Student protests

[William the White]

Not sure what you mean by 'audited after the event' bobo.

I'm sure what you say about employer bias is accurate - although foolish if they take it to the extent you indicate.

But, fortunately, it is not universal. Our graduates do pretty well in terms of employment.

[Worthy4England]

Not sure what you mean by 'audited after the event' bobo.

I'm sure what you say about employer bias is accurate - although foolish if they take it to the extent you indicate.

But, fortunately, it is not universal. Our graduates do pretty well in terms of employment.

An interesting choice of phrase there.

Is it bias, or selection based on some criteria that been shown to work, given that the "selection" isn't being made by the educational establishments?

I'd love to be able to put recruitment ads in, knowing that every one who responded to the minimum criteria was of generally equal ability/capability. Problem is they're not and there's huge differences. The reality is I'm not going to interview 250 people for 4 positions just because they all have a 2:1, I might interview 8/10 and extend the criteria outwards if the 8/10 don't fit what I'm looking for, but the cost to give "everyone the same chance" isn't going to happen.

To get from 250 (who all meet the minimum requirements) a load of them have to be filtered out somehow. I don't actually care if the recruitment people miss some people who might be good, as long as the ones they send me are good.

Not bias - just how stuff works in the real world.

[William the White]

Of course you have to find some way of getting a shortlist. I would have been doing it myself this week if I'd not been on sick leave - my stand in has done it.

I thought bobo was describing bias. Defending it as well.

No need to respond to this. I'm sure you're busy in the real world.

[Worthy4England]

Of course you have to find some way of getting a shortlist. I would have been doing it myself this week if I'd not been on sick leave - my stand in has done it.

I thought bobo was describing bias. Defending it as well.

No need to respond to this. I'm sure you're busy in the real world.

I'm on a conference call

And have interviewed 2 people since you responded.

[bobo the clown]

Not sure what you mean by 'audited after the event' bobo.

I'm sure what you say about employer bias is accurate - although foolish if they take it to the extent you indicate.

But, fortunately, it is not universal. Our graduates do pretty well in terms of employment.

I mean that in any one year, or several years, the pattern is not noticed. Only after the over-provision of high grades has gone on for some time will the authorities see a need to come in and look at why so many high level degrees are being awarded will it get properly reviewed.

To use a footballing analagy ; while the occasional footballer may do well after coming through the non-league ranks the majority come through the acadamies of the pro. teams. If suddenly it seems that the ones with great potential are being missed left, right and centre then the clubs would overhaul their processes.

The probability that people with poor A levels should ... at such a high rate ... suddenly be getting a first class honours degree 3 years later seems pretty unlikely. The view is that the degree &/or the institution awarding it is not as robust as it should be.

[William the White]

Not sure what you mean by 'audited after the event' bobo.

I'm sure what you say about employer bias is accurate - although foolish if they take it to the extent you indicate.

But, fortunately, it is not universal. Our graduates do pretty well in terms of employment.

I mean that in any one year, or several years, the pattern is not noticed. Only after the over-provision of high grades has gone on for some time will the authorities see a need to come in and look at why so many high level degrees are being awarded will it get properly reviewed.

To use a footballing analagy ; while the occasional footballer may do well after coming through the non-league ranks the majority come through the acadamies of the pro. teams. If suddenly it seems that the ones with great potential are being missed left, right and centre then the clubs would overhaul their processes.

The probability that people with poor A levels should ... at such a high rate ... suddenly be getting a first class honours degree 3 years later seems pretty unlikely. The view is that the degree &/or the institution awarding it is not as robust as it should be.

Very unusual for a very poor performance at A level to turn into a first in my experience. The group where such an exceptional event is most likely is among female mature students returning to education in their 30s or 40s. They often have A levels that are not great, or have done an Access course, but they work incredibly hard, get better and better as the course goes on and can end up as the highest performing students in their year. They tend to get divorced about halfway through their second year as well. The irony is that these students are likely to find it more and more difficult to get into university in the current circumstances.

As for statistical analysis - one of my jobs as a programme leader is EVERY YEAR to produce a Data Analysis Report (I bloody hate the job - stats do my head in) comparing the most recent results - and other things - with the previous five years, precisely to identify any trends or anomalies and to propose action where necessary.

The quality assurance stuff we have to do is also thorough - and bloody time consuming and boring - we sure have enough people - a small industry - checking up on us. Too many, too bureaucratically in my view. One thing we do is that ALL first class and failing work has to be second marked internally and agreed by an external examiner. It's one I agree with, actually. Other grades are sample double-marked and externally moderated. I'm not saying this practice is universal, but we do it consistently.

I'm not at all saying you don't have an important point - as you can see above I have my own reservations about the distinction between the two second class bands. The perception you have is widespread I think and universities need to be doing something to respond to it.

Enough. I don't want to think of work any more. Doctor says i have to do exercise daily. I'm away for a walk around the jumbles...

[Athers]

Reading this has made me check my company's graduate entry criteria (FTSE 100 company)

# At least a 2:1 degree (achieved or predicted). However, we will accept a 2:2 if you also have a postgraduate degree
# 320+ UCAS points from your top 3 A levels (or equivalent) only, not including general studies (I think this means ABB)
# If you are applying for the Legal programme, you must have a 2:1 law degree or a 2:1 degree and have completed the conversion course gaining a commendation

The way it works, IMHO, is that there are probably a few thousand graduates which companies compete for due to their excellent CVs and assessment centre performances. After that it's up to everyone else who meet the above criteria to fight it out and try and get on a scheme somewhere.

[thebish]

According to the BBC - Matt Taylor has a second job...

12.15pm:

Matt Taylor is out in central London and describes extraordinary scenes, where protesters have fled into St James Park to avoid the risk of kettling.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/blo ... e-coverage

[Bruce Rioja]

Kettling what?

[BWFC_Insane]

I find some attitudes rather odd. When I'm interviewing as long as they've met the standards required, I'll judge based on their interview rather than what Uni they went to or how their performance varied between A levels and Uni or whatever.

I often find candidates who went to "lesser" Universities (if thats what we can call them) outperform some of the more traditionally recognised ones in terms of enthusiasm, understanding and general common sense. Having said that I'm usually looking for people who have had 2 years experience post university rather than direct graduates.

[General Mannerheim]

they're at it again in Brizzle. but they are all sprinting about today, must be the cold?

[Lofthouse Lower]

Loads of the little scrotes in Manchester again today, marching with their fruity little placards and facemasks on. Some being peaceful and some trying to have a pop at the bizzies. Some also grabbing people off the street and shouting in their faces. No I won't join you, you little muppets. Go and have a wash.

Disturbed me from getting my daily samples from the Crimbo Market.

[senorjoeyo]

This has to be the best placard ever.
"First dobby dies and now this!?"

[bobo the clown]

This has to be the best placard ever.
"First dobby dies and now this!?"

Very good. Love to see a picture of that one.

Any student capable of thinking that up will be able to develop a career quite nicely.

[thebish]

This has to be the best placard ever.
"First dobby dies and now this!?"

Very good. Love to see a picture of that one.

Any student capable of thinking that up will be able to develop a career quite nicely.

[CrazyHorse]

Am I the only one who doesn't know who Dobby is?

[thebish]

Am I the only one who doesn't know who Dobby is?

another name for Michael Gove...

[KeeeeeeeBaaaaaaab]

Am I the only one who doesn't know who Dobby is?

I thought it was the girl from Peep Show.

[Lofthouse Lower]

Always makes me laugh, harking back to the anti-Iraq war march in Manchester. All perfectly logical and sensible until I spotted two people with this sign:

[Prufrock]

I must admit I did laugh when I read the Twitter taking the mickey out of the UCL occupation:

"Two trespassers share mutual embarrassment when it turns out they're both wearing the same TopMan Che t-shirt. "



Fair play to 'em though. Hope they win. Don't think they will.