bolton/baggies match thread

[BWFC_Insane]

Morrisson is their left winger is he not?

So technically Taylor shouldn't even be picking him up, Steinsson should. I think once balls like that come in with that quality the forwards are always likely to be favourite.

We should also have a similar expectation at the other end, when our players are through on goal, like say Elmander last week and Petrov this.

Expectation of what? Getting on the end of quality crosses? Tis what I was talking about.

Expectation that the forward should be favourite, when there's no defenders between him and the goal.

I have to say this talk about Taylor, for me is bollocks in some measure (as opposed to complete bollocks). Morrison should have been his man, and he doesn't pick him up. But Robinson, we know had things to do, Steinnson has a bloke coming in behind him. Cahill and Knight? Knight's off over to help out Robbo in case he gets done for skill and Cahill also heads over there too. There wasn't a central defender anywhere between our posts.

Result when the ball comes in?

Morrison's got acres of space in which to run, Cahill's in the middle of nowhere, picking no on up, we leave it to Taylor to clear the lines (not noted for his heading ability - well according to many Bolton fans, not noted for very much of anything). It didn't even have to be a very accurate cross.

It was poor from Taylor, but it was poor from a good few others as well.

Looking at it from West Brom's perspective, it was a good goal with a late break from Morrison.

I suspect had it not been Taylor tracking him there wouldn't be half the "analysis" going on, but as Petrov's hardly ripping up trees at the minute, people need to point out just how shit Taylor is to make Petrov look like he's having a blinder.

I agree with a lot of that. But what I originally meant is when you get caught on the break like that well I say "break" it was a long ball over the top that caught Knight out (remember he was marking Odemwingie their striker all afternoon), I say caught out but the lad was offside, once you're left stretched a good delivery always gives the attacking side the edge in terms of attacking the ball and getting on the end of it.

I still think that whilst Taylor has tracked the run its not "his man" in the grand scheme of things and that also that sort of cross is really the realm of your centre backs but Knight was out wide picking up his man, the one who crossed it! Robinson was tracking Barnes out there also. In those positions really we need to try and do everything we can to stop the cross coming over as once it does, you have a massive problem if its any good. But if we weren't chasing the game at 1-0 up we'd have been set in the middle to deal with a cross and possibly wouldn't have had the issue in the first place.

[Bijou Bob]

Watched the match live in the pub (Thank God for dodgy Sky) and thought in the first half we were outnumbered far too often in midfield and we gave them far too much room to play the ball.

When we got the ball down and passed it through midfield, at times we looked fantastic; quick, short passes, plenty of movement off the ball and we created chances. Occassionally though, we lapsed into playing that floated diagonal ball for SKD's head and it was clear that the ref wasn't going to give him anything all day, so it became a pointless tactic.

Petrov still puzzles me, flashes of brilliance between long periods of thinking "Where's he gone to"?

Both Taylor and Jussi at fault for their goal. I was always taught that a ball into the 6 yard box is a keeper's and we'd had one or two crosses before that where Jussi was rooted to his line as usual. The blokes a great shot stopper, but does the GK coach never take a look and think "Hmm, need to work on kicking a ball straight and commanding his box this week"? Seems not. taylor didn't cover the ground and given that their goalscorer was the only man likely to make it into the box for the cross, stop him at all costs.

Happy before the match with a point and still happy, but we do need to start winning our home games to widen the gap between us and the bottom 3.

[ohjimmyjimmy]

Each time i see it, RObinson's effort in stopping the cross looks poorer & poorer.

Odemwingie was given too much time & space to shift it onto his right foot and measure his cross, makes me wonder if Robinson's a bit concerned about being a 'marked-man' with refs at the moment? He seemed reluctuant to make any kind of tackle on the crosser, it was very half-hearted.

Of course, what follows can also be debated about who should have tracked who, but really that cross should never have come in.

[drifter]

Takin Lee out for Taylor was a big mistake. Everything went bad after the sub.

Should have taken Petrov off since he was having a shite day.

[taz1004]

Takin Lee out for Taylor was a big mistake. Everything went bad after the sub.

Should have taken Petrov off since he was having a shite day.

Didn't understand that either. Was Lee given some rest for the international? Very thoughtful of Coyle but wasn't necessary.

[SonsOfThunder]

As bad as Petrov was, Lee looked really 'tired' all game long besides his clever ball (and run) to Davies to set up the goal. I can understand Coyle taking him off to bring on some fresh legs in Taylor and keeping Petrov in; he looked like he had a goal in him that unfortunately never came to fruition. As for Robinson, I can hardly blame him for the way he was defending Odemwingie; Robinson was trying to prevent him from getting past with the ball at his feet straight into the 6-yard box. In that kind of pick-your-poison scenario a cross seems to be the thing you would rather give up.

And I've covered the details of their goal in my last post on page 9 although it seems no one read it...If anyone is at fault for the goal it would have to be Cahill. He is literally standing in front of Jussi and not doing anything. He is the only one who wasn't trying to mark a man. Steinsson is defending someone at the far post, Robinson and Knight were on Odemwingie and Barnes, and Taylor was trying to track Morrison's run. So who is more at fault for West Brom getting a free header in the 6-yard box, Taylor or Cahill?

[ohjimmyjimmy]

As bad as Petrov was, Lee looked really 'tired' all game long besides his clever ball (and run) to Davies to set up the goal. I can understand Coyle taking him off to bring on some fresh legs in Taylor and keeping Petrov in; he looked like he had a goal in him that unfortunately never came to fruition. As for Robinson, I can hardly blame him for the way he was defending Odemwingie; Robinson was trying to prevent him from getting past with the ball at his feet straight into the 6-yard box. In that kind of pick-your-poison scenario a cross seems to be the thing you would rather give up.

And I've covered the details of their goal in my last post on page 9 although it seems no one read it...If anyone is at fault for the goal it would have to be Cahill. He is literally standing in front of Jussi and not doing anything. He is the only one who wasn't trying to mark a man. Steinsson is defending someone at the far post, Robinson and Knight were on Odemwingie and Barnes, and Taylor was trying to track Morrison's run. So who is more at fault for West Brom getting a free header in the 6-yard box, Taylor or Cahill?

If you watch it again. Odemwingie literally telegraphs the change of feet and cross, the speed of the break down the line had stopped, there was no excuse for him in that instance to not make more of an attempt to stop that cross once the rempaging down the line had been checked. Also, the way he held back would have made it just as easy for Odemwingie to charge across him into the box so again that doesn't add up. Also, he was miles from the 6-yard box anyway?

For me, it was a half-hearted effort, not saying the goal was purely his fault, i just think it was a poor effort from him.

As for the bit at the bottom, well, are you not contradicting your point by stating that Taylor was 'trying to track Morrison's run' ? Was it not his job to actually track his run,instead of just fecking trying to?

[Horza]

If you watch it again. Odemwingie literally telegraphs the change of feet and cross, the speed of the break down the line had stopped, there was no excuse for him in that instance to not make more of an attempt to stop that cross once the rempaging down the line had been checked. Also, the way he held back would have made it just as easy for Odemwingie to charge across him into the box so again that doesn't add up. Also, he was miles from the 6-yard box anyway?

What, was there one of these on the sideline?

[Lord Kangana]

Maybe Robinson read the notice?

[BWFC_Insane]

In simplistic terms Odemwingie was Knights man. Knight was out there to try and stop him, otherwise he might as well have got in the box. Robinson was marking Barnes.

If you're 6ft 7 defender is pulled out of the centre then he best try and stop the cross coming in. Especially when your other centre half gets dragged near post and ends up doing nowt!

[ohjimmyjimmy]

There's a lot of 'shouldve-beens' in that summary, but all fair enough.

[BWFC_Insane]

There's a lot of 'shouldve-beens' in that summary, but all fair enough.

Only real point I'm making is strictly speaking Odemwingie was Knights man, although Knight was struggling to get near him most of the game.

[ohjimmyjimmy]

Yes i know, and i do agree.

Its been a couple days since i last saw the goal, but i recall Barnes overlapping Odemwingie and Robinson being left face to face with him (Odemwinge), so for want of giving him a free run on the penalty area, obviously he then had to become Robinson's man, and with Knight out of position and the other CB marking thin air, whoever's man he was in that instance, it was imperative the cross wasn't allowed and Robinson's attempt to close it was poor. Again, its not to single him as being at fault, its just i would have expected him to do more than wait for him to measure his cross up then just stick a leg out.

That said, 20 crosses a game may go in and you'd normally expect the right people to be there to deal with it, and normally you'd be right, so i may be being harsh on Robinson.

[boltonboris]

There's a lot of 'shouldve-beens' in that summary, but all fair enough.

Only real point I'm making is strictly speaking Odemwingie was Knights man, although Knight was struggling to get near him most of the game.

So... When Odemwingie peels of to the flank (which he did. Often.) you think a central defender should be dragged out of position to go and fetch him?

[boltonboris]

Yes i know, and i do agree.

Its been a couple days since i last saw the goal, but i recall Barnes overlapping Odemwingie and Robinson being left face to face with him (Odemwinge), so for want of giving him a free run on the penalty area, obviously he then had to become Robinson's man, and with Knight out of position and the other CB marking thin air, whoever's man he was in that instance, it was imperative the cross wasn't allowed and Robinson's attempt to close it was poor. Again, its not to single him as being at fault, its just i would have expected him to do more than wait for him to measure his cross up then just stick a leg out.

That said, 20 crosses a game may go in and you'd normally expect the right people to be there to deal with it, and normally you'd be right, so i may be being harsh on Robinson.

Pretty much.. I think Robinson had one eys on the overlapping full-back and he probably wanted to pass him (Odemwinge)on to Knight so theat he could track the run of the fullback. Really, he should have just dealt with the immediate threat, which was the ball coming in.. Robbo looked like he was caught in two minds.. Track the runner or stop the cross, in the end he sort of did neither

So in reality, there was 4 maybe 5 (if you count Jussi) who should have done their jobs better.

Robbo: Indecisive
Knight: Should have gone to Odemwinge and let Robbo deal with over-lap
Cahill: Marking space (space has never scored, to my knowledge)
Taylor: Should have gotten goal-side, if not, then make it damn difficult for Morrison to nod it home

It wasn't as if we were short of numbers, just that as a unit, we switched off and were punished

[ohjimmyjimmy]

I guess we could analyse every goal we concede in this way, and usually be able to pick a tactical switch-off involving 4 or 5 players, but we don't normally do this.
So i think we're analysing this particular one so much because it's so frustrating to be close to a good side as we now seem to be, only to then let slip a lead we shouldn't have done. Same with the Utd. game and Owen's header in a box full of (relative) giants. In a way i'm glad...in the past it would be a case of 'oh well, opposition's scored again!'. It's got to be seen as a positive thing, and i'm sure the management is working on fixing exactly what we've been observing. Plus we've only lost 1 in 7, and we were in that game until a lousy sending off....so it's all positive feedback when all's said & done.

In the end though, sometimes the opposition scores goals, it's a fact of the game. You'd just rather it come from their good play as opposed to consistent niggling little switch-offs from our team !

[Worthy4England]

So I think we've probably talked ourselves around to it being a poor team goal to let in.

Rather than it was "Taylor's fault".

Which I think is what many people were saying in the first place.

[boltonboris]

So I think we've probably talked ourselves around to it being a poor team goal to let in.

Rather than it was "Taylor's fault".

Which I think is what many people were saying in the first place.

I did at first, before I got to see the goal again. He was at fault, rather than the fault

[Worthy4England]

So I think we've probably talked ourselves around to it being a poor team goal to let in.

Rather than it was "Taylor's fault".

Which I think is what many people were saying in the first place.

I did at first, before I got to see the goal again. He was at fault, rather than the fault

Yes, along with plenty of others in the team, including but not limited to, Robinson, Cahill, Knight, Jussi, Steinnson, our central midfielders were where? So lets add Muamba and Holden into the mix too.

[Montreal Wanderer]

So I think we've probably talked ourselves around to it being a poor team goal to let in.

Rather than it was "Taylor's fault".

Which I think is what many people were saying in the first place.

I did at first, before I got to see the goal again. He was at fault, rather than the fault

Yes, along with plenty of others in the team, including but not limited to, Robinson, Cahill, Knight, Jussi, Steinnson, our central midfielders were where? So lets add Muamba and Holden into the mix too.

Where was SKD when this happened?