stench of burnt hair. Some going for a baldy. Must be my arm hairs.

I'm now sniffing my arms for any location, without luck.

It's not the mystery of where it's from that's making me the most angry. It's just a disgusting smell.

Sounds like someone in the house is shaving their pubes by the cooker.

Look .... where I lived as a student stranger things than that happened, I assure you !!!

[Wandering Willy]

The smell of singed hair.

For some reason, after cooking breakfast, there seems to be a lingering stench of burnt hair. Some going for a baldy. Must be my arm hairs.

I'm now sniffing my arms for any location, without luck.

It's not the mystery of where it's from that's making me the most angry. It's just a disgusting smell.

Pig hair on the bacon rind.

[Worthy4England]

I understand that Tebbit et al. came across as smug and uncaring - the Conservatives have been unelectable for 10 years because of it.

BUT... it doesn't seem altogether unreasonable to me to suggest to people who are out of work that they might consider looking for work somewhere other than where they live, and moving if they find it. This process of adapting to the changing structure of the economy and the flexibility of our workforce seem to me to have been quite important in the growth our economy has enjoyed in the period since 1981.

Had it been explained in a different way - such as the one that you suggest, it may have softened the blow. It wasn't - Stormin Norman wanted to come across as some sort of Tory party war hero.

There are plenty of other factors involved such as the demographic one. Some communities with large manufacturing bases had really high unemployment levels where there were whole neighbourhoods with no-one able to get a job, as those industries shut down one after another. The premise that they should move predominantly "Down South" where there wasn't the housing stock available and what was available was out of the price range of many (the housing market was booming in the South East etc.) was actually not managed at all and left largely to chance. There was no plan to safety net anything. We just pursued policy which moved us from manufacturing base to a services base in a completely arbitrary manner, as part of the boom and bust miracle.

Another factor is around supression of inflation (generally a good thing to do). When you look at unemployment levels through the Tory years, it's not beyond the bounds of possibility - and was suggested on more than one occasion - that they actually didn't mind historically high levels of unemployment as the Labour market is then plentiful, there was no minimum wage and therefore market forces determine what is a supressed market rate for a particular job which is then lower than it may need to be when the labour market is stretched and competition for jobs isn't as great. That's a really great idea, if and only if, the standard of living in the UK is comparable to the standard of living you're trying to drive to from wage restraint, which it wasn't. If any historical records come out to suggest this was unofficially part of policy, the perpetrators should never be forgiven.

[Worthy4England]

You mean except up the ladder Labour brag about wanting to remove

AND you bit!!!!

No, they're trying to remove the ladder so it's a level playing field. Eejet.

AND you still don't understand!!!!

Stop reading the Sun.

[thebish]

Telegraph...

Charges for parking while visiting family and friends who are in hospital will be scrapped within three years, Andy Burnham the Health Secretary has said. Mr Burnham announced that in-patients will be given a parking permit to last for the duration of their stay in hospital which they can give to family and friends to put in their car windscreens during visits.

Hospitals can earn up to around £2 million a year from charging for parking spaces and some commentators warned that scrapping the fees will hit the NHS at a time when budgets are being cut and £15 billion to £20 billion of savings are being demanded.

The move was welcomed by campaigners who have called the charges a 'tax on the sick' but they were disappointed that outpatients will still be charged.

so - if you want them to be scrapped - vote labour!

I see... so the charges have either originated or prevailed during Labour's ten years in office, but a promise made by the current Health Sec in the run-up to an election to scrap them (for in-patients only) within the next three years (a healthy way into the future, and certainly after any election) is a reason to vote Labour now?!

in a word - yes! what's Cameron's timetable for sorting it out?

[thebish]

Today I'm beside myself with rage at yet another case that the bleeding heart liberals will jump up to defend,

THE BRITISH FRITZEL!!!

There is no evil in the world just poor misunderstood folk!! This is one sad case really sad, but hey ho take heart we can all share the burden of the cost of keeping this bloke on top of all the enquiries and picking up the pieces of what he's already done!

This country cannot get any lower can it?

Hobo's law it will work!

hmmm.... is there or isn't there hobo? you once said there IS a dark malevolent force at work in the world - but then said you didn't believe in the supernatural... so - your sarcasm doesn't actually make your own position clear at all...

"poor misunderstood folk" is not the only alternative to positing the existence of "evil"

[superjohnmcginlay]

He could have just said there's a lot of c*nts out there.

[as]

When junior was born I had a trip to the hospital, I ventured outside to accelerate my lung cancer, and saw the massive chap from next door in the K2 ward

Not a political post, obviously, but I did think myself lucky for screaming at him the week before, when he'd woke me up with his music

So I'm guessing (like we all are) that the hospital parking charges go directly into the pocket of upper-management, to provide more ivory back-scratchers?

You could get the 501 bus, but sadly they're as expensive as taxi's now, only in England is that possible

[thebish]

He could have just said there's a lot of c*nts out there.

he could have - and that would be closer to reality I suspect... but he didn't - preferring to blame something "outside" humanity called "evil" - which (I have always thought) is a cop out....

irt's MUCH harder to accept that this kind of violent and malicious behaviour is actually human (not even "animal" - human) - and that we are all capable of it... but that's quite hard to accept...

[Hoboh]

You mean except up the ladder Labour brag about wanting to remove

AND you bit!!!!

No, they're trying to remove the ladder so it's a level playing field. Eejet.

AND you still don't understand!!!!

Stop reading the Sun.

Ah the pennies dropped!

The gifted have to try and stay on the socially mobile ladder trying not to fall off into the morass of morons shaking and trying to dismantle it!

Silly me I forgot we were all supposed to be poor together.

[Hoboh]

Today I'm beside myself with rage at yet another case that the bleeding heart liberals will jump up to defend,

THE BRITISH FRITZEL!!!

There is no evil in the world just poor misunderstood folk!! This is one sad case really sad, but hey ho take heart we can all share the burden of the cost of keeping this bloke on top of all the enquiries and picking up the pieces of what he's already done!

This country cannot get any lower can it?

Hobo's law it will work!

hmmm.... is there or isn't there hobo? you once said there IS a dark malevolent force at work in the world - but then said you didn't believe in the supernatural... so - your sarcasm doesn't actually make your own position clear at all...

"poor misunderstood folk" is not the only alternative to positing the existence of "evil"

Whoa hold on there bish I ain't forgotton it, just minding my P's n Q's before replying and letting you and Hanibal Lecturer rip me to bits

[CAPSLOCK]

Worthy...what did the Labour party do to help those cotton mill workers left jobless by the flood of cheaper foreign imports in the late 60s?

[Hoboh]

Worthy...what did the Labour party do to help those cotton mill workers left jobless by the flood of cheaper foreign imports in the late 60s?

nowt they were all stoned at the time

Edit!!!!!

Sorry they started building Concorde didn't they? So the imports could get here faster