The Politics Thread

[Bruce Rioja]

Nice debating skills on show here by the BNP's candidate for Romford

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/ ... 663681.stm

Fire with fire n all that

Bit extreme for a wannabe politician, but the little gobbing bastard deserved a slap right enough.

Have to say, I've little idea as to what my reaction would be if someone gobbed in my face, but it wouldn't be rational, I'm sure. Quite how Arjan De Zeeuw kept it together after Diouf spat in his face from all of a foot away a few years back I've no idea, but he earned my total respect for having done so.

[CAPSLOCK]

In a constituency based polling system, only major parties can ever hope to have a say in government. Which leads to tactical voting and all its idiocy. I understand exactly why the Tories are running scared from it, despite all the gloss and spin of their argument, its because the majority of this country vote for left of centre and left wing, vaguely social democratic parties. With PR, the Tories would be wiped out as a major force in a heartbeat. Ergo, our present system is unrepresentative of the majority wish of our country.

There is an assumption there that the 'non' voters reflect voters

In case that's not clear, I could argue that the majority of people who don't vote are Tories

Can't prove it, but it could well be the case

[Lord Kangana]

Actually, most studies have shown the opposite. The bigger the turn-out, the bigger the swing to the left.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Well yes, it seems to me a fairly basic matter of logic that the least wealthy 70% of the country is always likely to vote to take money away from the top 30% and divide the proceeds amongst themselves.


Anyway...

In a constituency based polling system, only major parties can ever hope to have a say in government.

Read an opinion in a paper today against proportional representation which basically said "6% of voters are BNP and if we adopted proportional representation they'd get 30 seats" or whatever.

Big "so what".

I would also say "so what", but not for the same reason. What are the consequences for actual decision-making if the BNP get in? Would it make a blind bit of difference, even (especially?) on matters of immigration? What would the result of their 'having a say in government' actually be?

[Lord Kangana]

The BNP will never have a say in Government under PR. Its the same point as the Tories, theres too many Social Democrat votes for it to happen. Another Red Herring.

Are you interested in Democracy or just the retention of the staus quo? And should money equate to the power of your vote?

[CAPSLOCK]

Actually, most studies have shown the opposite. The bigger the turn-out, the bigger the swing to the left.

In the 5 highest turnouts post war, the Tories won 3 and the 3 lowest turnouts saw Labour wins, but I'm sure you're right

[Lord Kangana]

And the highest ever turnout?

[CAPSLOCK]

As you know, Labour won that one

Not exactly an 'all things being equal' election, was it?

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

The BNP will never have a say in Government under PR. Its the same point as the Tories, theres too many Social Democrat votes for it to happen. Another Red Herring.

Well I think that's a bold statement that's difficult to substantiate, but there you go. Anyway, I'm not trying to introduce a red herring, or scare people away from PR with the BNP... quite the opposite, in fact - I'm saying that even if they 'had a say' to the tune of 6% representation, it's unlikely to have any effect on decision making.

Are you interested in Democracy or just the retention of the staus quo? And should money equate to the power of your vote?

Even with a capital 'D', democracy is capable of meaning different things to different people. A system of making decisions that relies heavily on deals and backroom negotiations doesn't strike some as being terribly 'democratic'. True democracy would be a referendum on every issue, wouldn't it? I think your sensibilities might be slightly offended with some of the decisions that sort of system would throw up.

[Lord Kangana]

No, but you've still missed the point. This isn't about seats or who formed a Government. The majority of people in this country vote for centre-left/left etc parties. This is under-represented under the current system.

[CAPSLOCK]

No, but you've still missed the point. This isn't about seats or who formed a Government. The majority of people in this country vote for centre-left/left etc parties. This is under-represented under the current system.

Trust me, I haven't missed any point

I just disagree with your conclusions

Anyway...exit polls in minutes

GTG, my Pomagne is nicely chilled

OVERALL MAJORITY APPROX 12 SEATS

[Lord Kangana]

Voter numbers for Lab/Lib/Green/Socialist etc (even in the Thatcherite 80's) hovers around the 1.5/2:1 of Tory/UKIP/BNP/Ulster etc.

[bobo the clown]

No, but you've still missed the point. This isn't about seats or who formed a Government. The majority of people in this country vote for centre-left/left etc parties. This is under-represented under the current system.

Trust me, I haven't missed any point

I just disagree with your conclusions

Anyway...exit polls in minutes

GTG, my Pomagne is nicely chilled

OVERALL MAJORITY APPROX 12 SEATS

Ditto.

Anyway .... just watching the Makem's trying to get the first result with dozens of teenagers playing pass the parcel with the ballot boxes.

It's like 'Election It's a Knock-Out"

Very funny to watch.

[Bruce Rioja]

OK, here goes. You know, Knopfler had this sussed years ago. "A bottle of whisky and a new set of lies. Blinds on the windows and a pain behind the eyes. Scarred for life No compensation...." is surely about election night. Regardless of any political differences, may you all have a peaceful evening.

[finlayson]

Bit disturbed at the percentage of people on here voting tory after what they did to our area of the country last time they were in!

[bw@bw]

Hundreds of Voters in Sheffield and Manchester have been locked out and prevented from voting because the polling Stations could not cope with the number of people wanting to vote


Banana Republics do better than this


Scandalous

[Lord Kangana]

Also Hackney, Hull and Lewisham.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

What's caused all this queuing then I wonder? Nobody's suggesting there's been some kind of unprecedented turnout are they?

[Athers]

I think Athers is pleased with his narrow sample of evidence that the group that traditionally has the lowest turnout appears to have been engaged by this election.

Indeed, calm down everyone

Apparently my old man had to help the ladies staffing his polling station shake the box up as it was nearly full to bursting at about 7pm. There was something approaching similar at my station. Spare boxes, anyone..?

[bobo the clown]

Hundreds of Voters in Sheffield and Manchester have been locked out and prevented from voting because the polling Stations could not cope with the number of people wanting to vote

Banana Republics do better than this

Scandalous

The polls close at 10pm. Fact.

If they turned up too late they fecked it. End of. Tossers.

... & don't go disagreeing. The moment I posted this I became an "Icon", so there !!