The Politics Thread

[Montreal Wanderer]

We're being screwed. From every direction.

Revolution anyone?

Yay! But shhh....don't let on to Hoboh!

Then make NOTW doesn't find out (online edition that is).

[Worthy4England]

A good point, very well made a1

Anyway...the withdrawal of child benefit to those paying the higeher arte of tax

Fair enough, I guess so long as its part ofa bigger review which outs the scrotes abusing the system

BUT

Why the fcuk is it not based per household

ie if I earn 41 k, no child benefit

If we both earn 39, total 78, its carry on as we were


This aint the first time this method has been used, because the couple earning 78 (39+39) also avoid higher rate tax

Can somebody try to explain how this is fair?


Similarly, I was recently unemployed, but couldn't claim anything cos my wife works over 20 hours a week...the amount she earned being irrelevant, so in theory, if she was a barrister (for example) working a day a week for a thousand or 2 a day, we wouldn't be ruled out of benefits, yet a 21 hour a week cleaner would be ruled out

How very odd

This, in spades.

Fcuking clueless.

For possibly the first time ever on this thread I agree with both Worthy and CAPS

You also have to take into account that at £37K each or whatever, neither are paying 40% tax either - so they earn £74k between them and pay £12,370 in tax. One person earning £74,000 pays £21k.

[thebish]

Can somebody try to explain how this is fair?

why would you inagine it was every going to be fair??

(awwww... little CAPS isn't naive enough to believe the big politicians is he?)


as for why - it's not rocket science. The government that said it was going to simplify the tax system can't really be seen to be adding a quite complex and expensive heavily bureaucratic means-testing layer to what is (essentially) a very simply-administered universal benefit.

that's why.

[CAPSLOCK]

The politicians didn't say it was going to be fair...I was just asking if I'd missed something

Have they not got, y'know a nice shiny computer capable of working stuff out

It aint difficult to know how much is coming into my house in total

[thebish]

The politicians didn't say it was going to be fair...I was just asking if I'd missed something

you didn't listen to the speech OR the interviews then - did you. Every one of them has crammed the word "fair" 20 times into every interview. so - errr.... - yes, they did.

[Montreal Wanderer]

Can somebody try to explain how this is fair?

why would you inagine it was every going to be fair??

(awwww... little CAPS isn't naive enough to believe the big politicians is he?)


as for why - it's not rocket science. The government that said it was going to simplify the tax system can't really be seen to be adding a quite complex and expensive heavily bureaucratic means-testing layer to what is (essentially) a very simply-administered universal benefit.

that's why.

Getting a figure for family income cannot be that complex can it?

[thebish]

Can somebody try to explain how this is fair?

why would you inagine it was every going to be fair??

(awwww... little CAPS isn't naive enough to believe the big politicians is he?)


as for why - it's not rocket science. The government that said it was going to simplify the tax system can't really be seen to be adding a quite complex and expensive heavily bureaucratic means-testing layer to what is (essentially) a very simply-administered universal benefit.

that's why.

Getting a figure for family income cannot be that complex can it?

means-testing is massively bureaucratic and means employing civil servants - and everyone knows that is bad, very bad. peoples incomes change every year - sometimes several times a year - which would then mean constant recalculation - and checking to see if people were telling the truth..

[Gravedigger]

I'm watching with interest the announcement of the "Average family income" on which those on benefits will be restricted to. I think the average wage is £28000. The Daily Wail posts

The average annual salary has dropped by more than £2,600 in the last six months, it emerged today.
New figures reveal employers are still exercising caution, with wages falling across the board from £28,207 to £25,543 - a difference of £2,664.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z11QQkMaPl

So if we have a Hubby and Wife on total of £56000, is this the amount benefits claimants will be restricted to. And could you give me some idea as to the "Working class" jobs in the north that pay £28000? This is going to raise so much confusion at the glitchy tax, benefits, employment computers that it'll cost ten billion to save one billion.
Should be a very interesting future.

[Montreal Wanderer]

Can somebody try to explain how this is fair?

why would you inagine it was every going to be fair??

(awwww... little CAPS isn't naive enough to believe the big politicians is he?)


as for why - it's not rocket science. The government that said it was going to simplify the tax system can't really be seen to be adding a quite complex and expensive heavily bureaucratic means-testing layer to what is (essentially) a very simply-administered universal benefit.

that's why.

Getting a figure for family income cannot be that complex can it?

means-testing is massively bureaucratic and means employing civil servants - and everyone knows that is bad, very bad. peoples incomes change every year - sometimes several times a year - which would then mean constant recalculation - and checking to see if people were telling the truth..

Well, I meant from the Income Tax people - they must know family income. Perhaps I just don't understand the problem. Over here every worker just out of a job is entitled to claim unemployment insurance benefits (the time may vary according to amount previously worked). Any family below a certain income level can get welfare payments.

[thebish]

I can understand coalition government - in that often one of the partners will have to ditch an election promise because they have traded it for something else with other partner who had it as part of their plans...

but - when both partners to the coalition promised not to means-test child benefit, it is harder to see why being in coalition would make you change your mind...

Cleggy said this on April 12th:

"We are not putting child benefit into question. I never have and he hasn't either", (referring to himself and Cable, and excusing Cable's reference to means-testing child benefit in the Chancellor's debate as "a simple verbal slip")

and - for the Tories - Philip Hammond on April 27th:

"We have made a decision to rule out means testing child benefit because it is a universal benefit. Talking to people, one of the things they appreciate about child benefit that it is universal and easily understood. To start to means test it would erode it ... It reassures them about the availability of the benefit. If you start means testing it, if you start slicing away at that universality, then people are going to ask where you are going to stop".

[CAPSLOCK]

The politicians didn't say it was going to be fair...I was just asking if I'd missed something

you didn't listen to the speech OR the interviews then - did you. Every one of them has crammed the word "fair" 20 times into every interview. so - errr.... - yes, they did.

No , I didn't

I have a proper job

And the bloke I heard being interviewed on Radio 5 about 5.30 didn't say it would be fair...just that it was less likely they'd fcuk it up

FWIW, I'd just withdraw it across the board

That'd be even easier!

[Worthy4England]

The politicians didn't say it was going to be fair...I was just asking if I'd missed something

you didn't listen to the speech OR the interviews then - did you. Every one of them has crammed the word "fair" 20 times into every interview. so - errr.... - yes, they did.

No , I didn't

I have a proper job

And the bloke I heard being interviewed on Radio 5 about 5.30 didn't say it would be fair...just that it was less likely they'd fcuk it up

FWIW, I'd just withdraw it across the board

That'd be even easier!

I could understand that - although I wouldn't agree with it.

I could understand putting it as a measure of family earnings - which I could agree with.

This half assed thing they've come up with is just plain stupid.

[H. Pedersen]

Why is anybody getting paid to bring another person into this overpopulated world?

[thebish]

Why is anybody getting paid to bring another person into this overpopulated world?

why are you adding to this overpopulated thread?

[Bruce Rioja]

Why is anybody getting paid to bring another person into this overpopulated world?

Exactly, and we're right back to - if you want kids why should anyone else pick up their tab?

[Worthy4England]

Why is anybody getting paid to bring another person into this overpopulated world?

Should we be getting rid of some of the ones that are here?

[Worthy4England]

Why is anybody getting paid to bring another person into this overpopulated world?

Exactly, and we're right back to - if you want kids why should anyone else pick up their tab?

No doubt you'll be offering to pay back the amounts your parents recieved for you (index linked of course)

I seriously doubt that people who are generally in work, have kids, because they'll get £20 a week off the government for the first child and £13 for subsequent ones.

So the overpopulation argument in the UK is fairly nonsensical.

[ratbert]

Lucky old me has the (dubious) honour of working at a stand at the Tory conference here in sunny Brum. We've been visited by Eric Pickles and Damian Green and the BBC's John Pienaar has walked past about 80,000 times. Yesterday I was helping poor old ex-cbainet minister Peter Lilley plot his way back to Walsall Travelodge by bus. How the trappings of high office swiftly depart!

[Lord Kangana]

Did Eric Pickles look like he was doing a very important job?

[thebish]

Lucky old me has the (dubious) honour of working at a stand at the Tory conference here in sunny Brum. We've been visited by Eric Pickles and Damian Green and the BBC's John Pienaar has walked past about 80,000 times. Yesterday I was helping poor old ex-cbainet minister Peter Lilley plot his way back to Walsall Travelodge by bus. How the trappings of high office swiftly depart!

LOL - those who govern us can't find their way to a travelodge on a bus!!