The Politics Thread

[fatshaft]

but a General election is not the X-factor. Why is it in the least bit relevant whether or not the PM has a sparkling "personality"? there are plenty of footballers with "personality" - but there are lots of them that I wouldn't want Coyle to spunk the club's wad on over the summer... I'd pick a dull striker who scores over a bubbly striker who doesn't.

likewise with the PM - I'd pick one who can do the job.

It's not so much personality as charisma. If they come across well, they inspire confidence, it is a basic of leadership. Inspire and people follow, think Churchill or Hilter for example.

On the other side, think Kinnock, he was strolling to victory, until his stroll on the beach when he stumbled into the sea, suddenly the voters saw a guy as a bit of a calamity, and not someone they could trust, his vote fell in the opinion polls directly because of that small incident, and collapsed completely after his pre-election 'victory' speech.

[thebish]

but a General election is not the X-factor. Why is it in the least bit relevant whether or not the PM has a sparkling "personality"? there are plenty of footballers with "personality" - but there are lots of them that I wouldn't want Coyle to spunk the club's wad on over the summer... I'd pick a dull striker who scores over a bubbly striker who doesn't.

likewise with the PM - I'd pick one who can do the job.

It's not so much personality as charisma. If they come across well, they inspire confidence, it is a basic of leadership. Inspire and people follow, think Churchill or Hilter for example.

On the other side, think Kinnock, he was strolling to victory, until his stroll on the beach when he stumbled into the sea, suddenly the voters saw a guy as a bit of a calamity, and not someone they could trust, his vote fell in the opinion polls directly because of that small incident, and collapsed completely after his pre-election 'victory' speech.

I agree that that IS how many people vote - but I still think it's a bit daft. What is the job of PM? - in the next 5 years it will be primarily to build and manage a team of ministers who will nurture the recovery and help shape the society in which we live.

perhaps you need some charisma to do the team-building and managing - but it is certainly not the first thing I'd look for - and (let's face it) Blair had bags of charisma and personality. Cameron (it seems to me) is Blair-lite - a poor copy except without the ideas...

[Worthy4England]

but a General election is not the X-factor. Why is it in the least bit relevant whether or not the PM has a sparkling "personality"? there are plenty of footballers with "personality" - but there are lots of them that I wouldn't want Coyle to spunk the club's wad on over the summer... I'd pick a dull striker who scores over a bubbly striker who doesn't.

likewise with the PM - I'd pick one who can do the job.

It's not so much personality as charisma. If they come across well, they inspire confidence, it is a basic of leadership. Inspire and people follow, think Churchill or Hilter for example.

On the other side, think Kinnock, he was strolling to victory, until his stroll on the beach when he stumbled into the sea, suddenly the voters saw a guy as a bit of a calamity, and not someone they could trust, his vote fell in the opinion polls directly because of that small incident, and collapsed completely after his pre-election 'victory' speech.

Aye - I was at Sheffield for the victory speech - even I though fcuk me.

Interesting point though FS.

One "commentator" pointed out yesterday when giving their view on the whole debate, something along the lines of...

"It's not a dispatch box, people don't want detail, this is TV folks, they want a performance."

I think they were a luvvie rather than a politico.

I watched last night and will probably try and catch the next two. If they become "performances" I won't bother.

[thebish]

I might take my last 5 of the same threads to see how many times I mentioned Allardyce...

Whew - "Points" came out on top...

http://www.wordle.net/show/wrdl/1907888 ... ake_prizes

I like the way "go" appears inside the "g" of megson!

[Worthy4England]

I might take my last 5 of the same threads to see how many times I mentioned Allardyce...

Whew - "Points" came out on top...

http://www.wordle.net/show/wrdl/1907888 ... ake_prizes

I like the way "go" appears inside the "g" of megson!

I spotted that one too!

[jimbo]

I might take my last 5 of the same threads to see how many times I mentioned Allardyce...

Whew - "Points" came out on top...

http://www.wordle.net/show/wrdl/1907888 ... ake_prizes

I like the way "go" appears inside the "g" of megson!

I spotted that one too!

That wordcloud thing is ace. I just copied my essay that I'm writing at the moment into it. Provides a pretty good synopsis!

[thebish]

I might take my last 5 of the same threads to see how many times I mentioned Allardyce...

Whew - "Points" came out on top...

http://www.wordle.net/show/wrdl/1907888 ... ake_prizes

I like the way "go" appears inside the "g" of megson!

I spotted that one too!

That wordcloud thing is ace. I just copied my essay that I'm writing at the moment into it. Provides a pretty good synopsis!

I sometimes use it for backing pictures on the big-screen for Bible-readings (you'll be interested to know!) - sometimes it does succinctly highlight the key words and themes - sometimes not...

[fatshaft]

The biggest revelation in this thread to me is that 'thebish' is actually a Bish

[Hoboh]

The biggest revelation in this thread to me is that 'thebish' is actually a Bish

Nawww thats four Jockeys and seven seals!

[Raven]

My partner feels so strongly that she's actually actively campaigning for david crausby (who, in a personal sense, is a decent and honest guy) even though both of us left the Labour Party (as members) over fifteen years ago... I couldn't bring myself to do that... She, btw, thinks i'm a total feckwit on this stance... On balance, it's nice to be married to possibly the only person on earth who finds the Tories more repellant than I do...

Funny that - about the same time as me. Coincidentally just about the time that Tony Blair got elected leader....

And turned them into a softer version of the Tory party

[thebish]

The biggest revelation in this thread to me is that 'thebish' is actually a Bish

the avatar is really actually me...

[CAPSLOCK]

My partner feels so strongly that she's actually actively campaigning for david crausby (who, in a personal sense, is a decent and honest guy) even though both of us left the Labour Party (as members) over fifteen years ago... I couldn't bring myself to do that... She, btw, thinks i'm a total feckwit on this stance... On balance, it's nice to be married to possibly the only person on earth who finds the Tories more repellant than I do...

Funny that - about the same time as me. Coincidentally just about the time that Tony Blair got elected leader....

And turned them into a softer version of the Tory party

Cos they were fcuking unelectable

Cos most folk can't abide socialism

[William the White]

My partner feels so strongly that she's actually actively campaigning for david crausby (who, in a personal sense, is a decent and honest guy) even though both of us left the Labour Party (as members) over fifteen years ago... I couldn't bring myself to do that... She, btw, thinks i'm a total feckwit on this stance... On balance, it's nice to be married to possibly the only person on earth who finds the Tories more repellant than I do...

Funny that - about the same time as me. Coincidentally just about the time that Tony Blair got elected leader....

And turned them into a softer version of the Tory party

Cos they were fcuking unelectable

Cos most folk can't abide socialism

Yep. But there's a significant socialist minority that the current system leaves unrepresented. I reckon that could be about 7-10% of the population. I'd like an electoral system that allowed that voice to be heard in the debate. And I'd like to see it in alliance with the Greens as far as possible. And that would make it an even more significant force. As it is, the current system only allows me to vote against - which I will certainly do.

[as]

did anyone else watch newsnight?

how crap was that??

they had a loooooooooong section that was filled with:

1. the reactions of a "carefully selected" focus group of 36 people who pressed buttons to make a wormy line on the screen go up and down depending on whether they liked what was being said (I suppose - mildly informative - no approval at all, for instance, for any of the pally anecdotes.)

2. reading out dozens of moronic tweets from internet morons

3. reading out moronic comments on the BBC election forum from more random internet morons

4. dislaying word clouds of everything the leaders had said which were supposed to give a flavour of what each leader finds important (the more you say it - the bigger the word) - but the biggest and prominent words were words like "from" and he concluded "well - I suppose those are the words you would find in any speech."

I don't want Newsnight to appeal to Noddy - there are not THAT many programmes that discuss the issues seriously - why should EVERY election program have to appeal to a 4 year old?

No wonder Brown wasn't elected, I left something with more personality in the toilet bowl this morning.

but a General election is not the X-factor. Why is it in the least bit relevant whether or not the PM has a sparkling "personality"? there are plenty of footballers with "personality" - but there are lots of them that I wouldn't want Coyle to spunk the club's wad on over the summer... I'd pick a dull striker who scores over a bubbly striker who doesn't.

likewise with the PM - I'd pick one who can do the job.

As they say in America - true dat!

As for 'one who can do the job', Brown has already shown he's hopeless, CoE for 10 years and 'didn't see the economic collapse coming' and a country on it's knees, like one of Shiffnall's finest. Most of the time he answers a question with 'as the Americans are doing'. I don't know whether he's trying to jump on the Obama-bandwagon and gain support that way, or he's just a bland and clueless career politician, who should have stayed in the shadows of his mate Tony.

Cue another interview where he brings up personal tragedy (the loss of his child) for sympathy...........failing that, he can get his missus out again, telling us how wonderful her husband is..........or another cringe-worthy youtube clip, with that fake smile that has a touch of the Gary Glitter about it.

[thebish]

As they say in America - true dat!

As for 'one who can do the job', Brown has already shown he's hopeless, CoE for 10 years and 'didn't see the economic collapse coming' and a country on it's knees, like one of Shiffnall's finest. Most of the time he answers a question with 'as the Americans are doing'. I don't know whether he's trying to jump on the Obama-bandwagon and gain support that way, or he's just a bland and clueless career politician, who should have stayed in the shadows of his mate Tony.

Cue another interview where he brings up personal tragedy (the loss of his child) for sympathy...........failing that, he can get his missus out again, telling us how wonderful her husband is..........or another cringe-worthy youtube clip, with that fake smile that has a touch of the Gary Glitter about it.

even if all of that was fair and true (which it isn't!) - I would still choose Brown over Cameron without a moment's hesitation.

reason? Brown believes in public service and in a fairer and more just society. Cameron believes in whatever sounds good at any particular moment.

Labour are a bit crap - but I still trust Labour political instincts massively above trusting Tory political instincts.

[TANGODANCER]

As a country we've come a long way. Zimbabwe currently advertising for a hangman, as fifty prisoners are still awaiting execution, proves that somewhat. Our problems have always been rooted in the people who run us. There is still far too much of "us versus them" involved in any political elections. The Tories are renowned for looking after the rich and richer, Labour was always the working man's party. Greed promoted our Empiring and what did the working classes see of any of that? It was always factory owners, plantation owners, exporters, all existing on cheap labour, that ruled the roost. Isn't it about time a party developed learning from past lessons? Even the people have become greedy in their demands as to what constitutes a standard of living. I have neighbours who drive to the newsagents/corner shop. It's all of two hundred yards away.

We're so concerned with world affairs that we seem to have forgotten the "keeping your own house in order" rules. If the recent recession and financial collapse hasn't taught some lessons to our leaders, it's maybe about time it did. The political in-fighting is a joke. Governments are there to rule countries. Why can't ours?

[as]

As they say in America - true dat!

As for 'one who can do the job', Brown has already shown he's hopeless, CoE for 10 years and 'didn't see the economic collapse coming' and a country on it's knees, like one of Shiffnall's finest. Most of the time he answers a question with 'as the Americans are doing'. I don't know whether he's trying to jump on the Obama-bandwagon and gain support that way, or he's just a bland and clueless career politician, who should have stayed in the shadows of his mate Tony.

Cue another interview where he brings up personal tragedy (the loss of his child) for sympathy...........failing that, he can get his missus out again, telling us how wonderful her husband is..........or another cringe-worthy youtube clip, with that fake smile that has a touch of the Gary Glitter about it.

even if all of that was fair and true (which it isn't!) - I would still choose Brown over Cameron without a moment's hesitation.

reason? Brown believes in public service and in a fairer and more just society. Cameron believes in whatever sounds good at any particular moment.

Labour are a bit crap - but I still trust Labour political instincts massively above trusting Tory political instincts.

How do you know that then?

Cameron has never been PM, whereas Brown is an unelected laughing stock.

[ratbert]

My partner feels so strongly that she's actually actively campaigning for david crausby (who, in a personal sense, is a decent and honest guy) even though both of us left the Labour Party (as members) over fifteen years ago... I couldn't bring myself to do that... She, btw, thinks i'm a total feckwit on this stance... On balance, it's nice to be married to possibly the only person on earth who finds the Tories more repellant than I do...

Funny that - about the same time as me. Coincidentally just about the time that Tony Blair got elected leader....

And turned them into a softer version of the Tory party

Cos they were fcuking unelectable

Cos most folk can't abide socialism

No evidence for that, of course, but if the question were framed as fair redistribution of wealth above short-sighted individualism...

[thebish]

How do you know that then?

Cameron has never been PM, whereas Brown is an unelected laughing stock.

Cameron is just as "unelected" as Brown - nobody is elected Prime Minister by the electorate - they are ALL chosen by their party.

I have a way to judge Brown's instincts because of his long track record in government and in public service.

All I have for Cameron is the years he has been party leader - and several years as MP before that - and observing him then i judge his instincts seem to be connected more to what will sound good at the current moment rather than any underlying principles that show up in any voting record or history of action/service.

[William the White]

My partner feels so strongly that she's actually actively campaigning for david crausby (who, in a personal sense, is a decent and honest guy) even though both of us left the Labour Party (as members) over fifteen years ago... I couldn't bring myself to do that... She, btw, thinks i'm a total feckwit on this stance... On balance, it's nice to be married to possibly the only person on earth who finds the Tories more repellant than I do...

Funny that - about the same time as me. Coincidentally just about the time that Tony Blair got elected leader....

And turned them into a softer version of the Tory party

Cos they were fcuking unelectable

Cos most folk can't abide socialism

No evidence for that, of course, but if the question were framed as fair redistribution of wealth above short-sighted individualism...

Most people can't abide Toryism... We never have a majority for any one party in the popular vote...