Bolton v Liverpool Match Thread

[Worthy4England]

Oh and one "negative" point I'll make is the way we're playing means often our best "half chances" seem to fall to Muamba.

And he's clueless with them.

Muamba is actually very poor this season IMO and I feel he is being held together by Holden and in January it would be interesting if we can get an alternative to Muamba.

Too often moves break down with him. And he's also not winning the ball half as much as he should.

We're good we have Joey O'Brien.

[TANGODANCER]

Some times I do wonder if I'm watching the same game. Davies made a couple of errors, a clumsy second touch and one other. His flicks and passes were generally quite good and the number of times he won the ball in the air goes by the board when there's nobody getting on the end of them. The Greek had him in his pocket? If Davo had played in similar fashion, fouling endlessly he'd have been off by half time. We still do a fair amount of long ball, almost always aimed at KD, but rarely capitalise on his winning flicks. His fault? I think not. Liverpool might not be the side they were, but they won't be anywhere near the bottom half at season's end. We were worthy at the very least a point today, but hey, what else is new?

[hisroyalgingerness]

I'd like to hear a positive from you BWFCi, because for all your glib-ness, there's nothing from what you've said that makes me think the performance was anything other than tosh.

I mean ffs, 1 in 3 of our passes did not find a white shirt. We had 40% possession according to SSN, and that's at home against an opposition in the bottom 3, albeit Liverpool. It was a poor Liverpool, it was a bottom 3 performance from Liverpool and we stuffed it.

You were right though, it was coming. Liverpool due an away win, Bolton only lost once all season and not at the Bok, pundits predicting us to win. Always gonna end in tears, I'm just surprised it wasn't with a Torres hat trick.

[FaninOz]

Some times I do wonder if I'm watching the same game. Davies made a couple of errors, a clumsy second touch and one other. His flicks and passes were generally quite good and the number of times he won the ball in the air goes by the board when there's nobody getting on the end of them. The Greek had him in his pocket? If Davo had played in similar fashion, fouling endlessly he'd have been off by half time. We still do a fair amount of long ball, almost always aimed at KD, but rarely capitalise on his winning flicks. His fault? I think not. Liverpool might not be the side they were, but they won't be anywhere near the bottom half at season's end. We were worthy at the very least a point today, but hey, what else is new?

I also don't understand all the negativity but even so I would have taken Davies off rather than Elmo.

We didn't play half as bad as some on here are implying, as I said earlier we lost because we didn't score from our opportunities and Liverpool did. On another day with the same performances the game would have gone the other way, as Coyle said that's the rub of the green in the Premiership.

My main concern was the ref who didn't give one of three possible penalties, the most obvious was the first one that hit Carragher's hand and went to the goalkeeper rather than going to one of our strikers. On such referee decision are games won and lost, and this season poor decisions have won more games than good or even bad play! There have been some real bloomers in many matches and its quite worrying.

[midnitefooty]

Couldn't watch the game live so watched the replay at work this morning.

I too don't understand a lot of the negativity. Frustrating way to lose but I don't think we played half as bad as many people seem to be making out. Even taking into consideration Pool were crap, this kind of performance would have generated a different response last season.

SKD was not crap. Not sure what some people are complaining about. He came closer to scoring than Elmo ever did. And at the tale end of the game, when the the inevitable hoof ball starts, who would you rather have in the box?

I admit, I had my reservations about Holden early in the season but I now fully repent. I'm sorry but Muamba now looks useless compared to what Holden does on the pitch. Get Mavies in there.

As for the blown handball call... I don't think it was an easy spot for the ref.

[keveh]

I've seen a lot of stuff mentioned about Andy Gray, what was he saying about SKD?

[BWFC_Insane]

I'd like to hear a positive from you BWFCi, because for all your glib-ness, there's nothing from what you've said that makes me think the performance was anything other than tosh.

I mean ffs, 1 in 3 of our passes did not find a white shirt. We had 40% possession according to SSN, and that's at home against an opposition in the bottom 3, albeit Liverpool. It was a poor Liverpool, it was a bottom 3 performance from Liverpool and we stuffed it.

You were right though, it was coming. Liverpool due an away win, Bolton only lost once all season and not at the Bok, pundits predicting us to win. Always gonna end in tears, I'm just surprised it wasn't with a Torres hat trick.

The positives were that we matched a side with Torres and Gerrard in however poorly they were playing.

That a strong and physical side such as Liverpool did at no point overpower us and that we created as much as they did.

As badly as you might say Liverpool are playing now they defended well, soaked up the pressure and hit us with a sucker punch. It was a classic away performance. And the ONLY telling bit of quality they produced, Torres' flick, created the goal. But thats sometimes what happens when a team with a few real top quality players rocks up, if they keep it tight they can score with one chance.

Football is fine margins as Owen says, Davies' header a few inches to the right and we'd have been celebrating a win I'm sure.

[hisroyalgingerness]

I also don't understand all the negativity but even so I would have taken Davies off rather than Elmo.

We didn't play half as bad as some on here are implying, as I said earlier we lost because we didn't score from our opportunities and Liverpool did. On another day with the same performances the game would have gone the other way, as Coyle said that's the rub of the green in the Premiership.

My main concern was the ref who didn't give one of three possible penalties, the most obvious was the first one that hit Carragher's hand and went to the goalkeeper rather than going to one of our strikers. On such referee decision are games won and lost, and this season poor decisions have won more games than good or even bad play! There have been some real bloomers in many matches and its quite worrying.

Go on then, you as well - what were the positives?

You say we're not as bad as is being said - yet the main reason you think we're lost is that we didn't get any penalties? Do me a favour.

[BWFC_Insane]

I also don't understand all the negativity but even so I would have taken Davies off rather than Elmo.

We didn't play half as bad as some on here are implying, as I said earlier we lost because we didn't score from our opportunities and Liverpool did. On another day with the same performances the game would have gone the other way, as Coyle said that's the rub of the green in the Premiership.

My main concern was the ref who didn't give one of three possible penalties, the most obvious was the first one that hit Carragher's hand and went to the goalkeeper rather than going to one of our strikers. On such referee decision are games won and lost, and this season poor decisions have won more games than good or even bad play! There have been some real bloomers in many matches and its quite worrying.

Go on then, you as well - what were the positives?

You say we're not as bad as is being said - yet the main reason you think we're lost is that we didn't get any penalties? Do me a favour.

I think he's quite blatantly said the positive was we lost but weren't outplayed and on a different day we could have won. We didn't get the rub of the green. But it happens.

Everyone but everyone seems to think a draw was a fair result and I'd go with that. We've only been outplayed by Arsenal this season and that when down to 10 men.

We've been right in every other game. And we're playing positive football with more variety and a tad of invention.

I really don't see what there is to moan about. Were not totally "open and naive" as we might have been, we're not caught between two stools as I feared at the start we've got a shape and a pattern and it seems opponents find it hard to deal with. We probably leak a few too many goals but we're improving from last season.

[hisroyalgingerness]

Yes but that's very generic and fluffy - why exactly did we play well? What did we do, that was good?

[thebish]

I also don't understand all the negativity

there is negativity because we LOST a game that we might easily have won had we been more on our game - negativity is perfectly reasonable and understandable - fans get upset when we lose games we might have won - and we'd really like to beat Liverpool again one day - and we didn't - we had a chance to climb the table to fifth and put some daylight between us and the relegation zone - we failed when it was reasonably within our grasp to do so. so - some negativity is easily understandable.

the "negativity" is certainly not (as BWFCi claims) "over the top" - it seems measured and reasonable to me - nobody has called for Coyle to be sacked or Davo to be dropped or Elmo to be driven to wigan and given away.

[BWFC_Insane]

Yes but that's very generic and fluffy - why exactly did we play well? What did we do, that was good?

Watch Match of the day Lawrenson highlighted 4 or 5 really good moves we put together. We played some nice stuff up to the box but at times the final ball let us down.

We created two really good chances from set piece delivery. We were solid and had significant periods when we were on top.

We restricted Liverpool to 2 real chances (was it only one shot on target?).

We competed really well in midfield and Lee had a good first half where he looked back to his best (though he faded second half) and Taylor similarly had a really strong first half and caused Carragher a lot of problems even beating him on the outside once and getting a good cross in.

Do you want more? Playing well is subjective if you're expecting us to hammer 4 past Liverpool then I guess you can argue we were poor. I was expecting the game we got. Tight with Liverpool sitting back, matching us physically and using their pace to hit on the break.

[FaninOz]

I also don't understand all the negativity but even so I would have taken Davies off rather than Elmo.

We didn't play half as bad as some on here are implying, as I said earlier we lost because we didn't score from our opportunities and Liverpool did. On another day with the same performances the game would have gone the other way, as Coyle said that's the rub of the green in the Premiership.

My main concern was the ref who didn't give one of three possible penalties, the most obvious was the first one that hit Carragher's hand and went to the goalkeeper rather than going to one of our strikers. On such referee decision are games won and lost, and this season poor decisions have won more games than good or even bad play! There have been some real bloomers in many matches and its quite worrying.

Go on then, you as well - what were the positives?

You say we're not as bad as is being said - yet the main reason you think we're lost is that we didn't get any penalties? Do me a favour.

Positives :-

• we held and even outplayed for much of the game a team who for years were in the top four in the league;
• we created more chances than they did and got many more on target;
• we played some good passing football at times between the long balls, similar to what Liverpool did;
• Holden is a real find, full backs did well and so did the centre backs for almost all of the game;
• I even think that Muamba didn’t have too bad a game, wish he could shoot though;

The main negatives are that we gave the ball away too cheaply at times, but then they did the same.

We lost to one piece of luck that nine times out of ten wouldn’t have happened, that back heel would most likely have hit one of the defenders legs and not got through. And normally Jussi would have saved a toe poke like that, it was just one of those things that happen.

I believe that people are being over critical of what was a fair performance which on another day could have produced a win not a loss. I’m gutted that we did lose but not too upset by the performance.

[FaninOz]

I also don't understand all the negativity

there is negativity because we LOST a game that we might easily have won had we been more on our game - negativity is perfectly reasonable and understandable - fans get upset when we lose games we might have won - and we'd really like to beat Liverpool again one day - and we didn't - we had a chance to climb the table to fifth and put some daylight between us and the relegation zone - we failed when it was reasonably within our grasp to do so. so - some negativity is easily understandable.

the "negativity" is certainly not (as BWFCi claims) "over the top" - it seems measured and reasonable to me - nobody has called for Coyle to be sacked or Davo to be dropped or Elmo to be driven to wigan and given away.

I can understand the feeling of disappointment but not the negativity. Yes we lost a game that we could and possibly should have won but all teams do that. If we had won there would have been alround praise for that performance. Perhaps Davies' header would have gone in and Torres' back heel wouldn't have got through Cahill's legs but other than those two fleeting seconds the performance would have been exactly the same.

The difference between winning and losing happens in such small spaces of time, hence the overall negativity in my humble opinion isn't justified.

[midnitefooty]

I also don't understand all the negativity

there is negativity because we LOST a game that we might easily have won had we been more on our game - negativity is perfectly reasonable and understandable - fans get upset when we lose games we might have won - and we'd really like to beat Liverpool again one day - and we didn't - we had a chance to climb the table to fifth and put some daylight between us and the relegation zone - we failed when it was reasonably within our grasp to do so. so - some negativity is easily understandable.

the "negativity" is certainly not (as BWFCi claims) "over the top" - it seems measured and reasonable to me - nobody has called for Coyle to be sacked or Davo to be dropped or Elmo to be driven to wigan and given away.

I think "negativity" in this case is being understood differently by different parties. The "shite" and "disgraceful" comments can seem OTT I suppose but we can assume people are just frustrated, which isn't negativity. doooooooooooomed on the other hand, is negativity

[thebish]

I also don't understand all the negativity

there is negativity because we LOST a game that we might easily have won had we been more on our game - negativity is perfectly reasonable and understandable - fans get upset when we lose games we might have won - and we'd really like to beat Liverpool again one day - and we didn't - we had a chance to climb the table to fifth and put some daylight between us and the relegation zone - we failed when it was reasonably within our grasp to do so. so - some negativity is easily understandable.

the "negativity" is certainly not (as BWFCi claims) "over the top" - it seems measured and reasonable to me - nobody has called for Coyle to be sacked or Davo to be dropped or Elmo to be driven to wigan and given away.

I think "negativity" in this case is being understood differently by different parties. The "shite" and "disgraceful" comments can seem OTT I suppose but we can assume people are just frustrated, which isn't negativity. doooooooooooomed on the other hand, is negativity

Me saying we were dooooooooooooooooooooooomed was simply a statement of fact. We were!

[BWFC_Insane]

I also don't understand all the negativity

there is negativity because we LOST a game that we might easily have won had we been more on our game - negativity is perfectly reasonable and understandable - fans get upset when we lose games we might have won - and we'd really like to beat Liverpool again one day - and we didn't - we had a chance to climb the table to fifth and put some daylight between us and the relegation zone - we failed when it was reasonably within our grasp to do so. so - some negativity is easily understandable.

the "negativity" is certainly not (as BWFCi claims) "over the top" - it seems measured and reasonable to me - nobody has called for Coyle to be sacked or Davo to be dropped or Elmo to be driven to wigan and given away.

I think negativity over the result is different to saying "we were shite".

Dissapointing result from a game we deserved a point from.

But we still gave a good show.

[thebish]

Positives :-

• we held and even outplayed for much of the game a team who for years were in the top four in the league; (but are by no means "top 4" now - ie - on the day we played them)
• we created more chances than they did and got many more on target; and tested the keeper with only ONE of them
• we played some good passing football at times between the long balls, similar to what Liverpool did; and seriously lacked any proper end product or final ball as usual
• Holden is a real find, full backs did well and so did the centre backs for almost all of the game; agreed - but we found holden before this game!
• I even think that Muamba didn’t have too bad a game, wish he could shoot though; but not as good as last season when he marked Gerrard entirely out of the game until the sending off

The main negatives are that we gave the ball away too cheaply at times, but then they did the same. (which doesn't make our doing it any better!)

[FaninOz]

Positives :-

• we held and even outplayed for much of the game a team who for years were in the top four in the league; (but are by no means "top 4" now - ie - on the day we played them)
• we created more chances than they did and got many more on target; and tested the keeper with only ONE of them
• we played some good passing football at times between the long balls, similar to what Liverpool did; and seriously lacked any proper end product or final ball as usual
• Holden is a real find, full backs did well and so did the centre backs for almost all of the game; agreed - but we found holden before this game!
• I even think that Muamba didn’t have too bad a game, wish he could shoot though; but not as good as last season when he marked Gerrard entirely out of the game until the sending off

The main negatives are that we gave the ball away too cheaply at times, but then they did the same. (which doesn't make our doing it any better!)

Muamba was given a different role by Coyle, he wasn't man marking Gerrard this time and you can't blame the lad doing as he was told by the boss. In any case Gerrad didn't need man marking he was relatively easy to look after as it was.

They may not be in the top four at present but I would bet that they finish way above us this season and probably top 6.

[ebby]

disappointed that we lost at home but it was going to happen sooner or later, this game was always going to be tough, liverpool wont be in the bottom half of the table come the end of the season i don't think

it was a very tight game and had 0-0 all over it until a moment of class from torres...we didn't take any of our chances but they did