The Politics Thread

[Porrohman]

did anyone else watch newsnight?

how crap was that??

they had a loooooooooong section that was filled with:

1. the reactions of a "carefully selected" focus group of 36 people who pressed buttons to make a wormy line on the screen go up and down depending on whether they liked what was being said (I suppose - mildly informative - no approval at all, for instance, for any of the pally anecdotes.)

2. reading out dozens of moronic tweets from internet morons

3. reading out moronic comments on the BBC election forum from more random internet morons

4. dislaying word clouds of everything the leaders had said which were supposed to give a flavour of what each leader finds important (the more you say it - the bigger the word) - but the biggest and prominent words were words like "from" and he concluded "well - I suppose those are the words you would find in any speech."

I don't want Newsnight to appeal to Noddy - there are not THAT many programmes that discuss the issues seriously - why should EVERY election program have to appeal to a 4 year old?

No wonder Brown wasn't elected, I left something with more personality in the toilet bowl this morning.

but a General election is not the X-factor. Why is it in the least bit relevant whether or not the PM has a sparkling "personality"? there are plenty of footballers with "personality" - but there are lots of them that I wouldn't want Coyle to spunk the club's wad on over the summer... I'd pick a dull striker who scores over a bubbly striker who doesn't.

likewise with the PM - I'd pick one who can do the job.

As they say in America - true dat!

As for 'one who can do the job', Brown has already shown he's hopeless, CoE for 10 years and 'didn't see the economic collapse coming' and a country on it's knees, like one of Shiffnall's finest. Most of the time he answers a question with 'as the Americans are doing'. I don't know whether he's trying to jump on the Obama-bandwagon and gain support that way, or he's just a bland and clueless career politician, who should have stayed in the shadows of his mate Tony.

Cue another interview where he brings up personal tragedy (the loss of his child) for sympathy...........failing that, he can get his missus out again, telling us how wonderful her husband is..........or another cringe-worthy youtube clip, with that fake smile that has a touch of the Gary Glitter about it.

What you mean that Android Cameron hasn`t ever been on tv banging on about the death of his son?
Or that he managed to knock up his tart and have it plastered all over the papers.

[BWFC_Insane]

whogetsmyvote.com

This is good everyone should do it...

Here are my results...

Cars...Labour
Immigration...Lib Dem
Sentencing...Lib Dem
Public Finances...Labour
Europe...Green Party
Higher Education...Labour
NHS Targets...Labour

Overall Labour. Which I'm surprised about as I usually come out as Lib Dem but vote Labour as its the best way to keep the Tories out.

Interesting site indeed, more folk should do it and post their results on here!

[BWFC_Insane]

Oh and don't know if this has been posted, but it certainly sums up my current feelings...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZDreHPzU94

[Prufrock]

How do you know that then?

Cameron has never been PM, whereas Brown is an unelected laughing stock.

Cameron is just as "unelected" as Brown - nobody is elected Prime Minister by the electorate - they are ALL chosen by their party.

I have a way to judge Brown's instincts because of his long track record in government and in public service.

All I have for Cameron is the years he has been party leader - and several years as MP before that - and observing him then i judge his instincts seem to be connected more to what will sound good at the current moment rather than any underlying principles that show up in any voting record or history of action/service.

This, with an aside stressing how much bollox the Brown is unelected is. Works me up that.

[fatshaft]

Interesting that site:

Cars - BNP
Europe - UKIP
Policing - Tory
Immigration - Labour (extremely shocked at that one)
Jobs- Libs
NHS- BNP
Energy - UKIP

[thebish]

Interesting that site:

Cars - BNP
Europe - UKIP
Policing - Tory
Immigration - Labour (extremely shocked at that one)
Jobs- Libs
NHS- BNP
Energy - UKIP

there's a tiny chink in your armour there!

[thebish]

David Cameron and all this talk about supporting your local community and local parents at local schools making it happen - apparently does NOT apply to him and his missus.....

it's all talk and no trousers...

from the London Evening Standard...

If David Cameron waved his arm out of his back-room window, I could just about see it while sitting on my bed.

It's one of those weird thoughts that pop into your head when you live five gardens away from the man who hopes to be the next PM.

I used to be quite hopeful about him, all fresh-faced and full of jovial banter in our local shop. Several years on, I've joined The Disillusioned of W10.

The tipping point came this week with his election manifesto themed on a more inclusive society, where neighbourhood armies would work to support their local communities and help to mend “broken Britain”. Parents would be given greater powers to help set up and run their own schools “within the state sector”.

All very altruistic, if a tad impractical for most working parents, but where exactly is Mr Cameron's sense of community? We once asked him to open the summer fête at our local nursery, which relies on charitable fundraising to stay open and supports children from disparate socio-economic backgrounds. While a local banker who doesn't even have children at the nursery shells out several thousands of pounds annually to support this cause, Mr Cameron couldn't spare 30 minutes.

His local school, Oxford Gardens Primary School, which all three of my children attend, is Kensington and Chelsea's largest state primary, with fantastic staff and great children who represent London's huge multicultural mix. Motivated, giving parents — just the sort the Tory leader talked about Tuesday — are a huge help to its head teacher, Sarah Cooper, who relies on them to keep improving the school.

Though the Camerons are in the perfect position to contribute to their community school, they felt that their child would be “a bit lost” there. So she attends St Mary Abbots, an exclusive CofE school two miles away in a significantly richer community. Nor, to my knowledge, do they attend their local CofE church, St Helen's, two streets from their home. The Camerons judiciously began attending St Mary Abbots church three years before their daughter started at its adjoining school.

This is their prerogative and, hey, if parents want to jump through such hoops in order to secure a more exclusive education for their child, who I am to judge? But Dave, don't then start lecturing me about community values. “Do as I say, not as I do” is a stance that has contributed mightily to our disdain for politicians.

Ironically, Oxford Gardens, the local school deemed not good enough for his children, will be where his neighbours cast their votes in three weeks' time. He'll have to put on an extraordinary performance in tonight's first election debate to stop me hovering over the Lib-Dem box instead of ticking the blue one.

[bedwetter2]

There seems to be an awful lot of left wing oiks on here.

[thebish]

There seems to be an awful lot of left wing oiks on here.

I believe the term is "bedwetter"

[Bruce Rioja]

There seems to be an awful lot of left wing oiks on here.

The most noise does appear to being made by the emptiest vessels, that's for sure!

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Cos most folk can't abide socialism

Yep. But there's a significant socialist minority that the current system leaves unrepresented. I reckon that could be about 7-10% of the population. I'd like an electoral system that allowed that voice to be heard in the debate. And I'd like to see it in alliance with the Greens as far as possible. And that would make it an even more significant force. As it is, the current system only allows me to vote against - which I will certainly do.

The Greens are a genuine socialist party these days - I don't really understand what it is you'd have them in an alliance with rather than an option in their own right?

Anyway, those of us who are interested in these things predicted that the debate would be good for Clegg, but I'm surprised at how well he's done out of it. The cover of last week's Economist had pictures of the three leaders with these captions: 'The Devil You Know' (Brown), 'The Devil You Don't' (Cameron), 'Who The Devil?' (Clegg). I don't think the same cover could be printed this week; it has been fashionable for a long time to dismiss Clegg and his parties as complete non-entities, and in that respect it doesn't seem an exaggeration to say that this first debate has been a complete game-changer.

It's funny isn't it - Clegg, essentially, is a lightweight - that much has always been pretty clear when he stands up in PMQs. He does not command the respect and attention of the HoC; he doesn't have the gravitas to do so. But in this prime-time format, looking the least like a politician, looking the least statesmanlike, is actually an advantage. His heretofore political irrelevance is a positive thing for people who are apparently completely turned off by politics - he can position himself as being outside of the petty partisan squabbles of 'these two'. He can make populist promises such as the scrapping of Trident, because he knows he's never actually going to have to make that decision.

I suppose he benefits from simply looking 'normal', which is not a description that could ever seriously be attached to Cameron or Brown. He also does that folksy thing of remembering and using people's names pretty well, and even did the sort of rule-breaking that people will find attractive when he tried to get 'Joel the Jewish' kid to respond to a question.

I was disappointed with our man Cameron. I don't think he will have charmed anyone with that performance. The thought I couldn't stop thinking was that Blair would have had all three of them for breakfast in this format.

[Lord Kangana]

Who says Clegg looked the least Statesmenlike and the most lightweight in the first place? George Osbourne is frontrunner to be our next Chancellor fer crying out loud.

And its depressing that Blair would have them all. Everyone in politics talks like him these days, and they all copy his ridiculous hand movements. How utterly depressing. Yo Blair...

[KeeeeeeeBaaaaaaab]

He can make populist promises such as the scrapping of Trident, because he knows he's never actually going to have to make that decision.

And it's because - let's be honest here - the majority of the voting British public are too thick to think that change is anything beyond going from "The Red Ones" to "The Blue Ones"....

We're talking here about the rabid ones. The ones who are demanding change, and will therefore go with the man who will say the word "change" the most. And let's face it....that's Cameron's whole manifesto.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Who says Clegg looked the least Statesmenlike and the most lightweight in the first place? George Osbourne is frontrunner to be our next Chancellor fer crying out loud.

And its depressing that Blair would have them all. Everyone in politics talks like him these days, and they all copy his ridiculous hand movements. How utterly depressing. Yo Blair...

Well that has always been the political cognoscenti's view of Clegg - not unfair, in my opinion - but people will think twice before cracking the predictable jokes about his being a complete irrelevance now. He's not.

And yes, depressing, but true.

[Lord Kangana]

The two stand-out things from the last couple of decades that have shaped our political world are; the Tories dragging everything too far to the right, and the rest being clueless as to how to rectify this so simply following, hence why the likes of Clarke, and previously Hesseltine, were sidelined even by their own party;

And Blairism, hence why we have Cameron and Clegg. And those f*cking hand movements. And big grins, and rampant sacharin-coated personality politics. Hence why Hague only gets wheeled out every now and then to try and put a human voice to it all for people who aren't fooled. Brown doesn't really fit in, 'cept for being promoted beyond his ability. I don't think in the main he was a bad chancellor. But then neither was Clarke, didn't stop a landslide defeat.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

And Blairism, hence why we have Cameron and Clegg. And those f*cking hand movements. And big grins, and rampant sacharin-coated personality politics. Hence why Hague only gets wheeled out every now and then to try and put a human voice to it all for people who aren't fooled. Brown doesn't really fit in, 'cept for being promoted beyond his ability. I don't think in the main he was a bad chancellor. But then neither was Clarke, didn't stop a landslide defeat.

The thing about the Blair/Clinton (I actually don't include Obama in this) style is you've either got that political musk or you haven't, and I agree that it's a bit ridiculous when others try and produce it. Interesting to hear you call Hague a 'human voice', because I, big Hague fan though I am, have always thought that he suffers from coming across like a student-politics-debater smart alec.

[Lord Kangana]

He makes mistakes, doesn't always appear 'polished'. I feel like half of them come across as some kind of Manchurian Candidate. Its reassuring, and he likes the word 'hubris'. Always a vote winner, that one.

[a1]

there was some quote in some paper that said

"worst kraftwerk gig ever"

made me laugh.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eI3gCWL-sY

[Horza]

The debate in 15 seconds http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0QsSoV0SRo

[Worthy4England]

There seems to be an awful lot of left wing oiks on here.

'Scuse me. We're all champagne socialists now. Do try and keep up.