The Politics Thread

[thebish]

be fair...

there is a plan - it's called The Big Society

it means that the "third sector" (voluntary groups, community groups and faith groups - that kind of thing) will pick up all the slack in social care/youth work/prisoner rehabilitation etc... and will be encouraged to do this by slashing funding to local authorities who would normally outsource this kind of work to the third sector - but now can't because Hoboh wants his bin emptying every day and will shout if it doesn't happen...

it'll be great! Deaf old bats who currently smell of biscuits in charity shops will now have new opportunities to run your local library.

so - stop it with your lame criticisms - get real - this is the new britain.

[boltonboris]

Its not all bad y'know:

http://news.carrentals.co.uk/goldman-sa ... 19301.html

At least I'll sleep tonight, knowing that some are okay!

The worst thing about that is that 95% of the pool will go to a select few at the top of the ladder (as always) and the grafters at the bottom who earn about £12k a year will get feck all excpet their P45's when the bigwigs realise they've overset themselves.

I worked at RBS/Natwest briefly about 8 years ago. I remeber recieving a circular stating that despite the positive press, there would be no bonuses or incentives for the coming year.. 10 minutes later, I heard 2 of the CSC managers comparing what they were going to spend their bonuses on????!! One of them was off on her jollies (6 weeks in South Africa, Australia and New Zealand no less), the other was buying a car for her daughter (An Audi TT she apparantly had her eye on!)

[Lord Kangana]

Greed is good.

[William the White]

be fair...

there is a plan - it's called The Big Society

it means that the "third sector" (voluntary groups, community groups and faith groups - that kind of thing) will pick up all the slack in social care/youth work/prisoner rehabilitation etc... and will be encouraged to do this by slashing funding to local authorities who would normally outsource this kind of work to the third sector - but now can't because Hoboh wants his bin emptying every day and will shout if it doesn't happen...

it'll be great! Deaf old bats who currently smell of biscuits in charity shops will now have new opportunities to run your local library.

so - stop it with your lame criticisms - get real - this is the new britain.

hoboh's poking around in bins looking for his tea... And castaway objects with which to make works of art...

[thebish]

Two things that Georgey said yesterday...

1. This is absolutely based on fairness - we are all in this together...

yet.. the Institute for Fiscal Studies (Independant research body that the Tories approve of) have done the figures and found it all to be regressive - and hitting the poor much harder than hitting the rich.

2. We are cutting less from Welfare than Labour would have (he made huge play of this and drew many Tory cheers)

yet.. the Institute for Fiscal Studies (Independant research body that the Tories approve of) have worked it out and found this to be totally untrue.

[BWFC_Insane]

Two things that Georgey said yesterday...

1. This is absolutely based on fairness - we are all in this together...

yet.. the Institute for Fiscal Studies (Independant research body that the Tories approve of) have done the figures and found it all to be regressive - and hitting the poor much harder than hitting the rich.

2. We are cutting less from Welfare than Labour would have (he made huge play of this and drew many Tory cheers)

yet.. the Institute for Fiscal Studies (Independant research body that the Tories approve of) have worked it out and found this to be totally untrue.

Tories in hammering the poor and lying through their teeth about it shocker.

[thebish]

Here's summat I wonder about...

Yeserday was the big set piece - the showpiece announcement..

but...

If you actually listened to it - a very large percentage of these savings are far easier to "announce" than to achieve..

an awful lot is hidden in very vague phrases like "changes in the way we do procurement across govt depts" and "efficiency in govt departments" and "integrated back-office strategies"

all of this is easy to ANNOUNCE - but history has shown it is far less easy to deliver..

how much of this £80-odd billion do you reckon will ACTUALLY be saved over the next 4 years? (and will we ever know?)

[William the White]

Researching the wealth tax (a tax routinely levied in France and about to be reintroduced in Spain) it seems that the top 10% of the wealthy in Britain have a combined wealth of £4000 billion.

A modest one off wealth tax at 2% would, at least in theory, bring in the £80 billion that Osborne is currently inflicting huge societal damage and pain to achieve. And in this way he could perhaps make a plea for mitigation when faced with the 8th circle of Hell - as could the cheery people-with-the-broadest-shoulders who would doubtless welcome the chance to pick up the burden which, for most of them, would, after all, be pretty light.

[Lord Kangana]

They can afford better lawyers.

I'm sure this is printed at the top of every policy document from the last thirty years.

[Zulus Thousand of em]

Researching the wealth tax (a tax routinely levied in France and about to be reintroduced in Spain) it seems that the top 10% of the wealthy in Britain have a combined wealth of £4000 billion.

A modest one off wealth tax at 2% would, at least in theory, bring in the £80 billion that Osborne is currently inflicting huge societal damage and pain to achieve. And in this way he could perhaps make a plea for mitigation when faced with the 8th circle of Hell - as could the cheery people-with-the-broadest-shoulders who would doubtless welcome the chance to pick up the burden which, for most of them, would, after all, be pretty light.

Or get them to up sticks and move to a more tax friendly country, taking their money and their ability to create wealth and, presumably jobs, with them? Win Win eh, Will?

[Lord Kangana]

Specifically on that point Zulu's there isn't a shred of evidence that that has or will happen, and moreover, that that scenario adversley affected the economy or revenue raising potential of a country.

Moreover there is only one study ever conducted on higher taxation on the seriously wealthy. Now you might want to sit down for their astonishing conclusion, but it said "The more you tax, the more you get in the coffers".

Yes, I was amazed at how simple that is too.

[boltonboris]

Specifically on that point Zulu's there isn't a shred of evidence that that has or will happen, and moreover, that that scenario adversley affected the economy or revenue raising potential of a country.

Moreover there is only one study ever conducted on higher taxation on the seriously wealthy. Now you might want to sit down for their astonishing conclusion, but it said "The more you tax, the more you get in the coffers".

Yes, I was amazed at how simple that is too.

But you never see the benift.. The more people you force out of work, the less tax you get in the coffers

As for your first point. what evidence is there to say that it couldn't happen? That's the danger...

[Lord Kangana]

Studies can only tell you of past indicators. Despite hearsay (not sure what a pop group has to do with it) and conjecture, in the past the more you raised tax for the super rich the more money you got. On the whole, they'd grumble and threaten to leave, but on the whole didn't. The perception might be that they did, but they didn't. And tax revenue was consequently higher.

Anyone who wants to tell you what will happen with any certainty in the future is a liar, but historically there is no precedent for saying they will leave. The benefits for them to stay go far beyond just taxation. We're one of a handfull of countries that has decent law and order, for a start.

[Zulus Thousand of em]

Specifically on that point Zulu's there isn't a shred of evidence that that has or will happen, and moreover, that that scenario adversley affected the economy or revenue raising potential of a country.

Moreover there is only one study ever conducted on higher taxation on the seriously wealthy. Now you might want to sit down for their astonishing conclusion, but it said "The more you tax, the more you get in the coffers".

Yes, I was amazed at how simple that is too.

If it is that simple I'm amazed that the previous Labour administration didn't think of it.

[William the White]

Researching the wealth tax (a tax routinely levied in France and about to be reintroduced in Spain) it seems that the top 10% of the wealthy in Britain have a combined wealth of £4000 billion.

A modest one off wealth tax at 2% would, at least in theory, bring in the £80 billion that Osborne is currently inflicting huge societal damage and pain to achieve. And in this way he could perhaps make a plea for mitigation when faced with the 8th circle of Hell - as could the cheery people-with-the-broadest-shoulders who would doubtless welcome the chance to pick up the burden which, for most of them, would, after all, be pretty light.

Or get them to up sticks and move to a more tax friendly country, taking their money and their ability to create wealth and, presumably jobs, with them? Win Win eh, Will?

You mean they wouldn't be willing to pick up the nearly as light as a feather burden?

OK - freeze their entire assets - see how they respond then. This class war thing gets better and better.

[Lord Kangana]

I refer the honourable member to my previous posts re politicians.

And please don't tell me you believe Labour to be left wing. This is the politics thread, not the Xbox thread. Brown was as bad as the previous government(and in some cases worse, until the shit hit the fan) with his progressive taxation.

[thebish]

talking of taxing the rich...

let's not hear any more of this loose talk about the tories and libdems NOT holding the banks accountable.

there is now a levy on banks amounting to 0.04% of their balance sheets (probably less) which will raise a WHOPPING maximum of £2.5billion.

there - see - they'll be smarting now!

(and let's not be smart and clever and compare this with the extra £7billion being raised from welfare claimants)

[ratbert]

talking of taxing the rich...

let's not hear any more of this loose talk about the tories and libdems NOT holding the banks accountable.

there is now a levy on banks amounting to 0.04% of their balance sheets (probably less) which will raise a WHOPPING maximum of £2.5billion.

there - see - they'll be smarting now!

(and let's not be smart and clever and compare this with the extra £7billion being raised from welfare claimants)

Oh, and don't forget the Corporation Tax changes just introduced to offset the bank levy. Bet little George was winking at his braying 'weath creating' chums when he announced that little wheeze.

[TANGODANCER]

" And the wicked Prince John in his schemes for the crown,
Set up a Sherrif in Nottingham Town,
Tiddle-dum de doodle aye hey."

[superjohnmcginlay]

Here's summat I wonder about...

Yeserday was the big set piece - the showpiece announcement..

but...

If you actually listened to it - a very large percentage of these savings are far easier to "announce" than to achieve..

an awful lot is hidden in very vague phrases like "changes in the way we do procurement across govt depts" and "efficiency in govt departments" and "integrated back-office strategies"

all of this is easy to ANNOUNCE - but history has shown it is far less easy to deliver..

how much of this £80-odd billion do you reckon will ACTUALLY be saved over the next 4 years? (and will we ever know?)

That's a good point. They should have a big electronic display in central that there London so you can see if the numbers are going up or down.