The Politics Thread

[Worthy4England]

Should they sell the familly silver first? If they've got it, yes. If you have one kid, a six bedroom house, three 4x4 cars, you don't 'need' jobseekers allowance. Problem is finding out who does need it, and stop 'can't be arseds' dossing off the state.

So Mr Real World

Just remind me how we pay for the house, cars and kid when we're redundant?

I think it will take you some time to catch up on "paying more" too...

FAO WtW - in line with the conversation around who gets a vote and is licensed to have kids, can we add no-one who hasn't paid more tax then me? Just to keep it all equitable?

[Prufrock]

Should they sell the familly silver first? If they've got it, yes. If you have one kid, a six bedroom house, three 4x4 cars, you don't 'need' jobseekers allowance. Problem is finding out who does need it, and stop 'can't be arseds' dossing off the state.

So Mr Real World

Just remind me how we pay for the house, cars and kid when we're redundant?

I think it will take you some time to catch up on "paying more" too...

FAO WtW - in line with the conversation around who gets a vote and is licensed to have kids, can we add no-one who hasn't paid more tax then me? Just to keep it all equitable?

Sell the house, sell the cars. I don't actually agree with BWFCi suggestion about jobseekers being means tested, for the simple fact that it'd be more hassle than it's worth. Be nice if folk had the social responsibility not to take it if they don't need it.

[Worthy4England]

Should they sell the familly silver first? If they've got it, yes. If you have one kid, a six bedroom house, three 4x4 cars, you don't 'need' jobseekers allowance. Problem is finding out who does need it, and stop 'can't be arseds' dossing off the state.

So Mr Real World

Just remind me how we pay for the house, cars and kid when we're redundant?

I think it will take you some time to catch up on "paying more" too...

FAO WtW - in line with the conversation around who gets a vote and is licensed to have kids, can we add no-one who hasn't paid more tax then me? Just to keep it all equitable?

Sell the house, sell the cars. I don't actually agree with BWFCi suggestion about jobseekers being means tested, for the simple fact that it'd be more hassle than it's worth. Be nice if folk had the social responsibility not to take it if they don't need it.

So we need to do all that, prior to being able to claim jobseekers? What happens if we don't find buyers for a few months? Should we just go bankrupt and leave everyone else to pick up the tab anyhow? That sounds like a plan..

[Worthy4England]

Should they sell the familly silver first? If they've got it, yes. If you have one kid, a six bedroom house, three 4x4 cars, you don't 'need' jobseekers allowance. Problem is finding out who does need it, and stop 'can't be arseds' dossing off the state.

So Mr Real World

Just remind me how we pay for the house, cars and kid when we're redundant?

I think it will take you some time to catch up on "paying more" too...

FAO WtW - in line with the conversation around who gets a vote and is licensed to have kids, can we add no-one who hasn't paid more tax then me? Just to keep it all equitable?

Sell the house, sell the cars. I don't actually agree with BWFCi suggestion about jobseekers being means tested, for the simple fact that it'd be more hassle than it's worth. Be nice if folk had the social responsibility not to take it if they don't need it.

So we need to do all that, prior to being able to claim jobseekers? What happens if we don't find buyers for a few months? Should we just go bankrupt and leave everyone else to pick up the tab anyhow? That sounds like a plan..

Actually, thinking this through, I assume that everyone who owned anything would need to sell stuff to claim the allowance, so non-essentials like the TV, the microwave, the stereo/hi-fi/iPod etc. etc.? Where do we draw a line?

[William the White]

Should they sell the familly silver first? If they've got it, yes. If you have one kid, a six bedroom house, three 4x4 cars, you don't 'need' jobseekers allowance. Problem is finding out who does need it, and stop 'can't be arseds' dossing off the state.

So Mr Real World

Just remind me how we pay for the house, cars and kid when we're redundant?

I think it will take you some time to catch up on "paying more" too...

FAO WtW - in line with the conversation around who gets a vote and is licensed to have kids, can we add no-one who hasn't paid more tax then me? Just to keep it all equitable?

I think this is a good variation absolutely in line with the thinking behind my suggestion... Perhaps we can have vote and children vouchers according to how much tax we have paid... Provided, obviously, that even non tax payers get one vote, because this is a democracy... it then increases accordingly... Obviously doesn't accord literally with your understandable desire, but would probably come out pretty close to it...

Maybe we could have Prague vouchers?

[Montreal Wanderer]

Maybe we could have Prague vouchers?

Is that some sort of blank Czech?

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Maybe we could have Prague vouchers?

Is that some sort of blank Czech?

In other news...

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washing ... +Ticket%29

And we think the standard of talent and debate in our politics is bad!

[Prufrock]

Maybe we could have Prague vouchers?

Is that some sort of blank Czech?

In other news...

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washing ... +Ticket%29

And we think the standard of talent and debate in our politics is bad!

That is marvellous. Sweet Jesus.

[Athers]

Just had the Tory candidate knock on my door asking who I'd vote for and whether I'd sign his nomination - can they ask for that before the election is called?

[ratbert]

Two days into the election and this thread goes dead! The irony...

I'm actually looking foprward to this election so long as I keep my borderline psychotic hatred of the Tories shackled. My prediction is Tories biggest party but short of majority, with the Lib Dems acting as power brokers... for someone. Here's a good case for a hung parliament in The Times (based on economics but electoral reform is just as big a deal for me): http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/commen ... 089477.ece

Cameron fans - he's at Warburtons sometime today.

[superjohnmcginlay]

They seem to have been going on about it for so long it's all become a bit meh.

[TANGODANCER]

Some folk have a warped view on taxes in my view. It's not a fecking savings account. What you put in should never affect what you take out.

How very wrong you are Pru. Paying income tax is a savings account. Work and pay taxes all your life and then finish up with nothing but an old-age pension to live on and you'll soon realise that, but for working and paying taxes and National Insurance, you'd finish up with absolutely fxxk all. How else could old age-pensions be funded? Taxes are a pain, but the country can't be run by a load of free-loaders contributing nothing. Redundancy is a reality, even for the self-employed and if we could all plan what's going to happen to us and afford to save large amounts to combat it, it wouldn't be a problem. It is, and a reality. Get made redundant and I suspect you might have a mind change, especially when you're buying a home and raising a family. This is the "real world".

[BWFC_Insane]

Some folk have a warped view on taxes in my view. It's not a fecking savings account. What you put in should never affect what you take out.

How very wrong you are Pru. Paying income tax is a savings account. Work and pay taxes all your life and then finish up with nothing but an old-age pension to live on and you'll soon realise that, but for working and paying taxes and National Insurance, you'd finish up with absolutely fxxk all. How else could old age-pensions be funded? Taxes are a pain, but the country can't be run by a load of free-loaders contributing nothing. Redundancy is a reality, even for the self-employed and if we could all plan what's going to happen to us and afford to save large amounts to combat it, it wouldn't be a problem. It is, and a reality. Get made redundant and I suspect you might have a mind change, especially when you're buying a home and raising a family. This is the "real world".

Income tax and NI are different.

NI is in effect your "pension scheme".

Income tax is used to pay for services that EVERYONE can benefit from like education, health services, etc etc.

Income Tax IS NOT NOT NOT a savings account.

[William the White]

Two days into the election and this thread goes dead! The irony...

I'm actually looking foprward to this election so long as I keep my borderline psychotic hatred of the Tories shackled. My prediction is Tories biggest party but short of majority, with the Lib Dems acting as power brokers... for someone. Here's a good case for a hung parliament in The Times (based on economics but electoral reform is just as big a deal for me): http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/commen ... 089477.ece

Cameron fans - he's at Warburtons sometime today.

Anyone who lived through the Thatcher years would recognise there's no need for shackles... Let it run free... It isn't psychotic, it's a sign of good mental health and a strong social conscience...

I'm with you entirely on electoral reform, which would allow me to vote for a party I actually believe in, rather than Labour as the best way of keeping out the Tories...

[hisroyalgingerness]

I'd agree on electoral reform too, none of the parties mean anything to me. It's constant swings and roundabouts. Neither main party are rooted in any particular "class" like they originated.

To top it off was watching the chancellor debate thinking what a fecking shame it is that those 3 can't bang their heads together and sort out our economic crisis between them.

[Hoboh]

Two days into the election and this thread goes dead! The irony...

I'm actually looking foprward to this election so long as I keep my borderline psychotic hatred of the Tories shackled. My prediction is Tories biggest party but short of majority, with the Lib Dems acting as power brokers... for someone. Here's a good case for a hung parliament in The Times (based on economics but electoral reform is just as big a deal for me): http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/commen ... 089477.ece

Cameron fans - he's at Warburtons sometime today.

Anyone who lived through the Thatcher years would recognise there's no need for shackles... Let it run free... It isn't psychotic, it's a sign of good mental health and a strong social conscience...

I'm with you entirely on electoral reform, which would allow me to vote for a party I actually believe in, rather than Labour as the best way of keeping out the Tories...

William you really disappoint me there!
Labour under the stewardship of Brown as Chancellor and Primeminister sit on the biggest finacial crisis since yer mate was writing plays and never saw it coming?
Most of the fiddleing MP's come from the ranks of the "working mans party" are we going to ignore that?
To keep having a go at the tory's likethat is a wee bit silly, what the hell are Labour doing except burdening our kids futures with massive debts? pushing ahead with global warming "taxes" even though there are now serious doubts begining to creep in over its actual effects? raising fuel prices when this is crucial to any recovery we might make, the list goes on and on.
It may come as a shock or at least as a suprise to you but I am not a tory voter by any stretch of the imagination, Iwill vote for who looks to be the safest best bet for not wasting my hard earned and interfears less in everyday life.
Am I on my own here? all I've read so far on the toilet paper dropped through the door is how much the parties want to spend on vunerable kids and youth! fine but why not do something for the poor sods who have to keep stumping up for this? Sorry but to read that trash you'd think every kid in the country was under threat and that is a million miles from being the reality. A small minority want protection but the sums of cash they want to throw at it is way out of line and excuse me if I'm wrong but after inquiries into the sad tragic cases that happen money seems to be way down the list of causes its more likely folk or departments not doing their jobs correctly.
Mark my words it will not be long before some cyclist gets killed on the main road through Farnworth soon, Afganhistans roads are better.
Thatcher is a thing of the past and we will never go back to the hardline outlook she took

[ratbert]

William you really disappoint me there!
Labour under the stewardship of Brown as Chancellor and Primeminister sit on the biggest finacial crisis since yer mate was writing plays and never saw it coming?
Most of the fiddleing MP's come from the ranks of the "working mans party" are we going to ignore that?
To keep having a go at the tory's likethat is a wee bit silly, what the hell are Labour doing except burdening our kids futures with massive debts? pushing ahead with global warming "taxes" even though there are now serious doubts begining to creep in over its actual effects? raising fuel prices when this is crucial to any recovery we might make, the list goes on and on.
It may come as a shock or at least as a suprise to you but I am not a tory voter by any stretch of the imagination, Iwill vote for who looks to be the safest best bet for not wasting my hard earned and interfears less in everyday life.
Am I on my own here? all I've read so far on the toilet paper dropped through the door is how much the parties want to spend on vunerable kids and youth! fine but why not do something for the poor sods who have to keep stumping up for this? Sorry but to read that trash you'd think every kid in the country was under threat and that is a million miles from being the reality. A small minority want protection but the sums of cash they want to throw at it is way out of line and excuse me if I'm wrong but after inquiries into the sad tragic cases that happen money seems to be way down the list of causes its more likely folk or departments not doing their jobs correctly.
Mark my words it will not be long before some cyclist gets killed on the main road through Farnworth soon, Afganhistans roads are better.
Thatcher is a thing of the past and we will never go back to the hardline outlook she took

To answer some points:

- The financial crisis has been a global event, not just a UK one, and most countries have responded to it in broadly the same way
- You can't condemn one party for having more expenses fiddlers than another, because that doesn't exonerate anyone from wrongdoing
- All three main parties are committed to green economy policies. Whatever your view on 'global warming' there is a need to make more sensible use of our resources, and that will eventually help stimulate the economy if done the right way
- The cash has to come from somewhere. The private sector will only stump up if there's a profit for them. Thus the public sector has to step in on, say, basic road maintenance. But how does it do so if the public sector is cut back (though most infrastructure projects are public-private partnerships and subcontracts anyway)

[Hoboh]

William you really disappoint me there!
Labour under the stewardship of Brown as Chancellor and Primeminister sit on the biggest finacial crisis since yer mate was writing plays and never saw it coming?
Most of the fiddleing MP's come from the ranks of the "working mans party" are we going to ignore that?
To keep having a go at the tory's likethat is a wee bit silly, what the hell are Labour doing except burdening our kids futures with massive debts? pushing ahead with global warming "taxes" even though there are now serious doubts begining to creep in over its actual effects? raising fuel prices when this is crucial to any recovery we might make, the list goes on and on.
It may come as a shock or at least as a suprise to you but I am not a tory voter by any stretch of the imagination, Iwill vote for who looks to be the safest best bet for not wasting my hard earned and interfears less in everyday life.
Am I on my own here? all I've read so far on the toilet paper dropped through the door is how much the parties want to spend on vunerable kids and youth! fine but why not do something for the poor sods who have to keep stumping up for this? Sorry but to read that trash you'd think every kid in the country was under threat and that is a million miles from being the reality. A small minority want protection but the sums of cash they want to throw at it is way out of line and excuse me if I'm wrong but after inquiries into the sad tragic cases that happen money seems to be way down the list of causes its more likely folk or departments not doing their jobs correctly.
Mark my words it will not be long before some cyclist gets killed on the main road through Farnworth soon, Afganhistans roads are better.
Thatcher is a thing of the past and we will never go back to the hardline outlook she took

To answer some points:

- The financial crisis has been a global event, not just a UK one, and most countries have responded to it in broadly the same way
- You can't condemn one party for having more expenses fiddlers than another, because that doesn't exonerate anyone from wrongdoing
- All three main parties are committed to green economy policies. Whatever your view on 'global warming' there is a need to make more sensible use of our resources, and that will eventually help stimulate the economy if done the right way
- The cash has to come from somewhere. The private sector will only stump up if there's a profit for them. Thus the public sector has to step in on, say, basic road maintenance. But how does it do so if the public sector is cut back (though most infrastructure projects are public-private partnerships and subcontracts anyway)

A £12 mill slice of taxpayers money to build a swiming baths or road repairs?

[Bruce Rioja]

Cameron fans - he's at Warburtons sometime today.

Yeah, I heard him - hope you did too. The man talks sense.

[Bruce Rioja]

Anyone who lived through the Thatcher years would recognise there's no need for shackles....

You're stuck in a time warp, mate. Sorry to have to point this out to you. By the way, what time does the 'Education, education and eduction' start?