The Venkys Fried Chicken thread of ridiculouness

[Worthy4England]

Thats the thing worthy, for every Campo there will be a Jardel waiting to happen. Looking at our finances I can't see how throwing money at a short term fix who will leave for nowt in a season or two's time will help us at all.

When Allardyce brought us up initially it worked out ok, but we all saw what happened with a team of Speed, Okocha, Campo, Stelios etc when age caught up with them.

I think as you say the odd one here or there is helpful, and I guess that was the idea behind Petrov, though for me thats not working out well at all. Also bear in mind the way Coyle wants to play, we need fresh legs all over the park, I really couldn't see Campo fitting into the current system at all, nor despite all his obvious class Hierro.

Yes but similarly, for every Cahill, there's a Gerald Cid. That's not an age-bound thing, there's always been cock-up signings at every Club.

What happened when age caught up with Speed, Okocha, Campo and Stelios etc. was we finished 7th. I did some digging around whilst HWSNBN was in charge, and compared with the aging team that Allardyce left with Megson's final year in charge.

Average age of all the squad who put in at least 1 Prem start - Allardyce team 26.91 years. Megson's final year squad including Coyle signings (Wilshere, Weiss, Holden etc.) 26.84 years. Without Coyle's youngsters, the average age was higher - at 27.68 years.

Slightly different when you look at the 11 most used players - Final Allardyce year 27.8 years old, Final Megson year 27.1 years old.

This season, our 11 most used players stand at an average of 28.5 years old...higher than both the previous 2 Managers.

The squad that Coyle has used so far averages 27.45 years old - older than Allardyce's final year squad.

Not being critical of OC as he's had bugger all capital to work with - Megson saw to that when our youth policy drove up the average age of the squad...

The problem for Allardyce was that some of the key players were getting very old and the Board didn't want to give him the money they eventually gave Megson to replace them.

I don't think I could see Coyle signing Campo either - but are you talking Campo at 28 (his age when we signed him?) or Campo at 32 - the age when he left? I'd snatch your hand off for a 28 year-old Campo...

[BWFC_Insane]

Thats the thing worthy, for every Campo there will be a Jardel waiting to happen. Looking at our finances I can't see how throwing money at a short term fix who will leave for nowt in a season or two's time will help us at all.

When Allardyce brought us up initially it worked out ok, but we all saw what happened with a team of Speed, Okocha, Campo, Stelios etc when age caught up with them.

I think as you say the odd one here or there is helpful, and I guess that was the idea behind Petrov, though for me thats not working out well at all. Also bear in mind the way Coyle wants to play, we need fresh legs all over the park, I really couldn't see Campo fitting into the current system at all, nor despite all his obvious class Hierro.

Yes but similarly, for every Cahill, there's a Gerald Cid. That's not an age-bound thing, there's always been cock-up signings at every Club.

What happened when age caught up with Speed, Okocha, Campo and Stelios etc. was we finished 7th. I did some digging around whilst HWSNBN was in charge, and compared with the aging team that Allardyce left with Megson's final year in charge.

Average age of all the squad who put in at least 1 Prem start - Allardyce team 26.91 years. Megson's final year squad including Coyle signings (Wilshere, Weiss, Holden etc.) 26.84 years. Without Coyle's youngsters, the average age was higher - at 27.68 years.

Slightly different when you look at the 11 most used players - Final Allardyce year 27.8 years old, Final Megson year 27.1 years old.

This season, our 11 most used players stand at an average of 28.5 years old...higher than both the previous 2 Managers.

The squad that Coyle has used so far averages 27.45 years old - older than Allardyce's final year squad.

Not being critical of OC as he's had bugger all capital to work with - Megson saw to that when our youth policy drove up the average age of the squad...

The problem for Allardyce was that some of the key players were getting very old and the Board didn't want to give him the money they eventually gave Megson to replace them.

I don't think I could see Coyle signing Campo either - but are you talking Campo at 28 (his age when we signed him?) or Campo at 32 - the age when he left? I'd snatch your hand off for a 28 year-old Campo...

I think its more about where you invest than what age of team you put out. Coyle has invested in Alonso and signed Holden, he has also got Rodrigo, Wilshere and Weiss on loan and wants to sign Rodrigo permanently.

Yes he's brought in Petrov and Klasnic but there always has to be a balance I'd agree on that.

But I'd be interested to know what proportion of our money went on the likes of Okocha, Campo, Youri etc? With Cahill, Lee, Muamba, Holden etc we'll likely make money so will have some in the pot to replace them with. How would we sustainably have replaced Okocha, Youri, Campo etc?

[Lord Kangana]

We were better off financially with an older team of Galacticos finishing higher up the league.

[BWFC_Insane]

We were better off financially with an older team of Galacticos finishing higher up the league.

We were until we had to replace half a team.

[Worthy4England]

But I'd be interested to know what proportion of our money went on the likes of Okocha, Campo, Youri etc? With Cahill, Lee, Muamba, Holden etc we'll likely make money so will have some in the pot to replace them with. How would we sustainably have replaced Okocha, Youri, Campo etc?

Don't confuse the entirety of Allardyce's reign, with the squad he left. Okocha and Youri were long gone. If you look at the rest from his final season in charge, only 14 players made more than 10 starts. Of those, 5 were over 30.

Stelios - age 32 - 11 starts
Pedersen - age 31 - 10 starts
Campo - age 32 - 31 starts
Jussi - age 31 - 38 starts
Speed - age 37 - 38 starts

Stelios and HP were predominantly bit-part, Jussi you wouldn't criticise a manager from playing him now (if you didn't have Al Habsi and even then it's still debateable)

That leaves Campo and Speed.

HWSNBN got the money to replace squad members in the January of his first season - £5m for Cahill, £3.5 for Steinsson, £3.5 for Taylor and £0.65 for Cohen. He then got in the summer, another £5m to buy Muamba and £8.2m (for argument's sake) to buy Elmander.

I'm sure Allardyce could have replaced all our "over 30's" with the same level of investment...

[Worthy4England]

We were better off financially with an older team of Galacticos finishing higher up the league.

We were until we had to replace half a team.

It wasn't half a team - you're not looking at the facts.

[BWFC_Insane]

We were better off financially with an older team of Galacticos finishing higher up the league.

We were until we had to replace half a team.

It wasn't half a team - you're not looking at the facts.

I am. We'd lost Okocha and never replaced him. Our midfield consisted of Nolan, Speed and Campo three players who were there before Jay Jay.

Similar situation with Hierro. He came, did well for 12 games and walked off probably 3-4M richer. We never replaced him in the traditional sense.

Before he left Allardyce and then Lee were restricted mainly to frees because of the money spent on Anelka and because we hadn't sold any of our older players. Dzemailli (Campo/Jay Jay's replacement?), Michalik, Samuel, Cid, McCann (Hierro replacement?), Wilhelmsson, Braaten etc

Were brought in. That alone suggests to me that the strategy was not sustainable given the quality of players Allardyce/Lee turned to. Had we received a 5M fee for Jay Jay and a few million for Campo things might have been different.

Had Megson not been given that money to spend we'd have gone down, and I imagine that money was only made available because it absolutely had to be. For me a big part of the reason we're in so much debt now is because for 7 years Allardyce did not think about the future. We've hardly brough through any young players and his signings erred on the "experienced end". Don't get me wrong at the time having Jay Jay etc was great and the right thing for the club. But in the long run unless we buy and trade younger players and start producing some of our own our club isn't sustainable in the top flight. I think that much is obvious and one of the big reasons Coyle was picked for the job.

[David Lee's Hair]

According to the beeb, bastions of truth, they're offering him £20m over 3 years... that's £130k a week near enough... He'll go there for that, he'll be shite, but he'll go...

Oh and the owners watches a lot of cricket

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 336036.stm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Zulus Thousand of em]

Desai also told Sky Sports News that they were looking at a couple of other players. "We're thinking of getting Damien Duff back," she said.

Better and better!

[Worthy4England]

I am. We'd lost Okocha and never replaced him. Our midfield consisted of Nolan, Speed and Campo three players who were there before Jay Jay.

Similar situation with Hierro. He came, did well for 12 games and walked off probably 3-4M richer. We never replaced him in the traditional sense.

Before he left Allardyce and then Lee were restricted mainly to frees because of the money spent on Anelka and because we hadn't sold any of our older players. Dzemailli (Campo/Jay Jay's replacement?), Michalik, Samuel, Cid, McCann (Hierro replacement?), Wilhelmsson, Braaten etc

Were brought in. That alone suggests to me that the strategy was not sustainable given the quality of players Allardyce/Lee turned to. Had we received a 5M fee for Jay Jay and a few million for Campo things might have been different.

Had Megson not been given that money to spend we'd have gone down, and I imagine that money was only made available because it absolutely had to be. For me a big part of the reason we're in so much debt now is because for 7 years Allardyce did not think about the future. We've hardly brough through any young players and his signings erred on the "experienced end". Don't get me wrong at the time having Jay Jay etc was great and the right thing for the club. But in the long run unless we buy and trade younger players and start producing some of our own our club isn't sustainable in the top flight. I think that much is obvious and one of the big reasons Coyle was picked for the job.

No you're not looking at the facts, you're looking to "blame Allardyce" for the ills of the world, as you usually do.

We'd lost Okocha and actually didn't need to replace him as we still managed to finish in a European spot without him. The previous season, he certainly hadn't been at his best and started less than half our games.

Hierro played just the one season for us (2004/5) making just 15 starts. That particular season our salary spend against our revenue was around 52% - nowhere near the 75% that it currently stands at and our 4th lowest since we've been in the Prem. I doubt we gave him 20% of our entire salary spend.

From the team Allardyce left, we sold Nolan (£4.5m?), Anelka (£15m?), Miete ( £2.5m), Diouf (£2.6m), TBH (who should have gone for a transfer but didn't) and (HP - not sure if he went on a free or not) - There's £25m recouped there, which is more than he had in transfer fees in 7 years - Had some of them not been frozen out by Megson and "moved on" cheaply, we might have done better.

[boltonboris]

We were better off financially with an older team of Galacticos finishing higher up the league.

We were until we had to replace half a team.

It wasn't half a team - you're not looking at the facts.

I am. We'd lost Okocha and never replaced him. Our midfield consisted of Nolan, Speed and Campo three players who were there before Jay Jay.

Really? Nolan and Campo? Yes. Speed? No

[BWFC_Insane]

I am. We'd lost Okocha and never replaced him. Our midfield consisted of Nolan, Speed and Campo three players who were there before Jay Jay.

Similar situation with Hierro. He came, did well for 12 games and walked off probably 3-4M richer. We never replaced him in the traditional sense.

Before he left Allardyce and then Lee were restricted mainly to frees because of the money spent on Anelka and because we hadn't sold any of our older players. Dzemailli (Campo/Jay Jay's replacement?), Michalik, Samuel, Cid, McCann (Hierro replacement?), Wilhelmsson, Braaten etc

Were brought in. That alone suggests to me that the strategy was not sustainable given the quality of players Allardyce/Lee turned to. Had we received a 5M fee for Jay Jay and a few million for Campo things might have been different.

Had Megson not been given that money to spend we'd have gone down, and I imagine that money was only made available because it absolutely had to be. For me a big part of the reason we're in so much debt now is because for 7 years Allardyce did not think about the future. We've hardly brough through any young players and his signings erred on the "experienced end". Don't get me wrong at the time having Jay Jay etc was great and the right thing for the club. But in the long run unless we buy and trade younger players and start producing some of our own our club isn't sustainable in the top flight. I think that much is obvious and one of the big reasons Coyle was picked for the job.

No you're not looking at the facts, you're looking to "blame Allardyce" for the ills of the world, as you usually do.

We'd lost Okocha and actually didn't need to replace him as we still managed to finish in a European spot without him. The previous season, he certainly hadn't been at his best and started less than half our games.

Hierro played just the one season for us (2004/5) making just 15 starts. That particular season our salary spend against our revenue was around 52% - nowhere near the 75% that it currently stands at and our 4th lowest since we've been in the Prem. I doubt we gave him 20% of our entire salary spend.

From the team Allardyce left, we sold Nolan (£4.5m?), Anelka (£15m?), Miete ( £2.5m), Diouf (£2.6m), TBH (who should have gone for a transfer but didn't) and (HP - not sure if he went on a free or not) - There's £25m recouped there, which is more than he had in transfer fees in 7 years - Had some of them not been frozen out by Megson and "moved on" cheaply, we might have done better.

We sold those players partly because we had to rebuild. Anelka fair enough, but that was always going to be the case if we did well. We made a loss of Dioufy and TBH and broke even more or less with Meite.

In his earlier days Allardyce did well moving players on and rebuilding from there. Eidur, Jensen and then a bit later Ricketts.

But we hardly got a fee for several seasons. And we had several places in the squad where a replacement was needed but the departing player left nothing in the pot so to speak. I'm not actually criticising Allardyce at the time they were the right things to do. We did well. There is no doubting we were left with a squad that was seriously struggling and was on relegation form for half a season under Sam and carried that on under Lee then Megson.

My point is not that Allardyce was wrong more that we shouldn't go back down that route currently, unless we absolutely have to.

The situation in the game has changed from even a few years back, clubs are spending more and more on wages, across the board. Blackburn were on something like 85% salary against revenue last financial report but one.

We'll have to agree to disagree I imagine.

[BWFC_Insane]

We were better off financially with an older team of Galacticos finishing higher up the league.

We were until we had to replace half a team.

It wasn't half a team - you're not looking at the facts.

I am. We'd lost Okocha and never replaced him. Our midfield consisted of Nolan, Speed and Campo three players who were there before Jay Jay.

Really? Nolan and Campo? Yes. Speed? No

Sorry I meant three players who were there before Jay Jay left!

[hisroyalgingerness]

Desai also told Sky Sports News that they were looking at a couple of other players. "We're thinking of getting Damien Duff back," she said.

Better and better!

I hope, and I'm assuming they're looking to build a championship-contending top club here, that they pursue Wayne Bridge and Shaun Wright-Phillips. Those two chumps always seem to end up where the money is.

Thing with all this is, I'm now more confused than ever as to why Allardyce was sacked?

[BWFC_Insane]

Desai also told Sky Sports News that they were looking at a couple of other players. "We're thinking of getting Damien Duff back," she said.

Better and better!

I hope, and I'm assuming they're looking to build a championship-contending top club here, that they pursue Wayne Bridge and Shaun Wright-Phillips. Those two chumps always seem to end up where the money is.

Thing with all this is, I'm now more confused than ever as to why Allardyce was sacked?

Ermm I should imagine because he wanted to sign his own players and do things his way. Apparently his list of targets was "not what the new owners were looking for". In other words not very expensive and risky Brazilian "marquee" signings.

Ronaldinho by all accounts is being tracked by the Indian owners and their "agency" who is advising them on football matters and the manager has no say either way! Oh and of course their "manager" happens to be a clinet of the "agency" advising the owners. Of course I that has nowt to do with it.

[ratbert]

This is Blackburn's Rivaldo moment, and will have a similar outcome.

[Zulus Thousand of em]

This is Blackburn's Rivaldo moment, and will have a similar outcome.

Agreed.

[Lofthouse Lower]

I like them.

[hisroyalgingerness]

Has Mr Glass-half-empty just patronised me? fecking hell, off the top of the cliff I go.

[P.O.S.]

He's agreed terms with Gremio I've heard, and AC Milan didn't receive any contact at all from Blackburn - according to Gabriel Marcotti