The Trotters v The Potters

[James B]

a tough game today and i didn't expect us to win. sounds like the performance was the most worrying thing about it.

even more worrying ,for me, is our form. and the way the league is at the moment. nobody should discount being dragged into a relegation scrap, but you could say the same for about 13 other clubs in the league.

next game is chelsea isn't it? won't get a bean from that.

[Worthy4England]

We've got a small squad and its showing.

Isn't this what happens to us every December/January as I predicted?

You can't get by without cover up front when Klasnic is out, or when we have no defensive cover whatsoever, and the midfield is equally sparse.

We need fresh legs to inject some life, Holden looked not quite fit today. If we had a decent option he'd not be playing IMO.

Muamba and Mark Davies are both equally shite IMO.

Knight is just going through an awful spell but again, we have nobody pushing him from the bench, no options to replace him. Big test for Coyle this, we can't go through January with the whole "we don't need players we'll not overpay" attitude if he wants to stay out of the bottom 7 or 8. If he's happy for a 14th place finish then fine but if we're striving for better than Megson did we're going to have to get some money spent and Coyle is going to have to make some big decisions and stop bottling it IMO!

Very good & accurate post BWFCI....at the moment our football on the pitch is not much different to how we played under Megson - lethargic & a slow tempo with plenty aimless hoofing thrown in (especially from Knight....), OC needs to now step up and make some brave big decisions, like dropping Jussi, KD & Taylor and try hard to bring in the 'elusive' quality pacy creative midfielder (how many times has that been said over the past few years !!), IMO we can't continue to play Elmander & KD upfront, we desperately need variety & pace up front to give opposing defenders something to think about, at the moment we are very predicatable....

OC rightly took the praise & enjoyed the support from the fans when we were playing well, but he now should accept some of the blame for this awful spell and changes need to be made & new faces brought in asap

Jaysus wept.

Why drop Jussi? Although it's something you've argued for for ages so one day it'll come true. What did he do today that cost us? Yes he made a gaffe coming for a couple of balls into the box, but nowt that cost us and on another day, might have kept both goals out.

Elmo and KD are still up there this season, as a partnership, with the best of them. Arsenal's 2 highest scorers Nasi and Chamakh have the same number of goals between them, with far better supply than Davo and Elmander generally get. City's top 2 scorers have managed 1 more between them. Since the Newcastle game, Davo's bagged 2 and Elmander 1 - why not drop him instead, other than Davo is another of your bugbears? I don't think either of them are playing great at the minute.

If you'd have offered me 30 points at the start of the season by the end of January, I'd have snatched your hand off, so I'm not sure what we're "blaming" anyone for - even though we've been playing poorly for 6 weeks. Had we been 12th for most of the season, we'd have probably seen it as a gradual improvement, but because we had a great November, everyone's getting fecking nosebleeds and expecting it to continue, like our squad can play like £30m players constantly.

Get a grip - and I still think we're in for a tough next 2 months as well....

[Athers]

Didn't play well, it was windy as feck - add in a crap pitch and there was probably only one winner today............






BUT I WOULDN'T WANT TO WATCH THAT EVERY WEEK

[Armchair Wanderer]

I didn't see the game today but away at Stoke was never going to be a W with our recent performances. It's disappointing that this was the first defeat by more than the odd goal since Arsenal away. In the games I've been to this year we always start off really badly, then after the halftime teamtalk they normally come out better in the second half. So how the game goes depends on if we went behind in the first half.

It would be good to get some fresh faces in, maybe loans, but realistically we're not going to be spending the big bucks. Hopefully Chungy comes back fit in a few weeks. The Chelsea game is looking tricky all of a sudden but Wolves at home is do-able. We need the 40 points before Citeh on the last game, please.

[BWFC_Insane]

We've got a small squad and its showing.

Isn't this what happens to us every December/January as I predicted?

You can't get by without cover up front when Klasnic is out, or when we have no defensive cover whatsoever, and the midfield is equally sparse.

We need fresh legs to inject some life, Holden looked not quite fit today. If we had a decent option he'd not be playing IMO.

Muamba and Mark Davies are both equally shite IMO.

Knight is just going through an awful spell but again, we have nobody pushing him from the bench, no options to replace him. Big test for Coyle this, we can't go through January with the whole "we don't need players we'll not overpay" attitude if he wants to stay out of the bottom 7 or 8. If he's happy for a 14th place finish then fine but if we're striving for better than Megson did we're going to have to get some money spent and Coyle is going to have to make some big decisions and stop bottling it IMO!

Very good & accurate post BWFCI....at the moment our football on the pitch is not much different to how we played under Megson - lethargic & a slow tempo with plenty aimless hoofing thrown in (especially from Knight....), OC needs to now step up and make some brave big decisions, like dropping Jussi, KD & Taylor and try hard to bring in the 'elusive' quality pacy creative midfielder (how many times has that been said over the past few years !!), IMO we can't continue to play Elmander & KD upfront, we desperately need variety & pace up front to give opposing defenders something to think about, at the moment we are very predicatable....

OC rightly took the praise & enjoyed the support from the fans when we were playing well, but he now should accept some of the blame for this awful spell and changes need to be made & new faces brought in asap

Jaysus wept.

Why drop Jussi? Although it's something you've argued for for ages so one day it'll come true. What did he do today that cost us? Yes he made a gaffe coming for a couple of balls into the box, but nowt that cost us and on another day, might have kept both goals out.

Elmo and KD are still up there this season, as a partnership, with the best of them. Arsenal's 2 highest scorers Nasi and Chamakh have the same number of goals between them, with far better supply than Davo and Elmander generally get. City's top 2 scorers have managed 1 more between them. Since the Newcastle game, Davo's bagged 2 and Elmander 1 - why not drop him instead, other than Davo is another of your bugbears? I don't think either of them are playing great at the minute.

If you'd have offered me 30 points at the start of the season by the end of January, I'd have snatched your hand off, so I'm not sure what we're "blaming" anyone for - even though we've been playing poorly for 6 weeks. Had we been 12th for most of the season, we'd have probably seen it as a gradual improvement, but because we had a great November, everyone's getting fecking nosebleeds and expecting it to continue, like our squad can play like £30m players constantly.

Get a grip - and I still think we're in for a tough next 2 months as well....

Agree with that W4E. People are getting carried away.

Dropping Jussi, Taylor and KD is just reactionary nonsense.

Taylor>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Petrov this season.

We need some fresh legs now though to freshen things up, I'm sure most agree with that!

[Peter Thompson]

We've got a small squad and its showing.

Isn't this what happens to us every December/January as I predicted?

You can't get by without cover up front when Klasnic is out, or when we have no defensive cover whatsoever, and the midfield is equally sparse.

We need fresh legs to inject some life, Holden looked not quite fit today. If we had a decent option he'd not be playing IMO.

Muamba and Mark Davies are both equally shite IMO.

Knight is just going through an awful spell but again, we have nobody pushing him from the bench, no options to replace him. Big test for Coyle this, we can't go through January with the whole "we don't need players we'll not overpay" attitude if he wants to stay out of the bottom 7 or 8. If he's happy for a 14th place finish then fine but if we're striving for better than Megson did we're going to have to get some money spent and Coyle is going to have to make some big decisions and stop bottling it IMO!

Very good & accurate post BWFCI....at the moment our football on the pitch is not much different to how we played under Megson - lethargic & a slow tempo with plenty aimless hoofing thrown in (especially from Knight....), OC needs to now step up and make some brave big decisions, like dropping Jussi, KD & Taylor and try hard to bring in the 'elusive' quality pacy creative midfielder (how many times has that been said over the past few years !!), IMO we can't continue to play Elmander & KD upfront, we desperately need variety & pace up front to give opposing defenders something to think about, at the moment we are very predicatable....

OC rightly took the praise & enjoyed the support from the fans when we were playing well, but he now should accept some of the blame for this awful spell and changes need to be made & new faces brought in asap

Jaysus wept.

Why drop Jussi? Although it's something you've argued for for ages so one day it'll come true. What did he do today that cost us? Yes he made a gaffe coming for a couple of balls into the box, but nowt that cost us and on another day, might have kept both goals out.

Elmo and KD are still up there this season, as a partnership, with the best of them. Arsenal's 2 highest scorers Nasi and Chamakh have the same number of goals between them, with far better supply than Davo and Elmander generally get. City's top 2 scorers have managed 1 more between them. Since the Newcastle game, Davo's bagged 2 and Elmander 1 - why not drop him instead, other than Davo is another of your bugbears? I don't think either of them are playing great at the minute.

If you'd have offered me 30 points at the start of the season by the end of January, I'd have snatched your hand off, so I'm not sure what we're "blaming" anyone for - even though we've been playing poorly for 6 weeks. Had we been 12th for most of the season, we'd have probably seen it as a gradual improvement, but because we had a great November, everyone's getting fecking nosebleeds and expecting it to continue, like our squad can play like £30m players constantly.

Get a grip - and I still think we're in for a tough next 2 months as well....

Get a grip WTF ! - bloody hell I've been away for a while, come back and make a few comments and still get shit from you....have you read my posts, they are not suicidal, I never went OTT earlier in the season either....for what its worth its just my opinion (is that ok am I not entitled to an opinion or do I need to agree with you). i'll say it again Jussi is not the keeper he was and IMO he's past it and costs us to many points, I totally agree that Elmander & KD have done well in the early part of the season, but they have struggled in the past 6-7 games, and I happen to think we need more variety & pace up front.

[newboy]

we were getting carried away with all the talk of europe i'ts back to reality as someone said earlier we're to soft we need to start mixing it a bit and start grinding out a few hard fought results at the moment if we don't score we get beat.
jussi's not the keeper he was and needs dropping, can't kick useless on crosses and doesn't command is area. skd could do with a seat on the bench now and then it's to easy to hoof it forward to him.
moreno is hungry and could definitely do with a few starts having him up front with mandy when lucy comes back could be interesting
another holden to go with the one we've got would be brilliant for mid field.
wheater's looking value for money at the moment even if it's just to shake knight up.
but all said and done this is still megsons team and we're still better of points and goal wise than we ever were with him at this point of the season.
let's have a good go at chelsea nobody's expecting anything from the game so we can afford to go for it who knows? it might pay off get us all dreaming again.

[Peter Thompson]

we were getting carried away with all the talk of europe i'ts back to reality as someone said earlier we're to soft we need to start mixing it a bit and start grinding out a few hard fought results at the moment if we don't score we get beat.
jussi's not the keeper he was and needs dropping, can't kick useless on crosses and doesn't command is area. skd could do with a seat on the bench now and then it's to easy to hoof it forward to him.
moreno is hungry and could definitely do with a few starts having him up front with mandy when lucy comes back could be interesting
another holden to go with the one we've got would be brilliant for mid field.
wheater's looking value for money at the moment even if it's just to shake knight up.
but all said and done this is still megsons team and we're still better of points and goal wise than we ever were with him at this point of the season.
let's have a good go at chelsea nobody's expecting anything from the game so we can afford to go for it who knows? it might pay off get us all dreaming again.

Get a grip....you can't say things like that about any of our players

Without the likes of Jussi, Taylor & KD we would not be where we are today and just because they are going through a bad patch doesn't mean we should drop them to the bench. lets just wait another 4 or 5 games they are bound to have a good game soon !

[newboy]

we were getting carried away with all the talk of europe i'ts back to reality as someone said earlier we're to soft we need to start mixing it a bit and start grinding out a few hard fought results at the moment if we don't score we get beat.
jussi's not the keeper he was and needs dropping, can't kick useless on crosses and doesn't command is area. skd could do with a seat on the bench now and then it's to easy to hoof it forward to him.
moreno is hungry and could definitely do with a few starts having him up front with mandy when lucy comes back could be interesting
another holden to go with the one we've got would be brilliant for mid field.
wheater's looking value for money at the moment even if it's just to shake knight up.
but all said and done this is still megsons team and we're still better of points and goal wise than we ever were with him at this point of the season.
let's have a good go at chelsea nobody's expecting anything from the game so we can afford to go for it who knows? it might pay off get us all dreaming again.

Get a grip....you can't say things like that about any of our players

Without the likes of Jussi, Taylor & KD we would not be where we are today and just because they are going through a bad patch doesn't mean we should drop them to the bench. lets just wait another 4 or 5 games they are bound to have a good game soon !

O.K.

[TANGODANCER]

I really must see things too simple. The reason we lost is because we've become predictable and managers have sussed us out. No, KD didn't have any joy; how can he when he's go two or three defenders around him every time he's in the opposition half. We were man marked to disraction and hustled off the ball, and the only way to answer that is either have the skill to beat your man or stretch them by moving around. How many times today was ther a cluster of blue shirts in a space as big as a telephone box? How many times did three players tackle one of theirs who simply knocked it into ample space. Elmander is playing way too deep to get near any flick-ons that Davies wins and there's nobody else in sight.

There are never seven of their attackers in our box, so why do we need more than seven defenders in there constantly getting in each others way? Let Taylor/Petrov and Moreno defend as far as just inside our half and KD/Elmander stay up there around the half-way line. At least we'd have a remote chance of picking up some balls booted endlessly (mindlessly?) out of our box insted of giving them right back to the opposition. Jussi looks for Davies, even hits him, for what, when he has no support? Both Davis and Emander need to be around the box to be effective and defenders occupied with supporting players. It isn't happening.

Okay, it all sounds too simple, but we spend far too much time defending. We lost to a freak accident goal cause by too many cooks around the pot and a penalty that was one inch away from being saved. Did we ever lok threatening till the subs were made? If we did, I must have missed it. It's ours system that needs change, not so much the players.

[Worthy4England]

Get a grip WTF ! - bloody hell I've been away for a while, come back and make a few comments and still get shit from you....have you read my posts, they are not suicidal, I never went OTT earlier in the season either....for what its worth its just my opinion (is that ok am I not entitled to an opinion or do I need to agree with you). i'll say it again Jussi is not the keeper he was and IMO he's past it and costs us to many points, I totally agree that Elmander & KD have done well in the early part of the season, but they have struggled in the past 6-7 games, and I happen to think we need more variety & pace up front.

If I hadn't read your posts, how do you think I managed to respond to them? Hmmm maybe I've only responded to this one recently.

No you're not allowed an opinion - especially if you don't agree with me. (Am I not allowed a contrary opinion saying I might disagree with you?)

I didn't say your posts were suicidal, but you're looking at dropping 3 players for who and blaming Coyle for what exactly - we're still in 7th place at the minute? The three players you're dropping are three of the players that got us to 30 points in the first place. Which variety and pace are you bringing in up front and why drop Davo as opposed to Elmander, they've both lost a bit of edge since the Newcastle game?

Looking at the last 6-7 games, we normally lose to Blackburn at home, haven't beaten Liverpool for ages (not even drawn with them), not beaten Chelsea for ages, City away is no push over, Sunderland have lost 1 at home this year. So yes they've been a few tricky fixtures. There's a few more coming up too - so I wouldn't be surprised if it got worse before it got better - will we carry on dropping people and make use of our full squad do you think? Or maybe we have the best 11 we're currently capable of fielding out on the pitch...

[Worthy4England]

we were getting carried away with all the talk of europe i'ts back to reality as someone said earlier we're to soft we need to start mixing it a bit and start grinding out a few hard fought results at the moment if we don't score we get beat.
jussi's not the keeper he was and needs dropping, can't kick useless on crosses and doesn't command is area. skd could do with a seat on the bench now and then it's to easy to hoof it forward to him.
moreno is hungry and could definitely do with a few starts having him up front with mandy when lucy comes back could be interesting
another holden to go with the one we've got would be brilliant for mid field.
wheater's looking value for money at the moment even if it's just to shake knight up.
but all said and done this is still megsons team and we're still better of points and goal wise than we ever were with him at this point of the season.
let's have a good go at chelsea nobody's expecting anything from the game so we can afford to go for it who knows? it might pay off get us all dreaming again.

Get a grip....you can't say things like that about any of our players

Without the likes of Jussi, Taylor & KD we would not be where we are today and just because they are going through a bad patch doesn't mean we should drop them to the bench. lets just wait another 4 or 5 games they are bound to have a good game soon !

We don't have another Holden at the moment, nor do we have a Wheater. You still haven't said who you're dropping Taylor and KD for? I don't object to players being dropped - but it helps to replace them with someone better than they're currently playing - otherwise it sort of defeats the object.

[Il Pirate]

I really must see things too simple. The reason we lost is because we've become predictable and managers have sussed us out. No, KD didn't have any joy; how can he when he's go two or three defenders around him every time he's in the opposition half. We were man marked to disraction and hustled off the ball, and the only way to answer that is either have the skill to beat your man or stretch them by moving around. How many times today was ther a cluster of blue shirts in a space as big as a telephone box? How many times did three players tackle one of theirs who simply knocked it into ample space. Elmander is playing way too deep to get near any flick-ons that Davies wins and there's nobody else in sight.

There are never seven of their attackers in our box, so why do we need more than seven defenders in there constantly getting in each others way? Let Taylor/Petrov and Moreno defend as far as just inside our half and KD/Elmander stay up there around the half-way line. At least we'd have a remote chance of picking up some balls booted endlessly (mindlessly?) out of our box insted of giving them right back to the opposition. Jussi looks for Davies, even hits him, for what, when he has no support? Both Davis and Emander need to be around the box to be effective and defenders occupied with supporting players. It isn't happening.

Okay, it all sounds too simple, but we spend far too much time defending. We lost to a freak accident goal cause by too many cooks around the pot and a penalty that was one inch away from being saved. Did we ever lok threatening till the subs were made? If we did, I must have missed it. It's ours system that needs change, not so much the players.

well said TD. I saw an article today where Pulis said " everything they do goes through KD. He's the talisman, if we can stop him we can stop Bolton"

[Peter Thompson]

Ok here goes....

Its not just Jussi, KD & Taylor who have got us to 30 points, and I've always said Taylor's a very limited poor player which IMO he certainly consistantly is, Jussi & KD are both around the 34/35 mark in terms of age, and however much you love & idolise them everyone's time comes to an end....and in my opinion Jussi's most certainly has, and KD's is fastly approaching.

Why not Elmander is a fair question, I just happen to believe that at this moment in their careers Elmander has more ability and movement and would be more effective if we played more on the floor (which we do whenever KD doesn't play), 2nd half today we played better because we played on the deck and spread the ball wide, with Davies in the side it gives the players an excuse to aimlessly hoof the ball towards him more in hope than expectation.

Believe me I'm very happy at this moment in time to sit 7th, and would take 10th / 11th at the end of the season....but to the un blinkered its obvious that we have over achieved with this group of players, and I can't see an improvement any time soon unless OC can sign at least 2 new players capable of slotting in straight away...therefore why sit still and continue to play shit and lose points, surely even you can see that we still lack pace, creativity & movement and as I've said many times before once KD retires we will be forced into playing more football on the deck.

And finally, again its only my opinion I honestly do believe that Jussi is becoming a liability

[closed sphincter]

we need lcy back...

he was doing pretty well against Austrailia yesterday

[Choppers]

I'd love to know who we're dropping these players for...

Perhaps we should give Blake a run up front instead of Davo? How about Petrov, then maybe we can truly get battered down the wings.

feck sake, what a knee-jerk load of nonsense. All because we lost to a really strong Stoke team at home.

We're not playing well, but right now, that squad is the best we can put out.

[thebish]

Without the likes of Jussi, Taylor & KD we would not be where we are today and just because they are going through a bad patch doesn't mean we should drop them to the bench. lets just wait another 4 or 5 games they are bound to have a good game soon !

with the assumption that this is sarcasm rather than a sudden volte-face..

for today's game - what would your starting lineup have been without Jussi, Taylor and KD?

are you picking an injured Klasnic - or a fatty Blake - or partnering Elmo with Rodrigo - or playing Elmo up front on his own?

and - are you recalling Al Habsi (probably not possible) or making Bogdan No.1 keeper.

are you playing Petrov instead of Taylor - if so - with what justification?

[Worthy4England]

Ok here goes....

Its not just Jussi, KD & Taylor who have got us to 30 points, and I've always said Taylor's a very limited poor player which IMO he certainly consistantly is, Jussi & KD are both around the 34/35 mark in terms of age, and however much you love & idolise them everyone's time comes to an end....and in my opinion Jussi's most certainly has, and KD's is fastly approaching.

Why not Elmander is a fair question, I just happen to believe that at this moment in their careers Elmander has more ability and movement and would be more effective if we played more on the floor (which we do whenever KD doesn't play), 2nd half today we played better because we played on the deck and spread the ball wide, with Davies in the side it gives the players an excuse to aimlessly hoof the ball towards him more in hope than expectation.

Believe me I'm very happy at this moment in time to sit 7th, and would take 10th / 11th at the end of the season....but to the un blinkered its obvious that we have over achieved with this group of players, and I can't see an improvement any time soon unless OC can sign at least 2 new players capable of slotting in straight away...therefore why sit still and continue to play shit and lose points, surely even you can see that we still lack pace, creativity & movement and as I've said many times before once KD retires we will be forced into playing more football on the deck.

And finally, again its only my opinion I honestly do believe that Jussi is becoming a liability

So, looking at this, our whole team was well marshalled today and we didn't have a response. A few seasons back - the season before he bagged 11 - I was in the "time to move him on" camp, so nothing to do with idolatry. That said, I think barring the last 6/7 games, when being honest the whole team has looked no great shakes, Davo has played decent both in the air and on the deck - he's put some great through balls into Elmander. He isn't going to start running and terrifying defenders and he is getting slower each season. But he's bagged 7 (albeit 4 from pens - as I said about Taylor last season, you still have to score them) - even 3 still puts him in good company and when you look down the list of people with 3 and then look at their assist tally, none of them are higher than Davo on assists - regardless of their pace, creativity or movement. So yes look at a replacement by all means, but they're going to have to be better and to be honest, you're probably going to have to wait a while longer.

We don't have anyone on the bench knocking at the door to replace either Davo or Elmo at the moment so his replacement (I notice you still haven't answered) is going to be whom?

Jussi - He too will get replaced sometime - but you appear to want to shunt him out of the door (and a bit like Davo, have done since he hit the wrong side of 30). At the minute, he's still over halfway up the Prem League rankings (8th) - Al Habs isn't in the top 10. Similar to Davo, he isn't suddenly going to start taking control of his box like Peter Schmeichel nor start kicking straight. Then again, I've not noticed him throwing them into the net like England's number 1 either - other than that one against Liverpool.

Taylor - gets back in, quite rightly, because Petrov's a lazy feck. No doubt who's the more talented footballer, but you have to look at all aspects and Petrov leaves Robinson exposed too often.

So with all of them the argument still stands - who are you replacing them with? I've no idea if Bogdan is any better than Jussi at the moment, we could give Petrov a go in front of Taylor, we could switch Davo (or Elmander) for Rodrigo or Blake. Not sure any or all of those switches would have made any difference over a full 90 minutes today.

West Brom had plenty of pace, creativity and movement last time they were in the Prem (IIRC) - didn't help 'em much.

[wanderers_on_tour]

Some of the criticism on here is an absolute joke. just got back from the game and what i saw was a number of tired players who weren't as sharp as earlier in the season, mainly due to the fixture congestion, and as such weren't getting the rub of the green as we were pre-christmas. The conditions today and the quality of the pitch today was shocking and favoured Stoke, the masters of scrappy goals like the first we conceded. If a bunch of fans on a forum can all agree on the fact Bolton need cover then i'm 100% confident Owen and his staff feel the same..unlike them though we have no idea of available budgets (although it sounds to be minimal) or other factors behind closed doors such as who is/isn't for sale. In the year Coyle has been in charge I feel we finally have a top table starting XI when completely fit and just need a few tweaks to cover certain positions and prepare a more long-term plan. Anyone who says 'the manager has lost his touch' or any such thing is an idiot in my opinion and although January has/will continue to be a hard month im very confident about the rest of the season!

[William the White]

A cold and windy day at a horrible stadium built to make watching football an uncomfortable experience.

We are in a mini-slump, no question, with players who looked tired in the first half resorting to long ball hit and hope. Once more we were better in the second half, and Owen's subs helped improve it a touch.

Knight's concession of a penalty (almost saved) put the game effectively out of reach on a day we spent too much time out of touch.

At the end Holden limped off with an icebag strapped to his ankle (not good news) and, if Cahill was making a farewell gesture when he gave his shirt to a young kid as he left the pitch we may have more bad news to come.

Stoke are no good, by the way. But good enough to beat us on today's performance.