Oh Lord!!!

[Montreal Wanderer]

By the way, what if the houseowner just lamped the toerag and it turned out that said toerag had a fragile skull to go with his fragile brain and subsequently died? Manslaughter again and a custodial sentence. Now, that's not right either, is it?

Surely you must see the difference, Zulus? A punch-up with a bunch of drunks assaulting you and one dies from a weak skull - very likely justifiable homicide in defense of property or manslaughter with an absolute discharge. Going to the kitchen and getting a deadly weapon, then using it - custodial sentence. Either you want anarchy or you accept the law (no matter how poor the enforcement is on occasion).

[Montreal Wanderer]

I was told by some American friends that in Arizona and some other Southern States you could shoot an intruder providing he crossed your threshold, i.e. shoot first and ask questions later. Hence in such a case you'd just open the door, pull the guy into the house and then shoot him in self defence as urine could hold the aids virus. Case closed and you walk.

As I mentioned earlier, it is Texas and it is the threshold of the property not the house. The German tourists looking for directions were shot on the front path. Neither Texas nor Aizona would count as Southern States by the way, even though they may be as far south as you can get in the USA. "Southern States" are further east and have a special meaning, and Texas, Arizona et al are known as the South West.

[Montreal Wanderer]

By the way, what if the houseowner just lamped the toerag and it turned out that said toerag had a fragile skull to go with his fragile brain and subsequently died? Manslaughter again and a custodial sentence. Now, that's not right either, is it?

Surely you must see the difference, Zulus? A punch-up with a bunch of drunks assaulting you and one dies from a weak skull - very likely justifiable homicide in defense of property or manslaughter with an absolute discharge. Going to the kitchen and getting a deadly weapon, then using it - custodial sentence. Either you want anarchy or you accept the law (no matter how poor the enforcement is on occasion).

Come to think of it, it is a bit like ignoring forum rules. Either you have an anarchical forum or you have a disciplinary officer with banning powers. He may not always make the best decision, but we must support the law to retain forum quality. Now I'm sure you see.

[Montreal Wanderer]

The thing is a punch in the nose (common assault) or a rounders bat on the bell end (somewhat uncommon assault) or calling the police (sensible if pointless) or starting a neighbourhood watch are all a little different from picking up a seven inch kitchen knife and sticking it in someone's stomach. Someone moreover who was likely drunk and incapable. Acting like an idiot or being a chav should not be a death sentence. I'm a bit surprised at some who condone this (not hobo of course).

In fairness Monty, I think plenty of people are just pi$$ed off with a lot of the general scrotery going on in the UK these days. Tosspots break into your property, and to a lot of people nowt's done about it even when they're caught.

I think people would be less likely to take the law into their own hands, or be supportive of cases like this, if the law was generally perceived as offering a deterrent.

Oh I understand Worthy and sympathize with the householder. However, he went too far. What if every night at seven some chav rang your bell and dropped a turd through the letter box. You waited for him one night and when the bell rang you opened the door and stabbed quickly. It turns out to be a policeman responding at last to your many complaints. Sure there was no intent, but you won't avoid going to jail. If you lamp the copper you likely apologize, give him a scotch and get away with it. It is wrong to engage in deadly behaviour whatever the provocation, IMHO.

[Worthy4England]

The thing is a punch in the nose (common assault) or a rounders bat on the bell end (somewhat uncommon assault) or calling the police (sensible if pointless) or starting a neighbourhood watch are all a little different from picking up a seven inch kitchen knife and sticking it in someone's stomach. Someone moreover who was likely drunk and incapable. Acting like an idiot or being a chav should not be a death sentence. I'm a bit surprised at some who condone this (not hobo of course).

In fairness Monty, I think plenty of people are just pi$$ed off with a lot of the general scrotery going on in the UK these days. Tosspots break into your property, and to a lot of people nowt's done about it even when they're caught.

I think people would be less likely to take the law into their own hands, or be supportive of cases like this, if the law was generally perceived as offering a deterrent.

Oh I understand Worthy and sympathize with the householder. However, he went too far. What if every night at seven some chav rang your bell and dropped a turd through the letter box. You waited for him one night and when the bell rang you opened the door and stabbed quickly. It turns out to be a policeman responding at last to your many complaints. Sure there was no intent, but you won't avoid going to jail. If you lamp the copper you likely apologize, give him a scotch and get away with it. It is wrong to engage in deadly behaviour whatever the provocation, IMHO.

Agree Monty, break the asswipe's knees with the baseball bat first.

[BWFC_Insane]

Whatever happened to the good old "ring the police"?

Since when did we become a country where vigilante justice is acceptable?

And who deems whats acceptable. LIke it or not and as disgusting as it is for someone to urinate through your door there can be no excuse that he was stabbed to death.

Once we go down that road we're in a real mess and deep down everyone knows it.

[thebish]

I got attacked on my doorstep this very evening by three very short thugs in ghost and zombie costumes (presumably to hide their identities) - I wiped out all three with a baseball bat.

[TANGODANCER]

I got attacked on my doorstep this very evening by three very short thugs in ghost and zombie costumes (presumably to hide their identities) - I wiped out all three with a baseball bat.

Didn't need more than three bags of sweets to see my vandals off. Easy.

[thebish]

I got attacked on my doorstep this very evening by three very short thugs in ghost and zombie costumes (presumably to hide their identities) - I wiped out all three with a baseball bat.

Didn't need more than three bags of sweets to see my vandals off. Easy.

i thought kids weren't supposed to take sweets from strange men....

i also thought offering sweets to non-family young kids was frowned upon...

baseball bat seems safer!

[Bruce Rioja]

Whatever happened to the good old "ring the police"?

Since when did we become a country where vigilante justice is acceptable?

And who deems whats acceptable. LIke it or not and as disgusting as it is for someone to urinate through your door there can be no excuse that he was stabbed to death.

Once we go down that road we're in a real mess and deep down everyone knows it.

Piss through my letterbox - I'll kill you. An that's that! Numbskull!

[TANGODANCER]

I got attacked on my doorstep this very evening by three very short thugs in ghost and zombie costumes (presumably to hide their identities) - I wiped out all three with a baseball bat.

Didn't need more than three bags of sweets to see my vandals off. Easy.

i thought kids weren't supposed to take sweets from strange men....
i also thought offering sweets to non-family young kids was frowned upon...
baseball bat seems safer!

They are. It's just those annoying witnesses, mums and dads, that always seem to hang around with them. Inconvenient.

[thebish]

my daughter just got back from demanding sweets with menaces

I've never seen so many sweets... she's good at this!

[Harry Genshaw]

Whatever happened to the good old "ring the police"?
Since when did we become a country where vigilante justice is acceptable?

And who deems whats acceptable. LIke it or not and as disgusting as it is for someone to urinate through your door there can be no excuse that he was stabbed to death.

Once we go down that road we're in a real mess and deep down everyone knows it.

You cant possibly have rang them for anything recently. Unless you're calling about a murder, expect to wait anything from 4 hours to 3 days before an officer calls if you're ringing to report a group of yobs outside your door with one of em pissing thru yer letterbox.

[InsaneApache]

Once we go down that road we're in a real mess and deep down everyone knows it.

You cant possibly have rang them for anything recently. Unless you're calling about a murder, expect to wait anything from 4 hours to 3 days before an officer calls if you're ringing to report a group of yobs outside your door with one of em pissing thru yer letterbox.

This.

New Labour. New Britain.

[Dujon]

Whilst I sympathise with the poor convicted criminal in the sense that he broke under pressure I do think he was wrong to use the knife in the manner he did. Many years ago I did exactly the same thing (i.e. grab an implement from my kitchen) in order to use it as protection - defensive, not aggressive - when confronting a bloke who'd been wife-bothering. No, you will get no more detail than that. The said weapon happened to be the closest at the time and was a small meat cleaver. I'm sure that the fellow involved knew that I wouldn't use it unless he did something stupid. After a bit of bombast and blustering he left my territory never to return.

Why would I take the effort to grab the cleaver? It's simple really. There was no way in the world that I would win a bout of fisticuffs or an outright brawl with the chap as he was far superior to me in the height, reach and muscle departments. There's nothing like a sharp edge to even up a fight.

I've often wondered though what I might have done had he not backed down. Perhaps I'd be still incarcerated.

[Worthy4England]

Once we go down that road we're in a real mess and deep down everyone knows it.

You cant possibly have rang them for anything recently. Unless you're calling about a murder, expect to wait anything from 4 hours to 3 days before an officer calls if you're ringing to report a group of yobs outside your door with one of em pissing thru yer letterbox.

This.

New Labour. New Britain.

This yes.

And no. They didn't turn up any bloody quicker 13 years ago.

[Zulus Thousand of em]

By the way, what if the houseowner just lamped the toerag and it turned out that said toerag had a fragile skull to go with his fragile brain and subsequently died? Manslaughter again and a custodial sentence. Now, that's not right either, is it?

Surely you must see the difference, Zulus? A punch-up with a bunch of drunks assaulting you and one dies from a weak skull - very likely justifiable homicide in defense of property or manslaughter with an absolute discharge. Going to the kitchen and getting a deadly weapon, then using it - custodial sentence. Either you want anarchy or you accept the law (no matter how poor the enforcement is on occasion).

Come to think of it, it is a bit like ignoring forum rules. Either you have an anarchical forum or you have a disciplinary officer with banning powers. He may not always make the best decision, but we must support the law to retain forum quality. Now I'm sure you see.

Got it!

[Hoboh]

When the legal system and the Police sing from the same hymm sheet this type of incident won't or extremely rarely happen.
The Police should be made to publicly state what action they are taking to deal with these thugs and the Bods that represent Judges and Magistrates should openly come out and say that whilest retaining the right of mitigation etc they will come down generally on the thugs like a ton of bricks! That is a start, at least the w*nkers will know then, next the rights of victims should be paramount, sod the knobheads and just as aside morons like the dead muppets mum should be sterlised

[thebish]

Once we go down that road we're in a real mess and deep down everyone knows it.

You cant possibly have rang them for anything recently. Unless you're calling about a murder, expect to wait anything from 4 hours to 3 days before an officer calls if you're ringing to report a group of yobs outside your door with one of em pissing thru yer letterbox.

This.

New Labour. New Britain.

hmmm... and i guess the tory-libdem policy of slashing the police budget and police numbers will speed them up a bit?

[FaninOz]

Whilst I sympathise with the poor convicted criminal in the sense that he broke under pressure I do think he was wrong to use the knife in the manner he did. Many years ago I did exactly the same thing (i.e. grab an implement from my kitchen) in order to use it as protection - defensive, not aggressive - when confronting a bloke who'd been wife-bothering. No, you will get no more detail than that. The said weapon happened to be the closest at the time and was a small meat cleaver. I'm sure that the fellow involved knew that I wouldn't use it unless he did something stupid. After a bit of bombast and blustering he left my territory never to return.

Why would I take the effort to grab the cleaver? It's simple really. There was no way in the world that I would win a bout of fisticuffs or an outright brawl with the chap as he was far superior to me in the height, reach and muscle departments. There's nothing like a sharp edge to even up a fight.

I've often wondered though what I might have done had he not backed down. Perhaps I'd be still incarcerated.

I must admit that I own a Samurai sword and knife that is convenient located at home should I need it. It would look good if someone threatened me or my wife at home but I don't know if it came to it that I would or even could use it.