Today I'm angry about.....

[Bruce Rioja]

Sorry. Why is it that they're having to make them, again?

[Harry Genshaw]

Sorry. Why is it that they're having to make them, again?

I assume it's Gordon Browns fault? I notice the banks in Ireland are asking for another £42billion to keep afloat. What was he thinking?

[William the White]

Sorry. Why is it that they're having to make them, again?

I know - I also believe in a levy on the banks to support a huge push on democratisation of the arts...

Glad to be on the same side...

[Lord Kangana]

I can see there'll be tears before bedtime here, but anyway....

Whilst not gainsaying your general principal Harry (its widely accepted that the banking crisis begat a sovereign debt crisis), I must take issue over Gordon Brown's complicity.

He did, after all, de-regulate the banks, and introduced self regulation, and the stupid FSA. Amongst other things.

Starngely enough, the Tories have picked the one stick that they really have no grounds to beat him with, namely his spending. Again, its widely accepted they would have done the same. What I can't quite fathom is why they haven't made more of what he actually did do wrong.

[William the White]

I can see there'll be tears before bedtime here, but anyway....

Whilst not gainsaying your general principal Harry (its widely accepted that the banking crisis begat a sovereign debt crisis), I must take issue over Gordon Brown's complicity.

He did, after all, de-regulate the banks, and introduced self regulation, and the stupid FSA. Amongst other things.

Starngely enough, the Tories have picked the one stick that they really have no grounds to beat him with, namely his spending. Again, its widely accepted they would have done the same. What I can't quite fathom is why they haven't made more of what he actually did do wrong.

Because they were demanding ever more deregulation every centimetre of the way?

could be that simple?

[Lord Kangana]

Its possible William, but I'm not convinced. I've a feeling we'll find out in phase 2 of this government. There is a reckoning with the financial services coming, I can feel it. It depends whether they are keeping their powder dry in time for their actions (and their Labour predecessors) to be remembered for the next election, or whether they'll fudge the issue. I'm inclined to the former, but I have a latent mistrust of politicians so it may be the latter.

[thebish]

Sorry. Why is it that they're having to make them, again?

they do not have to make them.

[William the White]

Sorry. Why is it that they're having to make them, again?

they do not have to make them.

Start the thread - why not? It's going to be the political debate...

[Dujon]

On a non-political wing of the damned: Yesterday I received an e-mail from a Chinese company for which I have served as a service centre for many years advising me that my services are no longer required due to its core business being diverted to other fields. Whilst I'm not really angry (as I knew that it was inevitable) I was very disappointed with the phrase 'effective immediately'. Basically the retainer paid for my grog, cigarettes, petrol, Internet access and satellite TV, thus leaving my pension for normal living expenses.

Something has to go. I'm not a happy chappy at the moment.

[BWFC_Insane]

Sorry. Why is it that they're having to make them, again?

they do not have to make them.

Start the thread - why not? It's going to be the political debate...

I've yet to hear an economist say that the cuts are absolutely necessary. In fact most argue against them, especially in the way they're being carried out.

The fact that out of all "Westernised" countries we had one of the lowest deficits by GDP yet are making the most radical and deep cuts makes you sit up and think. Added to the fact that in the past 30 years we've effectively never been out of deficit and you wonder.

I'm no economic expert so you can only listen to those that are. Its easy for doommongers to point to Greece and say "thas us if we don't do this". But like I say every expert I've heard has said that is absolutely not the case.

So it brings me to the inevitable conclusion that the cuts are in fact politically motivated rather than out of necessity!

[superjohnmcginlay]

Sorry. Why is it that they're having to make them, again?

they do not have to make them.

Start the thread - why not? It's going to be the political debate...

Well they don't have to do anything but they think it's the right course of action. The Labour party were up for taking a fairly hefty axe to things as well so for them to sit on the sidelines going "tories, nasty, cuts blah blah blah" doesn't help.
I think most people are up for listening to sensible alternative ideas. Like this AV malarky, it's not being put across very well.

[BWFC_Insane]

Sorry. Why is it that they're having to make them, again?

they do not have to make them.

Start the thread - why not? It's going to be the political debate...

Well they don't have to do anything but they think it's the right course of action. The Labour party were up for taking a fairly hefty axe to things as well so for them to sit on the sidelines going "tories, nasty, cuts blah blah blah" doesn't help.
I think most people are up for listening to sensible alternative ideas. Like this AV malarky, it's not being put across very well.

Aye but the big difference is Labours plan was to cut slower and more strategically with the idea being that should growth increase then cuts would be scaled back.

The Tories plan is just to cut deep, quickly and prioritise reducing the deficit over any other strategic thought.

There is a difference. And the key to it is how important the deficit/lack of actually is.

[superjohnmcginlay]

Sorry. Why is it that they're having to make them, again?

they do not have to make them.

Start the thread - why not? It's going to be the political debate...

Well they don't have to do anything but they think it's the right course of action. The Labour party were up for taking a fairly hefty axe to things as well so for them to sit on the sidelines going "tories, nasty, cuts blah blah blah" doesn't help.
I think most people are up for listening to sensible alternative ideas. Like this AV malarky, it's not being put across very well.

Aye but the big difference is Labours plan was to cut slower and more strategically with the idea being that should growth increase then cuts would be scaled back.

The Tories plan is just to cut deep, quickly and prioritise reducing the deficit over any other strategic thought.

There is a difference. And the key to it is how important the deficit/lack of actually is.

Yeah I've heard this countless times. Bit vague though isn't it? What? Who? When? That's what we need. Somebody asked on question time "why don't the labour party produce a shadow budget?" That Abbot woman dismissed it very quickly.

[BWFC_Insane]

Yeah I've heard this countless times. Bit vague though isn't it? What? Who? When? That's what we need. Somebody asked on question time "why don't the labour party produce a shadow budget?" That Abbot woman dismissed it very quickly.

Well the Tories plans changed significantly from manifesto to power in several areas. Before the election Labour had explained as clearly as anyone else what their plans were.

Now the Condems are in power and Ed is in charge of Labour I think its less clear. BUT of course they have time to formulate their own plans before the next election. They are opposition and its their place to counter argue at this moment in time rather than necessarily lay out every single detail. Lets face it if the Tories followed the policy they had 3/4 years ago it would be totally different to whats happening now. Plans and detail are bound to change.

[superjohnmcginlay]

Yeah I've heard this countless times. Bit vague though isn't it? What? Who? When? That's what we need. Somebody asked on question time "why don't the labour party produce a shadow budget?" That Abbot woman dismissed it very quickly.

Well the Tories plans changed significantly from manifesto to power in several areas. Before the election Labour had explained as clearly as anyone else what their plans were.

Now the Condems are in power and Ed is in charge of Labour I think its less clear. BUT of course they have time to formulate their own plans before the next election. They are opposition and its their place to counter argue at this moment in time rather than necessarily lay out every single detail. Lets face it if the Tories followed the policy they had 3/4 years ago it would be totally different to whats happening now. Plans and detail are bound to change.

But Darling didn't specify the what and when. Which we now have and it's causing quite a lot of bother as expected. I doubt it would have been much different under a Labour govt.

[bobo the clown]

I was sure we used to have a politics thread.

I'll go look .....

[Lord Kangana]

But are you angry with that?

[bobo the clown]

But are you angry with that?

No, it's a good thing. It means subjects like the ones above have place of their own.

I'm angry that this, quite different thread is regularly hijacked by items which should be in that thread.

[William the White]

But are you angry with that?

No, it's a good thing. It means subjects like the ones above have place of their own.

I'm angry that this, quite different thread is regularly hijacked by items which should be in that thread.

Politics have been known to make people angry...

[Athers]

Sorry. Why is it that they're having to make them, again?

they do not have to make them.

Start the thread - why not? It's going to be the political debate...

I've yet to hear an economist say that the cuts are absolutely necessary. In fact most argue against them, especially in the way they're being carried out.

The fact that out of all "Westernised" countries we had one of the lowest deficits by GDP yet are making the most radical and deep cuts makes you sit up and think. Added to the fact that in the past 30 years we've effectively never been out of deficit and you wonder.

I'm no economic expert so you can only listen to those that are. Its easy for doommongers to point to Greece and say "thas us if we don't do this". But like I say every expert I've heard has said that is absolutely not the case.

So it brings me to the inevitable conclusion that the cuts are in fact politically motivated rather than out of necessity!

Budget deficits at the moment according to the Economist Intelligence Unit

US 8.8%
China 1.7%
Japan 7.9%
Germany 0.5%
Britain 9%
France 6.4%
Greece 8.1%
Spain 6.7%

Of course debt is another matter, depends if you're talking just public where we're actually doing OK vs the G7, although it's heading north and if we were to do nothing it would shoot past 100% and keep on going, not to mention our cost of borrowing new money would go up and credit rating down.



Anyway just wanted to stick a few figures up... There's a lot more in OBR reports and the budget forecasts themselves but it's all a bit dry!