robbie earns his coin

[Lord Kangana]

Interesting that Allardyce's methods are considered old hat, yet we've just signed Petrov, Blake and Holden on frees, and had Wilshere and Weiss on loan.

Perhaps we're just getting back to what we're good at?

[thebish]

Interesting that Allardyce's methods are considered old hat, yet we've just signed Petrov, Blake and Holden on frees, and had Wilshere and Weiss on loan.

Perhaps we're just getting back to what we're good at?

I hope so - we used to be quite good at beating arsenal...

[Prufrock]

How bad really was the squad Allardyce left? It was in decline yes, and would have struggled even if he had stayed to finish in the top 8 again, but the idea you go from 7th one year to 20th after 10 games and 16th after 38 without some very poor management is ridiculous. He left us a front three of Anelka, Diouf and Davies, he left us Jaaskelainen and Faye. Those players should still have been nowhere near the bottom of the table.

[Lord Kangana]

We've also signed Klasnic on a free (or is it a further loan?)....

Maybe that Spanish fella will be our new Jermaine Johnson, and Robbie Blake our new Ricketts (he's chubby enough)?

[thebish]

We've also signed Klasnic on a free (or is it a further loan?)....

we own him!

[Lord Kangana]

Pwn is, I believe, the 'street' slag for that. Use it on your congregation if you're looking to freshen it up a bit, get in tough wid der yoot, and that.

[thebish]

Pwn is, I believe, the 'street' slag for that. Use it on your congregation if you're looking to freshen it up a bit, get in tough wid der yoot, and that.

hmmmm... not really... more time wid da yoot needed for you my son! and... street slag?? Klasnic is nothing of the sort...

[CAPSLOCK]

How bad really was the squad Allardyce left? It was in decline yes, and would have struggled even if he had stayed to finish in the top 8 again, but the idea you go from 7th one year to 20th after 10 games and 16th after 38 without some very poor management is ridiculous. He left us a front three of Anelka, Diouf and Davies, he left us Jaaskelainen and Faye. Those players should still have been nowhere near the bottom of the table.

I watched just about every game post Christmas

They were not the performances of a good team

Lack of motivation, lack of skill, lack of legs?????

Whatever, we were shit

The performances at Boro and Spurs in particular were shit with capital S H I and T

The following season would have been very tricky, for whatever reason

A strength of our organisation was said to be the backroom

Now, by the time Megson arrived, said back office had gone, either taken by Sam or booted out by Sammy

3 months later we sold our best player

[H. Pedersen]

That Allardyce was a better manager than Megson is not in question. That he achieved far greater results is again not in question. But his methods were only going to be good for a certain period and when he realised this he started asking for more and more and more money, sums that a club like ours couldn't and rightly wouldn't support not without some necessary trading or as old Arry would like me to say "wheeler dealering".

Well, what was frustrating is that we ended up giving a ton of money anyway to Megson. I think you're probably right, Allardyce realized we needed investment in order to maintain our position. Gartside didn't realize that until we were deeply in trouble. So he had to loosen the purse strings eventually anyway, but his lack of foresight meant he was handing that 40 million to the guy who bought Elmander instead of the guy who bought Anelka.

[BWFC_Insane]

That Allardyce was a better manager than Megson is not in question. That he achieved far greater results is again not in question. But his methods were only going to be good for a certain period and when he realised this he started asking for more and more and more money, sums that a club like ours couldn't and rightly wouldn't support not without some necessary trading or as old Arry would like me to say "wheeler dealering".

Well, what was frustrating is that we ended up giving a ton of money anyway to Megson. I think you're probably right, Allardyce realized we needed investment in order to maintain our position. Gartside didn't realize that until we were deeply in trouble. So he had to loosen the purse strings eventually anyway, but his lack of foresight meant he was handing that 40 million to the guy who bought Elmander instead of the guy who bought Anelka.

You keep banging on about this but its not accurate.

The reasons there was money to spend for Megson is

a) He sold Anelka, Diouf, Nolan, Braaten, Michalik, Meite for fees, previously Faye had been sold by Lee, Megson also released/lost Campo, Stelios, Andranik, Wilhelmsson, Cid, Speed, plus plenty more.

b) He was in control during an increase in TV revenue some of which was re-invested in the team.

c) Because the squad had been practically decimated and there were not the free transfers around, Eddie Davies invested an extra small amount to allow him to buy players.

Remember that Allardyce received around 10M in his final full season (without selling anyone) to sign Anelka and Meite.

There is absolutely nothing to suggest that if Allardyce had stuck around he wouldn't have seen what Megson had seen to spend bearing in mind he'd been entrusted with 10M in his final season. However, to expect massive cash without selling players at Bolton was just unrealistic.

[Prufrock]

How bad really was the squad Allardyce left? It was in decline yes, and would have struggled even if he had stayed to finish in the top 8 again, but the idea you go from 7th one year to 20th after 10 games and 16th after 38 without some very poor management is ridiculous. He left us a front three of Anelka, Diouf and Davies, he left us Jaaskelainen and Faye. Those players should still have been nowhere near the bottom of the table.

I watched just about every game post Christmas

They were not the performances of a good team

Lack of motivation, lack of skill, lack of legs?????

Whatever, we were shit

The performances at Boro and Spurs in particular were shit with capital S H I and T

The following season would have been very tricky, for whatever reason

A strength of our organisation was said to be the backroom

Now, by the time Megson arrived, said back office had gone, either taken by Sam or booted out by Sammy

3 months later we sold our best player

Tricky? Yes. 5 points from 10 games? Christ no. As I said, even if Allardyce had stayed we'd have struggled to maintain those heights. However, even after Megson arrived we pulled clear for a bit, before being sucked back in. That shows that those players could still perform at this level, if not at the same consistent level. Sammy Lee fooked it. Letting Faye go and leaving us with Cid, Michalik, Meite and O'Brien at the back. That and fooking off the whole set-up that made us succesful. Megson was good at salvaging, but shite at building.

[Prufrock]

That Allardyce was a better manager than Megson is not in question. That he achieved far greater results is again not in question. But his methods were only going to be good for a certain period and when he realised this he started asking for more and more and more money, sums that a club like ours couldn't and rightly wouldn't support not without some necessary trading or as old Arry would like me to say "wheeler dealering".

Well, what was frustrating is that we ended up giving a ton of money anyway to Megson. I think you're probably right, Allardyce realized we needed investment in order to maintain our position. Gartside didn't realize that until we were deeply in trouble. So he had to loosen the purse strings eventually anyway, but his lack of foresight meant he was handing that 40 million to the guy who bought Elmander instead of the guy who bought Anelka.

Lack of foresight? By foresight do you mean 'ability to predict the future'? You seem to, and as such I think it's a tad unfair to keep blaming our generally excellent chairman for his lack of oracular skillz. Even accepting your premise that we spent £40 million quid net, then it was £40million we did not and do not have. Essentially you seem to be saying that given the choice our chairman would probably do a few things differently over again. Yeah. I reckon he might.

[bw@bw]

Some lack of perspective here.

Allardyce took us from being below Stockport County, and almost as bust - to being in the top 8 of the Premier League regularly, whilst spending an average of about £3million per season on transfer fees.

Megson took us from 20th in the premier League to 18th and spent an average of £20m per season on transfer fees.

There is simply no comparison.

Gartside made 2 big mistakes. The first was not backing Allardyce with cash in the January window when we were on terms with the top 4 and had a realistic- if outside - chance of making the Champions League.
The second was appointing Sammy Lee (though at the time the continuity made sense).

Megson was not a mistake.
We were in a mess.
He sorted it out.
That does not mean he could ever build anything himself.

Mess sorted, time to make way for a builder

[CAPSLOCK]

Some lack of perspective here.

Allardyce took us from being below Stockport County, and almost as bust - to being in the top 8 of the Premier League regularly, whilst spending an average of about £3million per season on transfer fees.

Not from me

Allardyce did a magnificent job

Its amazing there were clowns on here moaning about the football we played under him

I don't give him that much credit for he promotion to the Prem..anything else would've been failure, imo

Keeping us up for 6 or 7 years is/was nothing less than amazing and can't be praised enough

Doesn't mean he left us in a good spot

[H. Pedersen]

Lack of foresight? By foresight do you mean 'ability to predict the future'? You seem to, and as such I think it's a tad unfair to keep blaming our generally excellent chairman for his lack of oracular skillz. Even accepting your premise that we spent £40 million quid net, then it was £40million we did not and do not have. Essentially you seem to be saying that given the choice our chairman would probably do a few things differently over again. Yeah. I reckon he might.

Well I don't think it would take an oracle to see that some of our players were getting up there. Nor would it take an oracle to know that the players Sammy Lee was bringing in weren't going to be up to the job. Not that Lee got much to work with, in his defense.

[Prufrock]

Lack of foresight? By foresight do you mean 'ability to predict the future'? You seem to, and as such I think it's a tad unfair to keep blaming our generally excellent chairman for his lack of oracular skillz. Even accepting your premise that we spent £40 million quid net, then it was £40million we did not and do not have. Essentially you seem to be saying that given the choice our chairman would probably do a few things differently over again. Yeah. I reckon he might.

Well I don't think it would take an oracle to see that some of our players were getting up there. Nor would it take an oracle to know that the players Sammy Lee was bringing in weren't going to be up to the job. Not that Lee got much to work with, in his defense.

Well go on then, find me your posts where you predicted it then. There was a genuine sense that the Sammy Lee was the most sensible call. Fecking hindsight. We were told Cid was one of the best upcoming defenders around.