The Politics Thread

[William the White]

Anyone who lived through the Thatcher years would recognise there's no need for shackles....

You're stuck in a time warp, mate. Sorry to have to point this out to you.

Spots. Leopards. Sorry to have to point this out to you.

[Worthy4England]

Anyone who lived through the Thatcher years would recognise there's no need for shackles....

You're stuck in a time warp, mate. Sorry to have to point this out to you. By the way, what time does the 'Education, education and eduction' start?

I'm happy to occupy the same time warp.

Will take rather more than the new breed of the Bullingdon Club telling everyone they're really different than mummy and daddy were, to convince me they're any different than the last lot of Tories we sent packing.

[Bruce Rioja]

Anyone who lived through the Thatcher years would recognise there's no need for shackles....

You're stuck in a time warp, mate. Sorry to have to point this out to you.

Spots. Leopards. Sorry to have to point this out to you.

Maybe if they called themselves 'New' Conservative, so that they could con the electorate into believing otherwise? Hey, it's worked before!

[William the White]

Anyone who lived through the Thatcher years would recognise there's no need for shackles....

You're stuck in a time warp, mate. Sorry to have to point this out to you.

Spots. Leopards. Sorry to have to point this out to you.

Maybe if they called themselves 'New' Conservative, so that they could con the electorate into believing otherwise? Hey, it's worked before!

New Labour genuinely was a new concoction - to the pain and disappointment of many a Labour supporter - but not the bankers...

[Bruce Rioja]

Anyone who lived through the Thatcher years would recognise there's no need for shackles....

You're stuck in a time warp, mate. Sorry to have to point this out to you. By the way, what time does the 'Education, education and eduction' start?

I'm happy to occupy the same time warp.

Will take rather more than the new breed of the Bullingdon Club telling everyone they're really different than mummy and daddy were, to convince me they're any different than the last lot of Tories we sent packing.

.

I expect better than tosh like that from you, Worthy. We still have two factories working four day weeks. That's 120 people on short time. Let's deal with the issues rather than this wank about the Bullingdon Club and 'Thatcherism' (who famously didn't care about the workers ). How in the the fecking bejayzus is the increase in NI going to help either us as a business or the current short-working-time situation?

[Worthy4England]

Anyone who lived through the Thatcher years would recognise there's no need for shackles....

You're stuck in a time warp, mate. Sorry to have to point this out to you. By the way, what time does the 'Education, education and eduction' start?

I'm happy to occupy the same time warp.

Will take rather more than the new breed of the Bullingdon Club telling everyone they're really different than mummy and daddy were, to convince me they're any different than the last lot of Tories we sent packing.

.

I expect better than tosh like that from you, Worthy. We still have two factories working four day weeks. That's 120 people on short time. Let's deal with the issues rather than this wank about the Bullingdon Club and 'Thatcherism' (who famously didn't care about the workers ). How in the the fecking bejayzus is the increase in NI going to help either us as a business or the current short-working-time situation?

Well if we start with throw away sloganising - it's likely to get a response in kind.

When I look back across the last lot of tories running the Country, and at unemployment figures, from 1979 through to 1997 I find only 4 years where it's below 8% (and two of those years were 1979 and 1980, before some of their fundamental policy changes began to bite) - so the majority of the time they were in power, there was huge amounts of unemployment (let alone 4 day weeks). Not sure how that will help you either, as I've yet to see anything that suggests that the "new conservatives" view using unemployment to drive wage restraint, any different than the last lot.

Between 1997 and 2009, it's been over 7% once, and below 6% ten times...

To your particular case, there could be many factors that's driving your short-working-time-situation - for all I know, there could be better product in the market than yours, the places you're trying to sell to could be suffering from the effects of the global recession and therefore not buying as much. Difficult to say really.

The NI rate increase is a tough call, but it's got to be more important to make the right decisions rather than just the popular ones. It also needs balancing against Coropration Tax rates, which 1979 to 1997 averaged about 29% and from 1997 have averaged less than 20%....

[Bruce Rioja]

Anyone who lived through the Thatcher years would recognise there's no need for shackles....

You're stuck in a time warp, mate. Sorry to have to point this out to you. By the way, what time does the 'Education, education and eduction' start?

I'm happy to occupy the same time warp.

Will take rather more than the new breed of the Bullingdon Club telling everyone they're really different than mummy and daddy were, to convince me they're any different than the last lot of Tories we sent packing.

.

I expect better than tosh like that from you, Worthy. We still have two factories working four day weeks. That's 120 people on short time. Let's deal with the issues rather than this wank about the Bullingdon Club and 'Thatcherism' (who famously didn't care about the workers ). How in the the fecking bejayzus is the increase in NI going to help either us as a business or the current short-working-time situation?

Well if we start with throw away sloganising - it's likely to get a response in kind..

No - can you not see? I'm talking about the where-do-we go-from-here? Is that not obvious? We can talk about the past until we're blue in our faces. Our factories with people on four-day-weeks in relation to the NI increase. Oh, and just to clear up your guesses - our product is the best in the world, we export it to 58 countries, and the exchange rate is in our favour. On you go!

[Worthy4England]

You're stuck in a time warp, mate. Sorry to have to point this out to you. By the way, what time does the 'Education, education and eduction' start?

I'm happy to occupy the same time warp.

Will take rather more than the new breed of the Bullingdon Club telling everyone they're really different than mummy and daddy were, to convince me they're any different than the last lot of Tories we sent packing.

.

I expect better than tosh like that from you, Worthy. We still have two factories working four day weeks. That's 120 people on short time. Let's deal with the issues rather than this wank about the Bullingdon Club and 'Thatcherism' (who famously didn't care about the workers ). How in the the fecking bejayzus is the increase in NI going to help either us as a business or the current short-working-time situation?

Well if we start with throw away sloganising - it's likely to get a response in kind..

No - can you not see? I'm talking about the where-do-we go-from-here? Is that not obvious? We can talk about the past until we're blue in our faces. Our factories with people on four-day-weeks in relation to the NI increase. Oh, and just to clear up your guesses - our product is the best in the world, we export it to 58 countries, and the exchange rate is in our favour. On you go!

They weren't guesses - I think you and I have discussed your product on a previous occasion. So if everything's in your favour, why are you doing 4 day weeks? Is your capacity greater than your demand? Or are you saying that you've moved to a four day week in advance of the NI increase? I'm confused - not that it's difficult...

I think you're right, it's all about how you go forwards. My view is that neither party is going to be well positioned from where we are so it's going to be tough either way. Frankly I don't trust the Tories to help in any dramatic way either - although there may well be a transfer of where job losses occur from the private to the public sector. There's still going to be blood on the carpet somewhere.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

A word of caution on the 'official unemployed figures'. I suspect both parties have been guilty of this but Labour have been particularly adept at masking the true number. With their myriad of status and benefits/credits etc there is a significant number that are unemployed but don't figure in the official number. Often this is due to them being moved on to a course or get a different kind of benefit. I'm no expert but I'm fairly sure that the Labour definition of unemployed is far different from what it was say 20 years ago.

I just wish all the parties would get on with dealing with the issues instead of playing at media celebrities and points scoring with populist headlines. We badly need electoral reform...

[Bruce Rioja]

Oh, and can someone tell me how the Lib Dem's are going to fund their proposed tax cuts? That's not me being sceptical or owt, I'm sure that they'll have explained it all somewhere - I just haven't read where.

[Athers]

Oh, and can someone tell me how the Lib Dem's are going to fund their proposed tax cuts? That's not me being sceptical or owt, I'm sure that they'll have explained it all somewhere - I just haven't read where.

I know their council tax scrapping, replaced by local income tax is to be funded by a Mansion Tax on properties over £2m... But how many mansions do we have in this country? Although £2m probably gets you a 2 bed semi in London I suppose.

[ratbert]

Some perspective on the NI debate - basically, two chefs arguing over a light dusting of caster sugar on a very large cake:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/ ... 608112.stm

And given that polling shows that 43% are in favour of the Tory plan and 45% are against it, this is much hot air about nowt.

Efficency savings also seems to be a source of much Lab-Tory cock swinging. We all hear about how much gets saved by cutting waste, but how much does it cost to cut waste? Cynical moi...

[Hoboh]

I'd be happy if they froze tax like Labour plan freezing wages.
Some taxes should go, like tax on insurance policys, road tax can be added to the cost of fuel then those who drive more and add to road deteriation would pay more andif you made a active effort to use your car less you could actually save, hauliers could claim some rebate to offset larger fuel bills.
Inheritence tax really does stink to hell, why save, invest, build up a pot for your kids and grandkids then have the goverment rip it away from you after you've more than likely paid a lot of tax in one form or another whilst acumilating your wealth.
A local income tax instead of poll tax (alright council tax ) sounds good but the figures are too hazy and would encourage people to still stay at home dodging having to pay it.
Unemployment benefit should be paid for no more than 6 months and you should have to have an employment record of 2 year before it's paid out again, same for rent rebates etc. Its too feckin' easy to sit around doing nowt blaming everyone else! why should kids leaving school automatically get cash from the state? Thats plain wrong, I know some houses were the adults and 2 or 3 kids are claiming as much if not more than I do for working and sit doing nowt and have all the latest sky etc! someone tell me why this is right? Before anyone starts on training, one word to the layabouts, its Bollocks!
Now I half expect BWFCI and a few others telling methey are poor unfortunates to be out of work and they would love to be working, have they got a sister who worked in the DHSS claims dept for 10 years whose seen it all first hand?
While I'm on one I might as well get it off my chest, WHEN will someone please explain to local councils they are there to look after and supervise local ammeanities not be property developers!!!
Best give over I'm getting a bit nowt now!

[TANGODANCER]

Oh, and can someone tell me how the Lib Dem's are going to fund their proposed tax cuts? That's not me being sceptical or owt, I'm sure that they'll have explained it all somewhere - I just haven't read where.

I'll admit I'm not as au-fait with politics as maybe I should be. That said, how can any incoming government promise anything till they see the full state of affairs re finance. They come in with all sorts of wild promises, then spend their time in power blaming the last lost for the current situation and provide a valid reason for people wanting them out. And so it goes on.. They're all a bunch of jugglers. I'd rather one honest government came in, admitted we're in deep shit and promise nothing except trying to get us out of it with a feasible plan to do that, however long it takes. I'd happily vote to give them a try.

The power struggle amongst countries in 2010 is little different than in the dark ages. Wealth, and the power that goes with it, means a massive drain on resources by the armed forces alone, little different than the days of Empiring. Add to that the amount of takers who contribute nothing and think the country owes them a living and at least honesty would emerge. It wouldn't be a happy picture, but at least it woud be an honest one.

The world's come along way but it's all on credit. Will the country's leaders ever get round to admitting that and work together to change it, or is that expecting too much?

[BWFC_Insane]

I'd be happy if they froze tax like Labour plan freezing wages.
Some taxes should go, like tax on insurance policys, road tax can be added to the cost of fuel then those who drive more and add to road deteriation would pay more andif you made a active effort to use your car less you could actually save, hauliers could claim some rebate to offset larger fuel bills.
Inheritence tax really does stink to hell, why save, invest, build up a pot for your kids and grandkids then have the goverment rip it away from you after you've more than likely paid a lot of tax in one form or another whilst acumilating your wealth.
A local income tax instead of poll tax (alright council tax ) sounds good but the figures are too hazy and would encourage people to still stay at home dodging having to pay it.
Unemployment benefit should be paid for no more than 6 months and you should have to have an employment record of 2 year before it's paid out again, same for rent rebates etc. Its too feckin' easy to sit around doing nowt blaming everyone else! why should kids leaving school automatically get cash from the state? Thats plain wrong, I know some houses were the adults and 2 or 3 kids are claiming as much if not more than I do for working and sit doing nowt and have all the latest sky etc! someone tell me why this is right? Before anyone starts on training, one word to the layabouts, its Bollocks!
Now I half expect BWFCI and a few others telling methey are poor unfortunates to be out of work and they would love to be working, have they got a sister who worked in the DHSS claims dept for 10 years whose seen it all first hand?
While I'm on one I might as well get it off my chest, WHEN will someone please explain to local councils they are there to look after and supervise local ammeanities not be property developers!!!
Best give over I'm getting a bit nowt now!

Just to pick up on this. How far would you have to raise tax on fuel in order to recoup the same amount that you would from the current system? I have no idea, but I imagine its a lot. Would it not make petrol prohibitively expensive for a lot of people?

Secondly road tax allows SOME checking on insurance and MOT's. It provides a limited check in terms of needing these to obtain tax but then further the police can very quickly indentify untaxed cars, and these are usually the ones without an MOT and insurance. Under your scheme you'd take that mechanism away, which either means introduction of a whole new mechanism that would inevitably cost lots, or less checking and ultimately less safety on the roads.

[Lord Kangana]

Personally, I'm looking forward to negative equity, record unemployment, lack of investment in public services and Victorian values. Still, at least we've got some more oil that can be sold off on the cheap to fund a few tax cuts for their mates, eh?

Put George Osbourne in charge of this mess? Don't make me laugh, he's not even the best Chancellor in his own party.

[CAPSLOCK]

Put George Osbourne in charge of this mess? Don't make me laugh, he's not even the best Chancellor in his own party.

And Xavi aint the best midfielder at Barca but he's way better than owt we've got

[superjohnmcginlay]

Are you in Bolton West? If so, unlucky. But there's summat going on:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/ ... 605883.stm

[Lord Kangana]

My mum and dad have been invited to that. They must be desperate. They live in Bolton NE.

[General Mannerheim]

As a person who has never voted, nor ever had much interest - is there an idiot proof table drawn anywhere for comparing each party, highlighting their basic policies, their plus points, their neagtive points, stuff like that? so folk can just read it and make clear minded decision?

for me at the moment, i just wouldnt bother, simply becasue both party leaders come across as complete dogwankers.