Travel to West Brom

[Montreal Wanderer]

Anyway, West Brom away! Shall we have a riot there? If so, I'll blame Robert Peel for repealing the corn laws.

Oh, and the usual match preview and report shout out from moi

Too little, too late. Tory bastard!

And he only did that because of his fear of the masses organised in the chartist movement.

Talk about revisionism, William! He was actually quite liberal for a Tory and had a conscience. His dad was quite advanced in making things better for the workers. It had to be done, but he did it because Lord John Russell refused to form a government and "handed back with courtesy the poisoned chalice" or something. It split the Tory party, Gladstone's half becoming the Liberal party and Disraeli's becoming the Conservatives. The Whigs just faded away or joined the Liberals. The Chartists were never that much of a threat and the Duke of Wellington in his last public appearance got rid of them. The Charter turned out to contain a large number of unacceptable signatures including Mr. Punch. IMHO of course.

[Prufrock]

You seem to be challenged at whatever slow reading is.

Now leave me out of this.

Indeed - but you joined in! As a matter of interest how long do you think it takes an incoming PM (even TINA) to reverse a trend?

Careful starting down that route, look at 1974 and 75's inflation figure. Sauce for the goose etc.

And as it happens, much as everyone wants to pick sides, save for Atlee in the immediate post-war and the first half decade of Thatcher, we've had a cigarette paper between the parties ever since. We're being done.

There needs to be a "dah-dah" sound for this, the opposite of the oft debated 'uch-ner' sound of family fortunes.

Also Enfield, whilst keeping it in context himself has reminded me of another bugbear. 'Now is the winter of our discontent' when people are doing badly. Cock off. That quote is a quote of praise. It isn't a nice speech, but a positive quote.

Back to Maggie, it's a tired argument, for what it's worth I'll be in line for the public urinal that her grave shall become, but I understand how she splits crowds. It's an argument that wont be resolved on here. Those who come down on the 'she's a bitch' side might enjoy boththis and this (first one is a cover of the brilliant Chris TT, can't find an original that isn't from a mobile phone)

[Worthy4England]

And all in just 18 months

What an amazing woman

That she is.

But I'm looking forward to the party...

Me too.

[William the White]

Anyway, West Brom away! Shall we have a riot there? If so, I'll blame Robert Peel for repealing the corn laws.

Oh, and the usual match preview and report shout out from moi

Too little, too late. Tory bastard!

And he only did that because of his fear of the masses organised in the chartist movement.

Talk about revisionism, William! He was actually quite liberal for a Tory and had a conscience. His dad was quite advanced in making things better for the workers. It had to be done, but he did it because Lord John Russell refused to form a government and "handed back with courtesy the poisoned chalice" or something. It split the Tory party, Gladstone's half becoming the Liberal party and Disraeli's becoming the Conservatives. The Whigs just faded away or joined the Liberals. The Chartists were never that much of a threat and the Duke of Wellington in his last public appearance got rid of them. The Charter turned out to contain a large number of unacceptable signatures including Mr. Punch. IMHO of course.

Well, you know, Monty, that post was a bit of a tease and a bit of self-parody...

But your own revisionism should not go unchallenged - what kind of approach to history reckons that the Duke of Wellington (or Lenin) are instrumental in dealing with historical shifts in the way you imply...? I thought historical enquiry had grown up a bit from that...

It's true that the petitions for the charter (Not the charter itself, which contained six democratic demands, five of them now realised or bettered) - like all petitions - had a number of phoney signatures on them, and that the bunch of well-heeled reactionaries in parliament had a good sneer at them once they felt safe. It's also true that the chartists faded away as a force after 1848... Perhaps the passing of the 'hungry 40s' was of greater significance than the political 'genius' of Wellington... And some have argued that the repeal of the corn laws contributed greatly to this... others that they didn't much, but better weather did...

[Zulus Thousand of em]

I'll not respond to your tendentious recounting of recent history by an equally tendentious one of my own. For once.

Good.

However... In which world do you think I want to get rid of democracy and turn the country over to the TUC (for the most part, though it's improved, a bureaucratic organisation selective in its response to its members.

Checking back on my post I'm not sure that I accused you of any such thing. Have I touched a nerve?

[thebish]

I'll not respond to your tendentious recounting of recent history by an equally tendentious one of my own. For once.

Good.

However... In which world do you think I want to get rid of democracy and turn the country over to the TUC (for the most part, though it's improved, a bureaucratic organisation selective in its response to its members.

Checking back on my post I'm not sure that I accused you of any such thing. Have I touched a nerve?

amusing as this constant william-baiting is - what about travel to west brom? You're worse than me and Tango...

[William the White]

I'll not respond to your tendentious recounting of recent history by an equally tendentious one of my own. For once.

Good.

However... In which world do you think I want to get rid of democracy and turn the country over to the TUC (for the most part, though it's improved, a bureaucratic organisation selective in its response to its members.

Checking back on my post I'm not sure that I accused you of any such thing. Have I touched a nerve?

I'll take your lack of certainty as an admission of guilt, and accept your apology. now, put your bayonet away.

[Zulus Thousand of em]

I'll not respond to your tendentious recounting of recent history by an equally tendentious one of my own. For once.

Good.

However... In which world do you think I want to get rid of democracy and turn the country over to the TUC (for the most part, though it's improved, a bureaucratic organisation selective in its response to its members.

Checking back on my post I'm not sure that I accused you of any such thing. Have I touched a nerve?

amusing as this constant william-baiting is - what about travel to west brom? You're worse than me and Tango...

No -we're better than you and Tango. Much subtler, the pair of us.

[Zulus Thousand of em]

I'll not respond to your tendentious recounting of recent history by an equally tendentious one of my own. For once.

Good.

However... In which world do you think I want to get rid of democracy and turn the country over to the TUC (for the most part, though it's improved, a bureaucratic organisation selective in its response to its members.

Checking back on my post I'm not sure that I accused you of any such thing. Have I touched a nerve?

I'll take your lack of certainty as an admission of guilt, and accept your apology. now, put your bayonet away.

No apology to accept - as none was forthcoming. And I'm only polishing the bayonet anyway.

[Bruce Rioja]

Is John Wile playing?

[Zulus Thousand of em]

Is John Wile playing?

I had forgotten how shite he was!

[BWFC_Wyles]

£25.....that's relatively reasonable! I'm debating whether to go or not.....they are in great form

[Montreal Wanderer]

Anyway, West Brom away! Shall we have a riot there? If so, I'll blame Robert Peel for repealing the corn laws.

Oh, and the usual match preview and report shout out from moi

Too little, too late. Tory bastard!

And he only did that because of his fear of the masses organised in the chartist movement.

Talk about revisionism, William! He was actually quite liberal for a Tory and had a conscience. His dad was quite advanced in making things better for the workers. It had to be done, but he did it because Lord John Russell refused to form a government and "handed back with courtesy the poisoned chalice" or something. It split the Tory party, Gladstone's half becoming the Liberal party and Disraeli's becoming the Conservatives. The Whigs just faded away or joined the Liberals. The Chartists were never that much of a threat and the Duke of Wellington in his last public appearance got rid of them. The Charter turned out to contain a large number of unacceptable signatures including Mr. Punch. IMHO of course.

Well, you know, Monty, that post was a bit of a tease and a bit of self-parody...

But your own revisionism should not go unchallenged - what kind of approach to history reckons that the Duke of Wellington (or Lenin) are instrumental in dealing with historical shifts in the way you imply...? I thought historical enquiry had grown up a bit from that...

Oh, it has and I have sympathy for the Chartists and most of the other 1848 movements. I only suggested they were not considered much of a threat at the time, and certainly did not influence Peel in his actions. He knew the Corn Laws should be repealed but wanted it done by Russell and his freetrade party rather than the protectionist tories. He knew the effect the repeal would have on his party. However, when Russell declined, he went ahead and did the right thing despite the known consequences. For that, and other things, I admire him.

It's true that the petitions for the charter (Not the charter itself, which contained six democratic demands, five of them now realised or bettered) - like all petitions - had a number of phoney signatures on them, and that the bunch of well-heeled reactionaries in parliament had a good sneer at them once they felt safe. It's also true that the chartists faded away as a force after 1848... Perhaps the passing of the 'hungry 40s' was of greater significance than the political 'genius' of Wellington... And some have argued that the repeal of the corn laws contributed greatly to this... others that they didn't much, but better weather did... Wellington's actions were not really political or genius of any sort. He was just trotted out at the head of some soldiery to disperse a march. His only political achievement was Catholic Emancipation, some two decades earlier, and was probably done against his better arch conservative judgment. Useful soldier though. Whatever the effects of the repeal on popular content (and better weather may have been a factor) the effect on the party structure of the British parliament was dramatic before the rise of the Labour Party changed things further.

[Bruce Rioja]

Is Frank Skinner playing?

[CAPSLOCK]

Will Adrian Childs be in The Vine, again?

[Gary the Enfield]

Will Adrian Childs be in The Vine, again?

My dad told me he was there the last time they were up. Apparently it was his birthday and selected Toadies were singing 'Happy Birthday' when, at the end one of the Bolton crowd shouted ''Happy 50th!!!!''

He wasn't amused.

[Salford Trotter]

I've just been up to get my 4 tickets and we sold just short of 700 so far so it's looking like 1000 travelling in total i reckon which is disappointing given our recent form

[General Mannerheim]

poor - i cant think of much reason for not going? apart from not being a fan of BWFC...

[bedwetter2]

I'll not respond to your tendentious recounting of recent history by an equally tendentious one of my own. For once.

Good.

However... In which world do you think I want to get rid of democracy and turn the country over to the TUC (for the most part, though it's improved, a bureaucratic organisation selective in its response to its members.

Checking back on my post I'm not sure that I accused you of any such thing. Have I touched a nerve?

I'll take your lack of certainty as an admission of guilt, and accept your apology. now, put your bayonet away.

Please, please keep going. This is great!
The workers are revolting......and a little bit smelly, too.