Rovers 0 Sunderland 0 - Thank Your Lucky Stars!

[bobo the clown]

Elliot played 4 games. September.

Broke his leg v Everton in the first ever competitive game at the Reebok.

The Gerry Taggart scored, but the ref didn't give it so we drew & Everton went to on stay up intead of us on goal difference game. You'll recall that one.

[Lofthouse Lower]

Elliot played 4 games. September.

Broke his leg v Everton in the first ever competitive game at the Reebok.

You don't say

[BWFC_Insane]

They might not have done the business that season, but Elliott and Holdsworth were excellent for us under Sam.

They were but both used in differing ways to how Todd used them.

Elliot played till what, November? As a left back for Todd, and Holdsworth partnered Blake.

But Holdsworth only coped once Allardyce used him as a target man, focal point.

So you agree, they were good signings.

I can see it either way, they turned into useful players for us, though mainly at a lower level but did not do the job they needed to in terms of keeping us up.

Suppose its similar to the Elmander debate in that he didn't do the business for the manager who signed him but looks like a player under a new man.

Depends how you look at things.

[Lofthouse Lower]

Hopefully Elmander's pay drop will be indicative of his abysmal 24 month Bolton career

[BWFC_Insane]

Elliot played 4 games. September.

Jeez was it that early? I was sure he played a bit longer than that.

Ah well. Memory playing tricks.

[Lord Kangana]

Aye, am I not right in saying that many of our players had relegation clauses in their contracts that led to lower pay? And that was one of the reasons Big Ged wanted to leave, they were offering him less money?

[Il Pirate]

Elliot played 4 games. September.

Broke his leg v Everton in the first ever competitive game at the Reebok.

The Gerry Taggart scored, but the ref didn't give it so we drew & Everton went to on stay up intead of us on goal difference game. You'll recall that one.

I wonder what our fortunes would have been, compared to what we now know is our history, if the goal had stood and we'd stayed up that year?

[Trotski]

In the last 15 years Sammy Lee strikes me as a shining beacon of sh*teness.

Allardyce left him a decent set up and he got everything wrong from then on. Being Scandinavian I was ready to fire him after his first couple of transfers, that were so obviously too too poor for the premiership.

Must be a candidate for worst manager anywhere over the last 10 years or so.

[BWFC_Insane]

In the last 15 years Sammy Lee strikes me as a shining beacon of sh*teness.

Allardyce left him a decent set up and he got everything wrong from then on. Being Scandinavian I was ready to fire him after his first couple of transfers, that were so obviously too too poor for the premiership.

Must be a candidate for worst manager anywhere over the last 10 years or so.

You are right in that Sammy Lee was never ever a manager.

But wrong that Allardyce left him a decent set up.

The whole club crumbled apart when Allardyce left as his whole backroom team (and I think we're talking well over 50 employees in total) left the club over the proceeding few months.

And then they were replaced. And some of those left very quickly indeed aswell.

Was like revolving doors. Wasn't easy for Lee.

But I think with hindsight it was a very bad decision to appoint him in the first place. Alls well that ends well though.

[Trotski]

I do agree that the organizational side of things were pretty abysmal, but the positives were many. The old and expensive players contracts running out leaving room for new signings, Anelka still on the books, European football to look forward to and every single fan hungry for a new look and a new style. It left him with the unique possibility to put his own stamp on things.

And he did!

[BWFC_Insane]

I do agree that the organizational side of things were pretty abysmal, but the positives were many. The old and expensive players contracts running out leaving room for new signings, Anelka still on the books, European football to look forward to and every single fan hungry for a new look and a new style. It left him with the unique possibility to put his own stamp on things.

And he did!

I think that was the outside perception. But the club was in turmoil and Lee wasn't strong enough to hold it together.

Gartside has actually said they made a mistake trying to patch things up and keep it together, he said they should have brought a new manager in, replaced the backroom staff without trying to keep any of them and sold those players that wanted out and started afresh.

Easy to say now, but at the time that would have had its own backlash.

[Big_Girl_Oral_Explosion]

In my time watching Bolton Wanderers we have had three great managers:

Ian Greaves
Bruce Rioch
Sam Allardyce

From everything I've seen so far the fourth will be Owen Coyle.

Allardyce is in there though, on merit. Never mind the manner of his departure or his subsequent career.

I would agree 100%. Would only add that Allardyce had a vision and a plan that was different from any other manager in 1999 and got bwfc promoted, into a final two play offs and improved the clubs position year on year. That plan was then copied by many. He also attracted some fantastic players who opposition fans enjoyed watching just as much as we did.

for me allardyce for all his media faults and his misguided attempts to model himself on SAF has been Boltons best manager since the 60's, even though i probably enjoyed watching bolton more under rioch. Coyle has made a good start but he needs another two seasons before he can be truly judged against the other three.



His (allardyce) record at bolton can only be critised by immature geeks or stupid idiots. having said that they are also entitled to their opinions.

[Worthy4England]

Allardyce has gone stale and lost interest.

I'd have thought that would be obvious to everyone?

He lost his real drive and passion when he didn't get the England job.

Had to be "persuaded" to stay for his last season at Bolton. That proved to be a mistake.

I know you like banging this particular drum, but he still got a reasonable points haul last season from a club that had to sell its better players...

[TKIZ!]

Big Sam was one of our best managers regardless of how he left the club. Yes it felt awful when he went on to join the Toon. Yes it felt like he twisted the knife in further by joining the Dingles up the road. He left us with some amazing memories and some startlingly good players. Some startlingly s***e players (Blessing Kaku and Oscar Perez, anyone) as well.

Toddy brought us attacking verve and no-one can erase that 96-97 season from my memory as it was awesome.

My three would be:

Bruce Rioch
Colin Todd
Sam Allardyce

[bristol_Wanderer3]

Colin Todd was a below average manager, and definitely should not be considered one of our best. Most managers would have been able to keep the 1997/98 squad in the Prem, and most would also have produced a better team with the £10m he spent that season.

BSA is in my opinion our best ever manager in the last 40 years, better than Rioch and Greaves. In those years up to 2006 when he had more humility and was 100% committed to our club he performed miracles, persuading a number of world class players to play for a small town club, and persuading those that run the club to finance the whole thing. His ego eventually got the better of him, and IMO continues to do so, but he provided unforgettable times here that I shall always treasure.

[TKIZ!]

Colin Todd was a below average manager, and definitely should not be considered one of our best. Most managers would have been able to keep the 1997/98 squad in the Prem, and most would also have produced a better team with the £10m he spent that season.

BSA is in my opinion our best ever manager in the last 40 years, better than Rioch and Greaves. In those years up to 2006 when he had more humility and was 100% committed to our club he performed miracles, persuading a number of world class players to play for a small town club, and persuading those that run the club to finance the whole thing. His ego eventually got the better of him, and IMO continues to do so, but he provided unforgettable times here that I shall always treasure.

Technically he did keep us up. It was a referee and his assistant that stopped that being factually correct

[Big_Girl_Oral_Explosion]

Colin Todd was a below average manager, and definitely should not be considered one of our best. Most managers would have been able to keep the 1997/98 squad in the Prem, and most would also have produced a better team with the £10m he spent that season.

BSA is in my opinion our best ever manager in the last 40 years, better than Rioch and Greaves. In those years up to 2006 when he had more humility and was 100% committed to our club he performed miracles, persuading a number of world class players to play for a small town club, and persuading those that run the club to finance the whole thing. His ego eventually got the better of him, and IMO continues to do so, but he provided unforgettable times here that I shall always treasure.

Spot on again!

[Big_Girl_Oral_Explosion]

Colin Todd was a below average manager, and definitely should not be considered one of our best. Most managers would have been able to keep the 1997/98 squad in the Prem, and most would also have produced a better team with the £10m he spent that season.

BSA is in my opinion our best ever manager in the last 40 years, better than Rioch and Greaves. In those years up to 2006 when he had more humility and was 100% committed to our club he performed miracles, persuading a number of world class players to play for a small town club, and persuading those that run the club to finance the whole thing. His ego eventually got the better of him, and IMO continues to do so, but he provided unforgettable times here that I shall always treasure.

Technically he did keep us up. It was a referee and his assistant that stopped that being factually correct

Nay lad! bit like saying that Felgate cost us a place in the FA cup final with his flap in 92 or Deano cost us the cup in 99 with his semi miss. There was a whole season to rectify that misfortune against Everton. Over a season these things should even things out and a good manager should put that behind them. we only needed a point against a Chelsea 2nd eleven whose fans where willing us to win so that would even that Everton game out!

[BWFC_Insane]

Allardyce has gone stale and lost interest.

I'd have thought that would be obvious to everyone?

He lost his real drive and passion when he didn't get the England job.

Had to be "persuaded" to stay for his last season at Bolton. That proved to be a mistake.

I know you like banging this particular drum, but he still got a reasonable points haul last season from a club that had to sell its better players...

Losing drive and passion doesn't make him hopeless.

But its clear that deep down his hearts not really in it. He will do ok at Blackburn no doubt. But I don't think he has that extra % to push them on that little bit further.

[CAPSLOCK]

In my time watching Bolton Wanderers we have had three great managers:

Ian Greaves
Bruce Rioch
Sam Allardyce

From everything I've seen so far the fourth will be Owen Coyle.

Allardyce is in there though, on merit. Never mind the manner of his departure or his subsequent career.

... and I give you .... Mr James Armfield esq.

C'mon Zulu, keep up

I've not forgiven him for abandoning us and going to Leeds...

Yes, fair point. Imagine leaving us to take over at the then Champions and getting them to the European Cup Final. Bad Jimmy, bad-bad Jimmy.

Certainly seems a little odd to allow Rioch in the list but not Armfield